| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous Rating: |
There is a lot of scattered and non consistant information out there regarding DLP projectors and stereo. Some people have got certain dlp projectors working with shutterglasses (Active Stereo). Others have got two projectors working taking advantage of polorised viewing glasses, polorised filters on each projector and a screen that preserves this effect (Passive Stereo). I'd be happy to set up a web site to collate this information into one place, because many DLP projectors are now c£600 and cheaper second hand large screen gaming is close to the budgets of people considering high end LCDs for gaming. If people have these types of set ups working could they post their details in this thread so that we can give the community one source for those looking for this information. Lets try not to debate the 'flicker' or 'ghosting' just keep it to the hard facts. On the Active side I would suggest: Type of shutter glasses Video card, op system and driver Refresh rate Projector Any special projector settings Flicker and Ghosting - Unbarable, bareable, comfortable, non existent On the passive side I would sugget: Source of glasses Source of filters Source of screen (if DIY what materials) Video Card, op system and Drivers Refreash rate Projectors Any special projector settings Flicker and Ghosting - Unbarable, bareable, comfortable, non existent Please don't post that this doesn't work. There are too many posts on too many other forums by people who have had success and whoes perception of flicker with shutter glasses has been that of a 50hz TV...which for them has been fine... Or has no one / very few people really done this? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Join the rest of us and find out for yourself. Sooner or later it is an educated leap of faith. It all depends on your expectations. I am one of the "it works" X1 projector/ x3d Glasses, software/ Nvidia Drivers and 128Mb Card. some ghosting but nothing too bad. 60hz. Native resolution 800X600. Good Luck. If you are not happy you still have one heck of a home entertainment projector. X1 can be had for less than $900. | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
O.K. Let me add some inputs. My setups are optimzied for quality not for price. Active: Glasses - NuVision 60 GX NSR Cards - Quadro 2 (HW craked GF 2), Quadro 2 MMX (HW craked GF 2 MMX), Quadro 750 XGL, Quadro 3000 FX (software cracked GF FX 5900 Ultra). Drivers do not play any rule - a lot of combination works. Quadro support both game active stereoscopy and profesional modes .... Refresh rate - it unfortunately works ony on 60 Hz. Any other refresh rate produce projector desync. Projectors: InFocus X1 InFocus LP 650 Comments: it is sometimes neccesary to play with projector setting randomly to catch the sync. Flickering at 60 Hz is non-acceptable hi. Ghosting is abslulte zero. Passive: Glasses: Amercian paper optics - www.3dlglassesonline.com - O.K. for anything Filters: - I use standard linear polarizers for photoaparates - available from any photo shop Source of screen: I was experimenting with paintiong of aluminium spray on white colored wood desk. The quality is not acceptable - hot spots, partial depolarization, low gain. But it is a cheap material for first experiments. Just now I am testing the SilverFabric http://www.silverfabric.com product. I had seen several Stewart materials in action - good as well. Video cards - see above. Refresh rate - 100 or 120 Hz. it does not play a rule. Projectors: Wide range of Christie LCD and InFocus/NEC DLP projectors. Long list ... Notice: Non acceptable ghosting, low gain on the aluminum-painted screen. To low contrast from LCD projetors (non suitable e.g. from line graphic visaulisation). General notice - perfect screen material is key to success. No flicker at all , visible ghosting for bright objects on dark background - this situtation must be avoided. You should put on your WWW some automatic table for filling up - writting all information in a text is not very comfortable. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Nice topic. One questrion from new comer - does it mean that some projectors can work at 100-120 HZ, which means 60HZ per eye, which you mean not aceptable? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob here. I kicked this off. X1 Annonymous thanks for sharing. Leaps of faith are ok for some and yes "some" information is scattered across 4 or 5 different forums - I've found it and read it. The idea is to collate it in one place. That way more people will have confidence and the information to try this and as projector prices continue to fall more people will. MH have read a lot of your posts and thank you for your contributions to the community. What I will try to do is set this out in a table on one of the 'free' sites. I'll basically use this and similar threads I've set up in other forums to fish for factual information that is usable. Annonymous. All dlp projectors work at 60Hz internally so the input refresh rate is stepped down which interfers with ACTIVE (shutterglass) stereo. 60Hz of flicker is acceptable to some....lets face it TVs ususally are 50Hz..and I can remember when 70Hz was great on a 14inch monitor! Thanks again guys. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob again! This from another forum by a guy whoes Nick is xkiter: Infocus X1 DLP Projector EDimensional Glasses nVidia 5700 (Running @ 60 mhz for projection) No specific resolution although I generally use 800x600. Need the E-D Activator to Re-Sync glasses as sometimes depth is reversed (left image seen by right eye and right image seen by left eye). This can be downloaded from the eDimensional website. Works absolutely flawless for NFS: Underground. Brighter games (ie Nascar Thunder 2k4 and Unreal Championship 2k4) show a slight flicker that is barely noticeable. The X1 is a relatively low priced projector that produces a fantastic picture. I would also recommend using the projector upside down. There is an option to flip the image vertically. By doing this, you can project an image on a wall and sit directly in front of it while the image is projected over your head. Using the projector right side up requires you to project the image a bit higher if you wish to sit directly in front of it otherwise you would cast a shadow over the image. Hope it helps. Thanks xkiter | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Answer: No common projektor works in stereo at 120 Hz. They can sync only at 60 Hz = 30 Hz per eye = non acceptable 9as already mentioned). Christie Digital Mirage 3 chip DLP projetors work at 120 Hz - but the price is 20 000$ and higer. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I guess if you owned a DLP projector then you would be able to make an informed judgement regarding it's stereo capabilities. I believe this thread is dedicated to those that own and use their projector for stereoscopic viewing as MANY of us do. It would seem that the X1 is the lowest cost choice for DLP projectors. BenQ has come out with a new 1024x768, 2200 lumen, 2000:1 projector that can be had for as little as $1525 US. I'm in the upstate of South Carolina. If your in the area and are considering a projector purchase then come on over and check mine out so you can decide for yourself if it's worth the investment. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
setup a portable LP130 infocus and a projector from work, both DLP. aligned them, found a silver screen from the salvation army (5 bucks). nvidia 4400Ti agp dual video out card. Nvidia drivers (56.64 i think). works great for most directX games. works great for 3D movies (page-flipped). bought the polarizing lens online for cheap (approx 25 bucks, included glasses). easy setup other than aligning the projectors. -cbrack at myrealbox dot com | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
a $900 DLP projector won't work for field sequential 3d......i think Vrex has a DLP projector that works but its $20,000+. now a $900 DLP projector works well for anaglyph 3d | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Have you personally tried using a $900 projector for field sequential 3D? My guess would be no. If you had then you would be saying "Hell yes it works, works well as a matter of fact". I suggest you try it for yourself so you won't be making such wildly incorrect statements regarding this subject. John P.S. just got done playing about 2 hours of L.O.M.A.C online in stereo with 4XAA and 8X ansio turned on. F'in incredible!!! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob here Thanks John. Good to see that the internet still fosters a sense of community. As I am UK based I won't be able to get to South Carolina! Intrested to know what screen you are using? And if you have thought about rear projection? Cbrack thank you for contributing. With two different dlps do you have any issues? The Geowall people recommend using two of the same projector? All the best guys. I'll try to start to collate this information over the next week or so. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob here. £500+ VAT for an Infocus X1 in the UK now. Anyone else with any dlp adventures to share!!! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Sorry i will ask a bit out of topic question to John. John, can you please try analyth mode - i hope you have a pair of glasses. Is the difference so big to put another 900USD investments? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob here. Cheap diy polorised screen details from one of the yahoo groups. Hope this helps. From: ddd To: 3dtv@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [3dtv] polarized projections HI It it screen was it been possible was was to make with cheap way, I depicted my screen (4m x 2.5 m) special printer's paint - "series 388-100 SILVER" http://www.printcolor.ch/screen_eng_tm_388.pdf With 1 identifier of paint it possible to paint screen 8m x 6m. Andrzej | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I've tried Anaglyph for about ten minutes once. the difference in light let thru the red and blue (cyan) lenses was very uncomfortable for me. actually after ten minutes it was rather painful. I made several adjustments both on the projector and video card but was anable to relieve my discomfort. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
yes field sequential works with a $900 DLP projector but you still have to use shutterglasses...so whats the point?...just a bigger screen??? Vrex had a single DLP projector you were able to use just passive paper polorized glasses......but it was $20,000 | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
I guess I must be missing something here. I have better than $900 DLP projectors and I cannot get either of them to work in field sequential mode without a colour beat frequency appearing. I believe that this is due to the slight phase mismatch between a 180Hz colour wheel and 60Hz glasses. And in any case, running glasses at 60Hz is pretty horrible. Is there a better way to do this that I'm missing? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Yep, pretty much just a bigger screen. I sit 8' away from a 10' screen. I play my game regularly and in stereo on it. This would be best described as "WOW!" My couch is 13' away from the screen and is more comfortable than any movie theater seat. Wide-screen movies are displayed at 109". With 5.1 surround, the ability to pause for bathroom breaks, able to wear Pajamas while watching, ect... Again "WOW!" So if your only goal is to have a more immersive stereoscopic experience then I would not recommend going the projector route. I would wait for the OLED HMD's with headtracking and true 5.1 sound to hit the market. Probably a two to three year wait. John | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
Hi John, after reading your comment twice, I'm still not sure if it's an answer to my question or not. Perhaps I was misleading in my phrasing, I meant missing something in the sense that there was a way to make it work properly that I wasn't aware of -- not, as you will now understand, in the sense that I might be missing an experience. In fact, I already know that I am missing the kind of experience that you are describing as, despite having spent much of the last 10 years designing stereo workstations, I almost never use them for playing games and very rarely see movies anywhere -- theaters, tv or 3D workstations. At the moment we have six stereo workstations up and running (it varies from two to about eight depending on what we are doing) which range from the new test one I am playing with dual-DLP/Polarized on a 7.5-foot diagonal screen all the way up to a 25-foot diagonal CRT-projector/alternate-eye setup. Somewhat surprisingly, we still find it impossible to match the presentation quality of the big CRT-based systems with any LCD or DLP-based system. But I have no doubt that it will come one day very soon. Anyway, my question still stands: is it only me that has a colour-phasing problem with alternate-eye DLPs, or am I simply being more nit-picky about it? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hi guys - Unclebob here. I should get an Infocus X1 tommorrow. Will report back on any findings next week. As I have a black room (cellar), with a homebrew projector, I will be able to give an objective opinion on brightness and flicker. Will do an active set up first using ATI and edimensional glasses....fingers crossed. Also have some separate OpenGL drivers as well so we'll give them ago on say F.A.K.K.2 Would like to try the passive set up so need to get hold of some polorised filters. Any recommendations on UK sources would be appriciated (or tips as well)! Keep you posted guys. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclbod, i can wait till u get it. ;) | ||
| cry Rating: N/A |
Ati dont work well i have try both, but tell me friend if it works! | ||
| PiXeL Rating: N/A |
I just purchased an Infocus X2 today and am testing it out now. So far it looks very good! i will post more after a few more games!!!!!!! | ||
| cryingfoot Rating: N/A |
come on PIXEL please help me to make my choice, discribe it! take your time body. thanks | ||
| cry Rating: N/A |
and write your systeme and 3d glasses u are using! | ||
| PiXeL Rating: N/A |
Sorry for the delay guys. The x2 is AWESOME! I was a little worried that the 800x600 res would drive me nuts but its not bad at all. Crank up antialiasing and away we go! I am running a homebuilt system: A64 3200, 512MB RAM, EVGA 5900 Ultra, EDimensional glasses. Ghosting is near non existent, which really surprised me. I have been playing NFS Underground a lot which displays absolutely perfectly! Wolfenstein is also georgious. I wish i wouldn't have purchased the i-glasses3d now...could have saved my money for the x2! Glasses sync seems to work fine. Brightness is good (after tweaking) and flicker doesn't seem to be a big deal either. Unfortunatley, my son dropped my EDimensional glasses on the floor and broke them. Time to break out the super glue and soldering gun. More to come (i hope)! Anyone want to buy a set of i-glasses? | ||
| cryingfoot Rating: N/A |
So now it s official a DLP work in stereo right ! good to ear it man, thanks. please feel free to tell more about your experience. and do yourself a favor, try painkiller! | ||
| PiXeL Rating: N/A |
Bad news. Just lost my EVGA 5900 so no stereo until i get a replacement. *&^% | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
IS 5900 working in stereo mode, some people told me it should not 8( | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
They always worked. The real problem is flickering - most of people see it, some don't care. If you will spend more then 2 hours with 30 HZ flickering glasees, your eyes will fell really bad. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob here got an X1 on Friday. c£500 in the Uk extra bulbs £60! Cleared out my cellar 'den', moved round all the furniture. Built a diy ceiling mount and installed the projector. Set it up for a 6ft+ screen horizontal. (fills the whole of one end of the cellar...) Fired her up. WOW Granted I am lucky to have complete lighting control but it was a great picture with 2x lights on and superb in complete darkness...in fact I'd say a little too bright for me. Not much time left for 3d stereo experimentation but DVDs were excellent and Painkiller awesome. Do I miss 1024 as opposed to 800x600? Nope. Have not noticed it. Some AA makes the games look just as good. Will get some time to do experiement with shutter glasses later this week. Will try and do some OpenGl games and some d3d ones. edimensional and ATI though... England Croatia tonight as well. Just need to work out how to get a TV feed to the cellar now. Looks like someone has the X2 and its working for them. Respect. All the best Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
http://www.stereo3d.com/dlppleading.htm Please read it. I think all we need it is just test some 4x weel projectors and find out which of them really can show 120 HZ or more. Then we all will be enjoing the paradise. Sergey | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
A 4x wheel isn't enough. You need the software to update the internal frame buffer fast enough -- or is this what you mean by "120Hz or more"? I can drive my Dell 4100MP DLP's happily at 120Hz (the frequency of the color wheel), and synchronize the glasses to the color wheel (thus at 60 fps per eye), but the stupid projector skips every second frame of my 120fps signal, and shows it at 60fps -- each one shown for two revolutions of the color wheel. :-( | ||
| Rick Hunter Rating: N/A |
Alatar I am interested in knowing a bit more details of the software that you mention to drive a DLP @ 120Hz, are you modifying internaly your DLP proyector? Thanks Rick Hunter | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
> are you modifying internaly your DLP proyector? It may come to that, but I haven't tried it yet. We use a variety of software to test display systems, including test programs using DirectX, the nVidia stereo drivers, our own proprietary drivers, and several other things as well. Note that I was referring to the video card outputting 120Hz FPS, but the projector ignores it and only uses some of the frames sent (at the moment I believe every second one). | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
I see now that the phrasing I used in my post three above (starting "A 4x wheel...") was misleading. I should have said "You need the *projector firmware* to update...." (not software). I was referring entirely to the projector, not the video system (e.g. a PC) driving the projector. Sorry for any confusion. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
UncleBob, Congrats on your new X1. I'm running mine at 10'diag. and it was still overly bright. So I built a screen and painted it with Behr "silverscreen" paint mixed in the Ultru pure white flat base. The whites are less glaring, the colors more vibrant, and the contrast is greatly improved. You might want to give it a go. I had an issue with blue ghosting when in stereo mode and droped the projector's blue level down to half the red and green levels. With the "Silverscreen" I am able to raise the blue level back up. Has something to do with the red and umber in the paint. Now you have to build a theater in your cellar. I've enjoyed building mine. You might want to check out the screen forum at avsforum.com but be prepared to be completely overwhelmed. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
John Unclebob here. Started looking for second hand cinema seats as we speak! Had a few driver issues last night as I had the usual Painkiller issues and took out all drivers and put them back. The only thing I had left was GLDirect OpenGL wrapper which limited what I could play with. The H3D activator test image was fine. The globe hanging in space about 2 feet off the screen. Brightness is very strong and I completely agree about the whites (you could get a suntan at 8ft!) Flicker was more than acceptable. I have a 100hz 36 inch CRT TV which I can se to 50hz. Same flicker effect in large white areas! A subjective thing that I am sure I can live with. Non enabled stereo games are sweet. I seriously wish I stuck with Nvida though... Further experimentation over the next few nights. Tonight back to ATI and edimensional driver issues. I'll check out the Australian support pages for edim and try some of the demos/games there that have been proven to work. The part of our cellar I have is about 6ft1 by 6ft6 by 15ft so the X1 throw distance is just right to fill one end. Just right for those corridors in Painkiller and a scary sense of immersion! Once I've got the 3d working I'll try your screen idea. Perhaps upgrade to a passive 3d setup as X1s are dropping in price here and they are a steel at £500 here. Cryingfoot watch this thread or ask John here for some advice. It would be a poor show to spend out on a DLP and not to have easy stereo...a bit like buying a ATI card I suppose...LOL All the best guys | ||
| cryingfoot Rating: N/A |
Ok so JOHN DOES A NORMAL DLP WORK WITH SHUTTERGLASSES ! YES OR NO. REALLY NEED HELP!!! A 100HZ AND 3X Color wheel. Please i m confuse!!! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Yes it does!!! And for the hearing impaired "YES IT DOES!!!!!!" You have to set your refresh rate to 60Hz and whatever your projector's native resolution is. MUST BE SET AT 60HZ or you will have a sync issue. Don't worry about flicker as it's nearly non-existent. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Screw the cinema seats, get a futon. Makes for some good snugglin' with yo honey ;) I know what you mean about the Nvidia card. If it weren't for stereo I would have bought an ATI card two product cycles ago. As it stands I have to upgrade to at least a 5950 256Mb card before I can even think about a passive setup. You could buy a quart of the Siverscreen for $10 to paint your existing screen wall. Also if you tape off the screen dimensions and paint the rest of that wall black it will greatly improve your contrast levels. I painted my whole room with a flat hunter green (very nice looking) with the black around the screen and everyone that watches movies on it says "Damn, this is better than going to the movies". I'm so cool  At least in my own mind... John | ||
| cryingfoot Rating: N/A |
U are cool. IF "YES IT DOES" is true. If not you ruin myself of 3000$ Canadian box ;) and yes i redo my own basement too. Glad i m not the only insane person in this universe! Just for fun can u tell me why a LCD don t work; i have test those... and a DLP works ? i m curious and my reseller too. Maybe everyone know it and i m stupid yes, but what can i do | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
If you mean YES I DOES = 60 Hz (30 Hz per eye) is accptable, you are crazy. It is NOT acceptable. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
That could be aceptable. Flickering may be really different and depending on visualization type. It aceptable if your eye is okey to see something black at 30 Hz(by glasess). Usual TV works at 50HZ and that is absolutly ok for 100% of population. 40 HZ is also ok - i have seen such old TVs - you can watch it. So 30 HZ per eye is also possible, yes you would notice it, but it will not make any pain to you, and you got 3d view. The real question - do we need such technology if we can use usual CRT+ shutter glasess with very good quality of picture, and 3d effect (separation)? Sergey | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob, Please spend 2-3 hour in glasess after you fix drivers. I want to undertsand how much time eyes need to foregt about flikering. Is it hour or two? The second question - if you will decrease brightness, or change color settings in Ati panel to decrease number of white ares (possibly move them to yellow?), does it decrease flickering? Sergey | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hi guys Unclebob here John. Thanks for your suggestion a futon is a great idea! Check these bad boys out though... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5700985723 The cellar is painted dark blue on one wall and dark red on the other... The screen an (IKEA white blackout blind) cut to size fills one end completely (floor to ceiling and wall to wall). Thinking about putting two floor to cieling mirrors on the walls next to (at right angles to the screen) to increase field of view! So the setup is Mirror < Wall > s -----++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ c I.............15 feet .......................................I r I.....................................................Ceiling I e I................................seats...........Mounted I e I...................................................X1.......I n I..............................................................I -----++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mirror Tried viewing some JPS files using the shutter glasses and I have to agree with John Great bright picture/little or no noticable flicker - glasses on for perhaps 5secs. The only issue with JPS files is that you have no control on separation of the individual images so what is acceptable on a 17 inch screen is massively exaggerated on a 6ft one! I did notice flicker if any other lights were on though so perhaps light polution from 50 hz lights causes a great perseption of 'flicker' than light from one source synch'ed to the glasses. Incidently this is a good way to test that the glasses are working...look at a normal light. If it flickers the glasses are on. You can of course use the e-dim 3d activator and look at the pictures. Cryingfoot. As far as I can see at the moment that the X1 is a great projector for DVDs TV and games. Add on shutterglasses and a NVIDIA card and its a very good entry into the world of projected active stereo. Its native resolution is 800*600 at 60Hz. That is entry level on DLPs but at less than £500 in the Uk. £2000+ on a model that has a much higher refresh rate is simply out of reach or insane for just games playing. (£500 is bad enough!) I am going to swap video cards tonight and try an olg geforce 3 ti200 and get some games to work. There are just too many variables with ATI (the drivers, powerstrip, the projector, the games, win98se etc etc). It would take too much time fiddling. Sergey I intend to do just what you are suggesting. The flicker may not be bad of John and I as we have total control on light. House lighting polution at 50Hz could be causing an exaggerated flicker effect for some people. Also don't forget that we are talking about a projected image here of 6ft6 by 4ft6 at 10ft away not looking directly at a 17inch monitor from 18 inches! All these things must be reducing the perception of flicker... All the best guys | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Do we know about any projector which internal frequrency is above 60HZ? Sergey | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Sergy on this very site is the information you need. Single projector solutions http://www.stereo3d.com/projection.htm#single Barco and Christie. I think they are 10000 US+ though. Hence doing what we're doing... Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
According whatever we need to replace CRT by DLP, the answer is YES. Reasons : - No ghosting for DLP (ghosting produced by LCD glasses is neglibel in comparison to ghosting produced by CRT phosphor latency) ... - Sharper and brighter image You will cath it after seen DLP stereoscopic projektor in action (I mean hi refresh rate one as the Christie models). The quality of image is order to magnitude beter than passive or CRT steroscopy ... According whatever 30 Hz per eye is O.K.: You can not compare TV and stereoscopic monitor/projektor. TV has relatively low speed phospors and odd/even images are continusouly mixed. | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
Has anyone tried two DLPs using active stereo (i.e. alternate eye)? You would have to have electronic shutters on both the projectors and the users, of course. As long as you were reasonably closely phased with the color wheel, it should be guite good, I would imagine. This is the last item on the first table here, as far as I can tell: http://www.stereo3d.com/3dhome.htm | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Alatar, Dual active projectors. That's an interesting idea. Although, due to the fact that both projectors would be running at the DLP chip's only true refresh rate of 60Hz you'd still end up with 30Hz per eye as you would have to block every other refresh on each projector to gain a 3D perspective. I for one am very pleased with what I have for the now. I pretty sure I won't be upgrading till the OLED HMD comes out. UncleBob, I like the chairs. You may want to re-think the mirror idea though. Not only will they wash-out your screen but will only be able to reflect what's on the screen, not extend your FOV. If you have the mirrors already give it a try and see what I mean. Have a look at my projector settings for 3D as I played with them for about 6 hours to get it just right. It might save you some time on your initial setup. John | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the reply, anonymous. I don't think it's true that you would be running at 30Hz per eye. These (2X color wheel) projectors I'm testing are very definitely displaying a full RGBW cycle every 1/120th of a second. It's true that the image in the first 1/120th of a second is the same as the second 1/120th of a second, but essentially it is running at 120fps on twos. In other words, every 1/60th of a second you get a full RGBWRGBW sequence. I have confirmed this several times with photodetectors hung on the screen in various color patches, and a storage oscilliscope. So if you run the glasses at 120Hz (which is actually a misnomer, a full cycle is 1/60th of a second: 1/120th on, 1/120th off), one eye will see RGBWxxxx for the frame, and the other eye will see xxxxRGBW for the frame. Each eye will get 60fps, and there will be no visible flicker. Of course, it would be best if the shutters were sync'ed to the color wheel, but my theory is that it may not matter: who cares if the eye sees RGBWxxx or xGBWRxxx or xxxWRGBx. As long as the shutter is open for one full rotation of the color wheel, it will see a color-balanced image, no matter where it starts. A similar argument, which I won't go into, applies for why it's not important that the color wheels in the two projectors are in sync. Anyway, I hope to let you know soon, I've just arranged to borrow the neccessary projector-side shutters for the weekend to test it. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob here Another night of tinkering and playing. Stripped out the ati9800 pro and put in Nvidia GF3 TI200. Downloaded the Nivida drivers and Stereo drivers pair. Loaded them up. Oh no test image, medical image doesn't work...15 mins later findout that it doesn't matter as Stereo works in game anyway. Oh well - anxious now after last nights ATI edimentional efforts... Here we go lets try Postal2 Wow Here we go lets try Painkiller Wow (but then usual slow up and crash to desktop) - buggy game it is. Stereo worked straight off. Although some blue ghosting as John mentioned. Further issues re screen size and separation. John tried the registry hack but it doesn't stick... After all a six pixel separation on a 17 inch monitor is a negligible on the eye but is about a couple of inches on a 100 inch screen. Flicker - in complete darkness on a static image no worse than a 50hz 32 inch TV. In game non existant - at least for me! Didn't even notice it disappearing it was that non existant So moving forward: Overall stereo quality: Need to reread the stereo manual and play with the sepatation, depth and convergence settings. Like to get things to 'pop' out of the screen. Ghosting John if you could post your exact X1 settings that would be grand. Ghosting Use Johns suggestion about the screen. Pure white may be reflecting the blue component more strongly. A different surface could absorb more of this light and reduce the effect. Perhaps a blue filter on the lens? Ghosting I'm going to try higher refresh rates that are multiples of 60Hz perhaps using powerstrip. So I will try 75, 90, 105 and 120 Hz... Graphics card DITCH ATI and get a Nvidia 6800... England Portugal tonight and my wife needs some attention so no more experiementing forthe moment. See you later. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Alatar, I understand what your saying about the color wheel speed. What I'm saying is that the DLP chip which displays the pixel image only refreshes at a rate of 60Hz. UncleBob, The higher refresh rate that are available will not work in stereo but I'm sure you'll try for yourself as I did. Here are my settings. The best way to set your phase is to display the number 1 in the middle of your screen using notepad. You'll see that as you adjust your phase that you will start to see the 1 ghosting off to the right at a rate of about once ever three pixels (very faint). I found that a setting of 68 completely eliminated the ghosting for me. 4:3 aspect ratio. (not native) Video mode. (not presentation) Phase=68 red=71 green=71 blue=35 contrast=45 brightness=42 As I stated earlier, the Silverscreen paint allowed me to raise my blue level up without having the Blue ghosting problem. Have fun. John | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
> I understand what your saying about the color wheel speed. What I'm saying is that the DLP chip which displays the pixel image only refreshes at a rate of 60Hz. Yes, but there are two of them, fed by two different video outputs on the card, same as polarized. In each 1/60th of a second, half of that time (1/120th) is spent displaying the frame from one DLP (i.e. left), and the other 1/120th is spent displaying the right eye from the other DLP. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
So what you would need is one set of glasses running at double the speed of one of the projectors. One set of "glasses" on the projectors running at the same speed as the pair your wearing. I don't understand how it would work without the projectors being in perfect syncronization. How would you get the double rate inputed to the glasses? As I see it everything would have to be in perfect time so as not to end up with a partially refreshed view for the projector that the glases aren't sync'd to. Also 60Hz is just an "about" value. You could have as much as a 5% varience. Clock cycles differ from one projector to the next. Wouldn't this have to be accounted for in some way? Forgive me if I sound ignorant about this but I am John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
You are right john, trying to synhronize two projectors at 60 HZ each can be killing. But what if in such setup we will make both projectors work at 120 HZ? Glasess at 60 HZ, not synchronizaed with any projector.+ Some kind of glasess wiich blocks light from projectors working at 60HZ and syncronizaed with main (human) glasess. In such setup any projector will have enought time (1/60 sec) to show one frame, becouse in that time it should show at least two (becouse it is going at 120hz). So synhronization will not be needed for such setup. You will get one image for left eye, and one for right (possibly two for left and two for right, but your eyez will not catch it ;) Idea is nice, but the real problem is to build these second "on projectors" filters. We can try to use usual LCD glasess, but it seems to me that they can't block 100% of heavy light coming from projector. So we will again enjoy ghosting. But why do we need that active setup, while we can enjoy passive cheaper? Sergey | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
from site news: September 20, 2003: digital image offers patented active dual-DLP-projector setups for shutterglasses This solution, based on standard 1-chip-DLP-projectors and demultiplexers, offers virtually ghost-free stereo3d images at 120+ Hz refresh rates. Multi-projector arrays for CAVE's are also available. The projectors run out-of-sync to the VGA-source. The sync of the color-wheel of one of the projectors is taken and distributed to all other projectors and the shutterglasses. The internal memory of the projectors is utilized as buffer. Sergey | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
> But why do we need that active setup, while we can enjoy passive cheaper? Because it can be displayed on a white screen, and thus not be subject to the color shifts inherent with a polarized screen. Also, it is much less sensitive to the viewer's position, so it may work better in exhibits and displays. > but the real problem is to build these second "on projectors" filters Yes, true. Transmission isn't as big a problem as cooling. You have to have them fairly close to the lens, both for size reasons and because they have to be out of the projection pyramid of the other projector. They have to absorb and disipate 50% of the total output of each projector, so they get very hot very quickly. Nevertheless, I have a couple of other approaches I am planing to try over the next few days. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
If the glasses are running at 60Hz then we are still left with the problem of a 60Hz clock at your eyes which is where the problem is for the flicker concern. Now whet if you took two projectors and mounted them one above the other. The distance between the lenses would be (on the X1) 3 inches. Then you take a disk that is half clear and half solid. Attach the disk to a small motor that is sync'd to the 120Hz color wheel as the DLP chip is (the clear segment on the X1) and have the glasses sync'd to the disk. It can be a stand alone unit that would attach to the front of the projectors. You could even make it intrigal to the projector mounting system. The only attachment it would have to the projector would be the one wire that it takes it's sync from. Doable? John | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
> If the glasses are running at 60Hz then we are still left with the problem of a 60Hz clock at your eyes which is where the problem is for the flicker concern. There is confusion in the terminology about flicker rates for glasses. One often sees e.g. 90Hz mentioned in alternate-eye systems but that is the rate of the monitor: there are 90 images displayed per second. Each eyepiece is open for half of these, so from a technical standpoint, each eyepiece is operating at 45Hz. What I am referring to is 120 images per second (60 from one DLP, 60 from the other), and each eye piece will block half of them, thus running at 60Hz per eyepiece, but 120Hz for the system. This is well above the perceptible flicker limit and in fact the problem is the opposite: it is faster than most glasses can properly switch. > Now whet if you took two projectors and mounted them one above the other. The distance between the lenses would be (on the X1) 3 inches. Then you take a disk that is half clear and half solid. Attach the disk to a small motor that is sync'd to the 120Hz color wheel as the DLP chip is (the clear segment on the X1) and have the glasses sync'd to the disk. It can be a stand alone unit that would attach to the front of the projectors. You could even make it intrigal to the projector mounting system. It sounds suspiciously like you have been snooping in my development workshop! This is exactly what is set up here at the moment, except that I am using a spare 70mm film projector shutter, as they are made for exactly that purpose, and can stand the heat. Synchronization is another issue, and I haven't got there yet. I am hoping it won't be an issue, for the reasons I described several posts ago: it doesn't matter if the shutter opens a bit late (or early) as what it loses at the beginning is made up in the end (because the color sequence is RGBWRGBW, if you mean to display RGBWxxxx but are late, you display xGBWRxxx, which is just as good). | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I've thought about this idea since my previous post and came up with this. It wouldn't work with with DLP projectors, only LCD. take two LCD projectors of whatever resolution your pocketbook can handle. Use a 12,000RPM SCSI drive motor to spin the disk that is half clear half solid. Have two holes drilled into the outtermost edge of the disk (which is solid) 180deg apart from one another which will supply the sync signal to the glasses. Spinning at 12,000 RPM will give a refresh rate of 100Hz per eye. The benefits as I see it would be. 1. due to the fact the LCD don't refresh in the normal fashion that it wouldn't matter if your sync'd to the projectors or the video card at all. 2. There would be absolutly no ghosting whatsoever. 3. can be built with cheap off the shelf parts. Hell, I have an old 12,000RPM SCSI drive laying in a box somewhere. 4. There would be no complicated software or eloctronics needed. Anyone see any faults with this idea? John | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
Two, actually: - At 12,000 RPM even HD manufacturers have trouble keeping their platters from flying apart (but why don't you have 4, 6 or 8 sections and turn it more slowly?) - I have never seen glasses that can run well at close to 100Hz per eye - they can't switch fast enough, if liquid crystal could, we would be using alternate-eye LCD screens and projectors all over the place. But, as I said above, even 50-70 Hz per eye removes almost all the flicker. But it's a good idea, with a little tweaking it might work very well. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Good call Alatar. I also did a re-think and relised that the 50/50 split of the wheel wouldn't work as half of each projector lens would be exposed at the same time. What we would have to do is have alternating windows on the inner diameter and outter diameter of the wheel. one lens on the inside windows and one on the outside. The windows would have to be spaced apart enough that no part of the two leses are exposed at the same time. I'm going to play with AutoCAD inventor for a little while and see if this is feasible. TTYL John P.S. this is fun. What a NERD!!! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Your right. You would need two wheels. If you hooked the two wheels together with a cogged belt(vaccum cleaner belt?) you could drive them with one motor and they would always be in time. 4 windows to a wheel running at 15hz (900RPM?). Drill 2.5" holes (lens size) as the windows, with a smaller hole drilled in line with the beginning edge of each of the lens holes. with an LED "switch" (Like an old mouse has) mounted to pick up the smaller hole for a sync signal. Better? John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Oh! you meant two "faults"... My bad. Or maybe not... John | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
The projector shutters I have been lent are (not surprisingly) perfect for the job. I borrowed two but it's clear that I can use only one and it will work perfectly at 1800RPM. If I have time I will put up a photo and a sketch or two on a website for you. They have an adjustable duty cycle, too; anywhere from an open-closed ratio of 50-50 to about 35-65. PS: yes, I meant two faults, not two discs. ;-) Sorry for the confusion. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
OK, here's what I have. 2 black disks 6" in diameter. with a triangular window that starts 1/4" from disk center and extends out 2" from disk center. The begining and ending sides of the window are cut at a 45Deg angle. the window is 1/4th of the disk wide. A small hole (size to be determined later) is drilled 2.5" from disk center directly above the window centerline on one disk only. This hole will use 2 LED emitter/recievers that are mounted 180Deg apart and 90Deg from the lens vertical centerline to sync the glasses. The disks are square tooth cut on the outter edge to accomodate a cogged belt. these disks will be rotated by said belt driven by 1 drive motor with an attached smaller diameter square toothed gear. The entire assembly will be held by a bracket made from 1/4" thick aluminium plate stock. (the disks with the cogged outter edge, the drive gear, and the belt are all off the shelf parts. I have a catalog around here somewhere that has the distributor's website and I will post that sometime this weekend. All of these measurement are taken using the mounting surface and lens placement of my X1. If you'd like I can send you a 2D drawing in the CAD format of your choice to better illustrate this idea. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Change 1 hole and two emitters to 2 hole and 1 emitter. it would make more sense to get the sync signal from one source. the addition of an idler gear and sloted mounting holes for the rotating components would allow for varied distances between the lenses. John | ||
| RAGEdemon Rating: N/A |
70 Posts... maybe about time i posted something... Alright here goes: There is a much easier and better way of getting 120Hx from 2x60Hz projectors: Use a splitter cable to send the signal to both projecotrs simultaneously. Use a microcontroller to dely the signal on one projector by 0.5Hz. Use another microcontroller (or same one, depending on how fast it can process signals) to recondition 60Hz field sequential signal into 120Hz. Aside from the fact that one projector will be half a frame slower than the other, everything is synched perfectly, at 60Hz for each eye. Colour bleeding and ghosting will also be eradicated. The University is closed for the summer, i will have access to the labs in the new semester. --RAGEdemon | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Last post before I hit the sack. Where are you getting the left/right stereo separation perspectives Rage? One of the kids I work with has access to the CNC machines at the local tech college. He keeps asking if I need him to build me anything. Wonder what kind of grade he'll get for this little gem? John | ||
| RAGEdemon Rating: N/A |
The nVidia card? Glasses DLP1 / / Card----Splitter \ DLP2 --RAGEdemon | ||
| RAGEdemon Rating: N/A |
Hmm Diagram didnt come out too well. Perhaps better to explain it. nVidia card outputs signal. Glasses signal goes to glasses through microcontroller, which doubles the input signal. VGA signal goes into splitter. 1 signal goes into projetor directly. The other goes into signal with a delay. Upon calculation, the other projector will be exactly 1 frame out on synch. Each frame will be divided into 3 parts. Using some diagrams and logic, having nothing else to do on a saturday morning Basically, its a technique to get a 180Hz signal from the glasses, not 120Hz, which would still leave the problem of somehow terminating the light from the other projector for 1/3 of the frame, perhaps using shaft encoders synched with the projector. So, basically, it will give a stereo signal at 180Hz glasses synch with 120Hz effective Projector Synch from a source signal of 60Hz signal out. You would need a microcontroller, VGA splitter, and shaft encoders - overkill. The whole point is moot as glasses wont support up to 180Hz, and we have a dual head projection option using polarising filters thanks to nVidia, which will work far better than shutters. Still though, good exercise for the brain at 6 in the morning --Shahzad | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
> we have a dual head projection option using polarising filters thanks to nVidia, which will work far better than shutters Why do you believe that dual projection with polarizing filters will work better than dual projection with dual synchronized shutters? It (polarized) will certainly be simpler and cheaper, yes, but perhaps the alternate-eye solution will look dramatically better? For one thing, it can be shown on any old white screen or even a wall. Not that I am arguing for it, per se, but I am interested in seeing what it looks like before I go off and build a bunch of polarized ones. Of course, the two approaches use mostly the same equipment and setup, so maybe a dual-mode system is the way to go. PS: just to be sure there is no confusion, this approach was always about using dual-head output, it's simply a possible way of getting around the short-comings and artifacts associated with polarization. | ||
| RAGEdemon Rating: N/A |
Well. thinking about it plainly, polarised glasses are passive, while field seq is active, it shuts out one eye so the other can see, and then vice versa. Even when done at very high speeds, i would think the effect would be of a lower quality than passive. Example: ghosting aside, on a normal monitor, even at 140Hz, the image is not nearly as good as imax passive. Then there is the need for shutter glasses for every user, while cheap polarised glasses for passive will suffice. I would like to think that field seq is atleast on par, as it is the setup i have at the moment, but being honest with myself, i can't. They are both extremely impressive, but i think passive would just be more practical in the long run. Just my opinion --Shahzad | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
> i think passive would just be more practical in the long run Yes, you may well be right. Still, it will be interesting to see. The best of the three Imax systems is the hybrid one, which would work in this scenario, but it loses a huge amount of light (>75% per eye). Interestingly, I have been told that Imax is no longer offering theaters any option except passive, mostly because of the management problems associated with the active glasses. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
The Dual projector shutter system I described above would cost about $150-$200 to make. It would run at 120Hz. It would run independent from any sort of sync signal from any part of the video system itself. Alatar, Is the shutter system your using now taking a sync signal from anything or is it just happily running along all by itself? What projector (DLP?)are you using and what is the color wheel speed? I have a fan here that runs at 3600RPM +/-20RPM. I'm going to cut the window that I described into a CD and attach it to the fan. Then stick it in front of my projector to see what the picture looks like. Do you think I'll get a good representation without the shutter glasses hooked up? John | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
John -- I don't really know. I doubt you could detect beat frequency problems without glasses, but you should be able to tell something, I suppose. I am only now about to start work on the breadboard circuit to drive the glasses from the optical detector. To answer your questions, I am using dual Dell 4100MP and the color wheel speed is 120RPS. For the moment I am driving it with a variable speed drill equipped with a speed lock and a thumbscrew for fine speed adjustment. | ||
| RAGEdemon Rating: N/A |
Just as a sidenote, i opoened up my dlp quite a few times - there is a speed detector for the flywheel. You can tap thois signal and use feedback to get perfect synch between any external motor and the flywheel itself. I am assuming most DLPs will have this. --Shahzad | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
After designing what I described, And putting it into motion using Inventor, I see one glaring problem. With a shutter system of any type you would have to completely black out the first lens before you could even begin to open the second. Therefore you would have a portion of time in which nothing would be displayed on the screen at all. For example: In my dual rotating disk design which provides 60Hz(3600RPM) per eye the window will begin "opening" the lens from the left and "closing" on the right. The amount of time that you actually see the entire frame is about 50% of the window open time. The window is be necessity only 25% of the disk. So if the disk is rotating at 60Hz. Then the math would be 60Hz=16.7ms total available "on" per rotation. 25%(window % of disk) of 16.7ms=4.17ms 50%(time entire screen is displayed)of 4.17ms=2.08ms 2.08ms x 60RPS=124.8ms 124.8ms x 2 projectors= 249.6Ms of seeing the entire screen per second. Meaning I would only see the entire screen 25% of the time. I would see a portion of the screen another 25% of the time. So even being generous I'm still out 50% of the 60Hz. Please tell me that my math is flawed. If not then at least I got some CAD time in. On a side note. I took apart my glasses and put them in front of my projector lens. When in the film mode (clear segment is not displayed) it seemed to me that there was nothing getting through. I will bring home my solder gun so I can energize one of the LCD panels and really look at the screen closely. Till then, Adios. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Did any of you guys ever check out the GEOWALL: http://geowall.geo.lsa.umich.edu/ It's a D.I.Y. passive 2 DLP system. MM | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I think Ragedemon approach is not working at all - what DLP projector do when it is working at 60 HZ: if it fast whell projector, it should continue showing picture and not blocking the light (becouse i don't think it will decrease the speed of whell). The only hope for this approach is old 1x whell DLP projectors, which may work at 60HZ by native (they may block light for 1/2 of cycle). We need some DLP expert here to help us to confirm it or kill it. Sergey. Sergey. | ||
| RAGEdemon Rating: N/A |
Hi Sergy, I am afraid i cannot make out what you are saying. I think what you are saying is that while one frame is getting displayed by one projector, the other image on the other projector needs to be blocked out. I have mentioned how to block the lognt from the other projector using shaft encoders synched with feedback to the flywheel. It can be better accomplished by using LCD pannels as john has just mentioned, though at 180Hz which im not sure LCD can handle at the moment. Can you explain if this is what you are saying? I will try to draw a diagram of what i was thinking of. Looking forward to hearing from you, --Shahzad | ||
| RAGEdemon Rating: N/A |
On second thought, maybe you are saying you do not know how the projector is blocking ight for half the cycle: In which case: I am talking about a page flipped signal from an nVidia card feeding into 2 projectors, where a frame is displayed for one eye, then for the other at a shifted position - NOT dual head stereo. Let me know please -- Shahzad | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
John - this is why I borrowed shutters from film projectors. The trick is to use a larger diameter shutter wheel and have the projectors further out from the axis of the wheel. Also, as I said before, the projector shutters have an adjustment to vary the duty cycle (it's quite clever, I will describe it below). At the moment it is adusted to about 60% off, 40% on per eye giving me only 20% "dark time" and 80% "light time". At this setting, there is no time at which a part of both images is visible on the screen. RAGEdemon -- yes, I too was confused about what you were describing, as the solution John and I are working on is dual head. PS: John, it occurs to me that maybe it will work best if you just leave the fan rotor on your motor and then position your projectors accordingly ;-) In addition to being able to have your projectors further out from the center, you will also be cooling your projectors, thus killing two birds with one stone. PPS: I added the above as a joke, but it's just made me realize what these little added fins on this projector shutter disk are: they are essentially a fan for cooling. | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
John, one additional comment: although the "on time" of mine is better than yours because of the larger diameter, I think that you are being unduly pessimistic about the "total image on-time" (the time in which the total image, without clipping, is visible). There is no reason the whole image needs to be displayed all at the same time. The film projectors, cameras, the DLP chip itself, and lots of other devices all do things like this, without any ill-effect being visible to the viewer. IMHO the only important factors are the duty cycle (i.e. the on-time percentage), and that there is no perceptible cross-talk. | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
The best way I can think of to describe a projector shutter is like this: - Take an LP record, but made of tin (with imaginary label in center) - Draw a symetrical "X" across it - Remove two opposing bits of the vinyl, but leave the label portion - Remove the center portion of the label (so it looks like a 45) - Make a second one, just the same - Place them flat on top of each other - place a lightweight aluminum pulley-thingy (like a gear without the teeth -- I imagine it may technically be called a bushing) in the center and bolt/screw the two plates down onto it - The bottom of the two plates has normal holes for the bolts, the top one has elongated ones, allowing it to be rotated relative to the bottom one. This provides an adjustment of the "off-time". I apologize to those too young to know what an LP or a 45 is :-) | ||
| cryingfoot Rating: N/A |
I just buy a Benq 6200 today, it s comming soon. so i will let you know! I'm scare and excited. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
My window design was all wrong. I did a redo and it looked like an art deco representation of the batman symbol. The it ocurred to me "Hey the projected image is rectangular". So I did another redo. This time the result was more to my liking. I ended up with 1 10" disk with a window that is 148deg of the rotation. That's 60 more degrees than what I had yesterday. I haven't done the math yet but it looks promising. Shame we can't post pictures here. I'll finish drawing it up and make a link to the picture. John P.S. Congratulations Cryingfoot!! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
So the disk is 360 degrees round. The max amount of the disk you can have for each eye is 180 degrees. My disk window is 145 degrees of the rotation. So I'm only loosing 35 degrees per eye. The new math would then be: 180 degrees = 16.7ms 145 degrees = 13.4ms Dead time = 3.3ms when the LCD in the shutter glasses is de-energized how long, in ms, does it take to become clear? More to come. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob here. Looks like this is starting to be the longest thread here. Ceiling mounted my X1 yesterday. Set up XP. Downloaded the stereo drivers. No stereo. S**T I thought whats wrong. Then I realised that in ceiling mounting the X1, I had to invert the image. Using the glasses the right way round I get a stereo image that makes little sense. Now by turning my glasses round backwards I get perfect stereo. My question is can I swap the images around in software using the Nvidia driver? As the glasses do not fit backwards! Ctr-w seems to work for the JPS viewer only... Only got as far the test application with this new set up. Any help gratefully recieved. Looks like you 'hardcore' guys are taking this a lot further. Just to be clear to Neebies on this. Nvidia stereo with shutter glasses works very well with an X1 resolution 800 by 600 refresh 60hz. Set the projector according to Johns settings above to reduce a blue ghosting. Minimal flicker. Thanks in advance for any help guys. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Yes you can. In nvidia driver there is a feature which can do it. I will buy my DLP projector in Septeber (I will own new flat), but i am thinking about going to 1024*768. What thinking - is it noticeble move? or 800*600 is enought for streo gaming? Sergey | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
John - what about if you make the wheel slightly larger, and position the second projector to use the same wheel? Then you wont have any sync or gearing problems to worry about. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Yes you can. In nvidia driver there is a feature which can do it. I will buy my DLP projector in Septeber (I will own new flat), but i am thinking about going to 1024*768. What thinking - is it noticeble move? or 800*600 is enought for streo gaming? Sergey But how?...and yes to stereo gaming as nvidia drivers allow for aa | ||
| RAGEdemon Rating: N/A |
Sergy, It depends on how you want it. My favourite rez haz always been 1024 thus a 1024 native suited, and i would recomend to anyone, but if you have 800x600, people say there is virtually no difference. And then there is the factor that 1024 or anything higher can be scaled to fit on the 800x600 which means everyhting looks antialiased because of the compressed image - you do not get the performance loss of enabling FSAA that you do with mainstream/entry level cards. As for DVD's etc, everthing is still perfectly fine as the resolution is ~ 720x480 (?). I have also heard that all modes are supported in stereo whereas only SCALED 1280x1024 is supported in stereo, and then only if General Timing Formula is used. I think there are places which show different projectors on display. I think itis a good idea to see th edifference first hand before investing in somehting like this. Another VERY important factor is the bulb life and price. I think the Infocus X1 is excellent for Stereo Compatibility, Price, Conterast Ratio, and bulb price/Lamp hours ~£60 compared to mine with bulb life of 1000 hours and cost of £475(!) I hope this helps, --Shahzad | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Alatar, I've aready done as you've suggested and switched to one 9" disk. It will ride 2" in front of the projectors. i'm still using the two holes and 1 led emitter to sync the glasses to the wheel. I've been working on some ideas on the leading and trailing edge of the window so they will remain vertical as they sweep across the image. I have it worked out in my head and will be drawing it into the design this evening. UncleBob, Make sure you have "4:3" chosen as your aspect ratio, not "Native". John john | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
John - glad to hear you are making progress. Why do you feel that it is important that the "swipe" of the shutter across the image be orthagonal to the frame? I would have thought that any angle at all would be fine, as long as each pixel is displayed for the same percentage of time as the all the others. After all, it's all happening faster than the eye can detect. My own project is going depressingly slowly: neither the table fan motor nor the drill I have been testing with can achieve 1800 RPM :-(, so I am awaiting a larger motor I have begged. However, my glasses are in nice sync with the rotor :-) | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Ragedemon, Thanks for post. But there are two factors which are killing me. 1) Pixelization. I am planing to buy flat with 6m*4m room, which means i will be at 5 metres from screen. It seems to me that 5m will make me see pizelization at 800*600. 2) I am planing also use it for usual computer tasks - browsing, programing and etc (i don't want spend money on additional LCD display), so 800*600 may be not enoght. About FSAA - you can't get the quality of FSAA or AA16 with such method. I have seen it - it is not working and also create artifacts. The question - do you see difference when playng at 1024 or playing at 800? Sergey | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Sergey 800 * 600 in painkiller with FSAA works fine No pixelation or screen door effect (because of dlp technology). John I think I have set to 4:3 will double check... Sergey what is the feature in Nvidia drivers that allows you to swap left for right? Thanks guys Unclebob | ||
| RAGEdemon Rating: N/A |
Sergey, I see a difference only because at 800x600 the image is scaled. For a propper comparrison, we would need 2 projectors, with native 1024x768 and 800x600 to seel the difference. Yes the compression means that antialiasing is nowhere near as good as with Real FSAA, but with DLP, the pixelation is barely visible so you don't notice it. As a comparrison: Although I have native 1024, in stereo im forced to play in 1280x1024 compressed. I have found that even out of stereo, i would much rather play in 1280x1024 compressed image rather than 1024x768 Pixelation) or 1024x768+FSAA (Performance Decrease). The image just seems a little blurred but no pixelation is visible. The image being the size that it is, this is hardly noticeable. At 5m, i would not think you would notice much of a difference Though i suppose if you are going to do this then perhaps a 1280x1024 native projector would not be too bad an idea. I have no experience with these, and would think are very expensive in comparrison and their compatibility in stereo. What ever you choose, let us know how it goes. --Shahzad | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob, That is desctop rotation (you just need to rotate it for 180 degrees). On some old versions of detonator it works only with windows desctope, but i remeber that i launched CIV3 (directx aplication) in 180 degree rotation with 40+ detonator version. If this feature does not exist anymore, you can try to find it in powerstrip. Sergey | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Sergey won't work as mouse control/keyboard control will then be screwed up... I need to swap the blanking of the shutter glasses like you can do with Ctr-w when using the jps viewer for playing games. Have emailed the stereo team at Nvidia. Else several silly solutions present: I will have to buy glasses that have a switch to swap I need to cut the wires and swap them over I need to take the glasses apart and reassemble Thanks anyway Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Bob, The "on" button for my EYE3D glasses also doubles as the swap button. just by pressing and releasing it while the glasses are running will swap eyes. Don't know about your glasses but it may work similarly. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Thanks John but mine are edims and there is no on button mate... Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
BoB By now, you must have become a pro .Need you help on this one… I bought an X1 today and trying to run the field sequential 3D’s with shutter glasses. However, the DCDI chip de-interlaces it and the result…..NO STEREO!!!. Only Ghosting and nothing else. I have got the virtual fx 3D converter which works abs fine with my CRT. How about DLP?? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
No expert on video I bow to the more experinced guys here. My suggestions would be to get the F chip out of the equation.... How about running it through the PC connector in an effort to by pass the F chip? The X1 has a special chip to clean up noise from video sources. or Playing in the PC using one of the 3d movie players? (That will by pass the chip anyway). Don't forget to set the resolution and refresh rate to 800*600 at 60hz. Sync the player to the refresh rate (should be in options), don't fit to screen play at native resolution and away you should go. Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Alatar, Well I finished the conceptual drawing portion of my design. To answer your earlier question. The reason I wanted to keep the window vertical to the lens is that while the window starts perpendicular to the image by the time the top portion of the window reaches the the end of it's pass across the image, the lower portion still has about 30% of the image to go. So I designed a very simple triangular shutter that will keep the window ends vertical to the image, therefore allowing a greater "on time" and a smoother transision while still eliminating ghosting. All-in-all this has been very simple to design which scares me. I showed the design to my coworker that's going to tech college . He feels that phisically it is a very workable design and said he would be happy to cut it out. I have to size out some off the shelf bearings, motor, and electronics that I will need. Then I can clean up the design and plot it. hopefully I'll be able to give him a CNC disk by Monday. John | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
Excellent. My own rig is set up now and supposedly working correctly, but I am getting serious colour phasing which I am at a loss to explain. Clearly I have made a mistake somewhere, so I'm going to go back over everthing and try to identify what I have misunderstood or just plain got wrong. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I gave some thought to color phasing earlier on. One solution to the problem (though I'm not even close to the testing phase) may be to run the shutter assy at a speed less than the projectors refresh rate. I can't explain why I think this my be necessary but looking at the way the DLP chip works it just made sense. I'm still not sure if my shutter will work with DLP. I feel better about it working with LCD. I guess there's only one way to find out. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Help I need to swap the blanking of the shutter glasses like you can do with Ctr-w when using the jps viewer for playing games. Have emailed the stereo team at Nvidia. Else several silly solutions present: I will have to buy glasses that have a switch to swap I need to cut the wires and swap them over I need to take the glasses apart and reassemble Thanks anyway Unclebob | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
> I feel better about it working with LCD. I don't want be discouraging, but have you taken into account the interaction between the native polarization in the LCD projector and the native polarization in the shutterglasses? As you say, there is only one way to find out for sure. In the meantime, I think I understand why I am not getting the results I expect and have a couple of ideas to try. /Alatar | ||
| GregK Rating: N/A |
Has anyone tested the new InFocus 4805 with shutter glasses? In regards to bypassing any internal deinterlacing, be it the Faroudja DCDi chip or generic deinterlacing (like that found in the X2) just feed the set a progressive signal and the internal line doubler is bypassed. Interlaced to progressive scan conversion can be done via a computer, progressive scan DVD player, or with an external line doubler. If you use a progressive scan DVD player and the field-sequential is STILL messed up, try changing the progressive scan conversion settings in your pro-scan DVD player. In my Panasonic DVD player, the "VIDEO" pro-scan conversion setting does the trick. Ditto for computer based DVD players. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
trying to run the field sequential 3D’s with shutter glasses.....I found this on another board... finally got the IMAX movies to play good stereoscopic, on my NVIDIA 5700 256 card. I’m using their nvdvd software, the most controllable I have ever seen. in properties,video.under de-interlace control I had to choose "video", under de-interlace mode I had to choose "display fields separetly".With the ed-activator or h3d activator and with the refresh rate at 60 Hz, they now play as perfectly as the games in stereoscopic 3d. I can now sell the ATI 9200 128 I've been a loyal ATI customer for several years until now. If you love stereoscopic 3d don't bother waiting for the updated drivers e-dimensional keep promising. At best you'll get a few working the NVIDIA 3d works on just about every game I have. All the best Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
So you guys think the Infocus X1 at 60hz is the way to go? Is it really worth the money for the flicker you get???? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Which would be the best to buy for high resolution and 3D effect? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat33200050004&type=category | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
...Bought an X1 and found that ghosting goes COMPLETELY away in 1024x768 native move (meaning that the image is cropped). If I re-size with either the computer or the projector, blue ghost appears. (I can see the ghost go through a couple of color changes, then settle on blue right after the swap). I am thinking that this is color wheel speed changing I am seeing. I need the projector to keep the same sync and colorwheel speed while I feed it 800x600! I have tried powerstrip, making customs resolutions (slightly over 800x600). VSYNC rates of 59 to 62. Feeding it computer driven s-video. Anyone have any ideas? | ||
| Kevin Rating: N/A |
HI Guys, having given up using svga i-glasses for FPS, I am now looking at projectors and 3d-glasses. I have very much enjoyed reading all the posts concerning this matter; however as a complete novice to all this I would appreciate some advice. If I purchase an Infocus X1 or X2 and link it up to my NVidia 5200 card along with some glasses (edimensional maybe?), and run the card at 800*600 60Hz, is that all I need to do or is it more complicated than that. What sort of projector screen should I purchase. Can I utilize a second NVidia 5200 card to work in someway? What additional drivers would I need for the video card and glasses. Which are the best glasses to use. Would running 800*600 resolution be enough for games like ‘Call of Duty’ and ‘Farcry’. Sorry for all the questions but I am a complete beginner so if you could answer my questions without too much technical jargon, it would be much appreciated. Many Thanks Kevin | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Kevin essentially yes thats all you need to do. A screen can be made (white paint on a wall) or use a white blackout blind. Apparently silver screens/paint help get rid of some of the 'blue' ghosting issue. You will also need a Nvidia driver set, one for the video card and one for the stereo. Make sure that these are the same versions. I'd recommend a meatier card as some of the latest games and flight sims, Painkiller etc need a more powerful solution. Stereo gaming at 800*600 is similar in stress as 1600*1200 as two individual scenes are produced (one for each eye). Far Cry and CoD are quite demanding games. With a good card 5900xt which are tumbling in price you should have little trouble. AA (to get rid of jaggies) is not that important in stereo gaming as you already have two frames from different perspectives, which yields a cleaner picture. Try turning this off. AF some people say helps with image quality. In any case few people even with well overclocked machines with the latest cards can play Far Cry at decsent speed with all details on at 1024... Once the drivers are loaded test them out by right clicking on the screen, selecting properties and advanced then stereo3d. Enable and tryout the medical test and test application. Don't forget with the test app to set it for 800*600 at 60Hz and then save this as for all stereo... Away you go. Experiement and have fun. You will end up tweaking things a bit as you will have your own personal preferences... Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Annonymous what resizing have you tried when you say computer...is it through the control panel? Eg right click screen > properties > advanced > Nvidia... Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob , did you realy try what you speak about ? It does not work very well from following reasons: 1) On the DLP projecotrs the color output creation in 60 Hz is not in perfect phase with input signal. The result is not prcise color wheel sync in the DLP projetocr = deformed colors in stereo. 2) Image at 60 Hz is not watchable for longer time, especialy when the scene contains white. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Yep have it all up and running. Have you? or Are you just bringing up issues already discussed in the thread. The colour wheel issue is not severe at all and can be minimised according to Johns advice above or eliminated totally by running in native mode at 1024 and accepting a slightly croped image. As for 60hz is not watchable for a long time. I this would seriously suggest that you have not got this set up or are very sensitive to this. 60hz on a monitor is not the same as 60hz on an LCD, dlp or projector. Try setting an LCD to a 60hz refresh rate as an example - how much flicker is there? Sim,ialrly with DLP, this is further cut down by the fact the image you see is not the primarly image but a secondry image from a screen. Also if you read here about movie theaters you may be surprised to find out that 35mm projectors work at 24hz. Do you get a 'flicker' problem in movie houses? If not then why with a dlp projector?.... http://fl.essortment.com/mmfilmprojec_rlkf.htm Go figure...24hz. If you have this set up one thing you could try is making sure light from any other source is eliminated else you get a 'out of phase' flicker effect with the lights at 50Hz and the glasses at 30... One of the first issues people have with this generation dlp stuff is rainbows.. Have you experienced this? What projector do you have? Unclebob Here's my set up by the way... AMD Barton 2500, A7V8X-X, 512 RAM, X1 DLP (bought from ebuyer for about £500) Vid cards GF3Ti200, ATI 9800 Pro and awaiting a 6800... So for £500 I have a movie theatre with better contrast and picture than the local UGI as well as an excellent 3d gaming machine as well as a massive sports screen thanks to a TV capture card... | ||
| Scott Warren Rating: N/A |
Unclebob, FYI, all professional film projectors have either a bisected or trisected shutter, and therefore show an actual display frame rate of 48 fps or 72 fps. (Of course, every 2 or every 3 pictures will be identical with these setups, but it DOES eliminate the flicker problem) Scott | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Scott thanks for that. That site about 35mm projectors doesn't mention anything regarding this. So please correct me if I am wrong but as there are only 24 frames per second on a 35mm film, then the tri(bi)sected shutter must 'flash' each frame two or three times before moving to the next. Similar to 100hz vers 50hz TVs. Then. I'd always wondered why there was such a fuss about refresh rates when film couldn't have more frames than 24. Looking at a projected image rather than the source CRT, TV also must help soften (if thats the right word) any flicker. Certainly on my set up flicker is not noticable - unless of course you are projecting large white areas which is unlikely given the content of todays games. And of course it seems peoples sensitivity varies on this... All the best Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Alatar, You need to sync your shutters to some multiple of the COLOR WHEEL speed of the DLP projector. DLP projectors actually project a sequence of single color images (Red,Green,Blue) very rapidly one after another which your brain fuses into one single full color image . If your shutters are not perfectly sync'd to the speed of the color wheel in the projector (which is seperate from whatever refresh rate you are feeding the projector), you will be interrupting the sequence of colors that make up the final image (i.e cutting out the blue portion of the image for one frame). This would cause color phasing. It would seem that the lowest possible speed (meaning the most flicker that would be acceptable) you could turn your shutters while remaining in as close sync as possible with the color wheel would help to reduce phasing. Lcd should not be susceptible to this phasing. Just a thought | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
Yes, I understood that actually, as you will read above where I was explaining that it was important that the sync (i.e. equal velocity) was important but not the phase (i.e. where in the color-wheel rotation the shutter opened). This is because the double-speed projectors I have rotate the color-wheel at 120Hz and have four (not three -- the fourth one is white) panels in the wheel thus giving 480 fields per second. Each image is displayed for 8 fields (R-G-B-W-R-G-B-W) so if you block any consecutive four of those fields -- no matter where you start -- the remaining four fields still make up a correct image (eg R-G- - - - -B-W): you still get one field of each color. By the way, I did get this to work moderately well, but it was noisy and scary. In the end we went with a polarized system and I am glad we did. Now if we can just persuade someone to manufacture a single-chip stereo DLP projector as our fearless leader has been pleading for, we will all be in heaven. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I wonder if updating the software in the X1 will fix the color wheel speeds? Anyone try this? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
How do you want to upgrade the software ? Is it possible to open the projector and re-encode the chipset ? | ||
| ihate56k Rating: N/A |
I think it is firmware upgradable, I read somewhere something about a recent upgrade changing the lamp life from 3000 to 4000 hours, the link is below http://members.shaw.ca/technut/x1faq/ | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
You need to buy the USB cable and use the software they provide on the site. It looks a little consfusing (considering the stakes, I am not sure if I have the guts to do it.) | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hmm, they are up to 4.3... and I bought mine a couple of months ago and it 4.1 Here is the link on the infocus site: http://www.infocus.com/service/x1/x1software.asp?site_lang=1&site_region=1& Great projector. I'll hunt around and see if I have a USB A to USB B cable... I'd seen the technut link before but missed the use of filters... Awaiting more availabilty of 6800s before experiementing some more. Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
What is SYNC THRESHOLD and OVERSCAN. Does OVERSCAN apply to SVGA input? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
What is SYNC THRESHOLD and OVERSCAN. Does OVERSCAN apply to SVGA input? | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
Ok, reverting back to the original point of this thread, I can confirm that the following works very well -- well enough to show at SIGGRAPH (probably the world's premiere conference for graphics and display) without any concern at all for the quality level: Source of glasses : IMAX Source of filters : Unknown Source of screen : Porrmann and Atwater 14' diagonal Video Card, op system and Drivers : FireGL 1000, PharLap TNT, proprietary Refresh rate : 96 Hz to projectors, projectors ignore this and display at 60Hz Projectors : 2 x Dell 4100MP Any special projector settings : very careful alignment over the whole screen area (needs 6DOF mount) Flicker and Ghosting : Non-existent except in very high-contrast scenes, then mild The only complaint I have is that matching color output to the artists original is very hard to impossible due to the tints of the polarizers, screen and glasses. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Alatar amazing set up. Up much would all that cost? Unclebob | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
Not counting the computers and software used to drive it, maybe $10K. But that's way way down from our previous CRT-projector-based stations, which were in the order of $30 - 40K. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Alatar Thanks for that, its getting there then. I remember when Plasmas were that price and what are they now... Still 10k is out of my reach. But I have to say that you have one sweet job. Unclebob | ||
| EJocys Rating: N/A |
Looks like, for small rooms projector "NEC LT240K" is ideal, because with: Zoom 1.10x (1.00x - 1.20x range is available) and Throw Distance: 3.4m you can create 200x150cm Image (Screen Aspect Ratio: 4:3, Screen Diagonal: 250cm) This projector is Nr.2 on TOP-15 on http://www.projectorcentral.com/portable-computer-projectors.htm Retail price is about £3500-£3800, but you can buy one for just $1720 in USA: http://shopper.cnet.com/NEC_LT240K_Multimedia_Projector/4014-3180_9-30538246.html P.S.: UK people are not so happy about that (but they can buy ticket to USA. Still it will be cheaper to pay VAT than buy from local London shop for $3700) Other problem of course is to adjust two images together. We know that Digital Keystone Correction is shit. DLP projectors with "Lens Shift" feature for that is damn too expensive. What about other solutions? For example: external "lens shift" lenses for digital projectors from "Schneider Optics": http://www.schneideroptics.com/projection/digital_projection/pdf/cine-digitar.pdf Maybe these lenses cost $500 (I don't know yet) but it is still 10 times cheaper than same solution inside "professional" projector. Maybe someone can look in to that and to post some thoughts here? | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
>Other problem of course is to adjust two images together. I was aware of that issue when working on our latest system, and I was even prepared to offset the images vertically and lose some usable display height (note this only works if you have access to the software sources). However, it turned out to be a non-issue: as long as each projector is on a six DOF (degree of freedom) mount, I found that you can get very close correlation between the two images, even with relatively short throws, by careful adjustment of the relative projector positions. The net distortion of the resulting stereo was well below detectable levels. | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Alatar : 3 DOF are not enought ? Do you realy need the additional 3 DOF (probably translation) ? Are you familiar with MSU montage (see GeoWall www) ? Is this sufficient ? | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
Well, I have to say that I can't really be sure. The mount we have has 6DOF so I have quite naturally been using all of them as required to get the right alignment. I suppose I really should try aligning it using less DOF's before saying that they are all required. Yes, you are correct that the other three are translation axes. I have to say that one DOF (forward-backward) essentially duplicates the effect of the zoom on the projector lens, and another (up-down) is always set at the minimum practical spacing, so you may well be right. There is, however, a noticable difference in effect between right-left translation and yaw, as only the latter changes the keystoning. No, I didn't know about the type of mounting you mention but I will look into it now -- thanks for the tip. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hello all. I have an Optima H30 DLP projector running out of an Nvidia 5700 using Razor 3d shutterglasses. It's at 60 MHz but stereo will not sync with the projector. Does anyone have advice on how to get stereo to work with this setup? Thanks! | ||
| mark Rating: N/A |
I can get the infocus x2 for not much more than the x1 has anyone compared the stereo picture with these two so I can decide which one to get As I will mainly be using it for this purpose Regards Mark | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob, How is image being cropped at 1024*768 by x1 - is it big issue or it is just smallest one? Sergey. Ps i am thinking of buing that machine. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Mark the only difference I believe between the two is the chip that cleans up video/Tv type inputs as this is missing from the X2. The X2 is brighter. The X1 is cheaper and should be better due to its signal clean up chip (Farugia its not the right spelling) if you are using it with non PC sources. I am thinking of buying a second X1 off ebay next year and go for the full polorised setup. For that you would need two projectors as similar as possible and as cheap as possible. Sergey I did the homebrew projector type thing last year so was used to screens being croped I found this no big issue but on my homebrew I lost the space evenly around the screen. You are losing 200 pixels and 100 pixels which can be significant. I have not bought a Nvidia 6800 card yet as I am waiting for availability and some price drops so my experiements have been put on hold... I have not tried adjusting the image using the nvidia driver and then playing in stereo to see if the settings hold. I see no reason why this should not be so. Also perhaps using powerstrip a centred game in 3d stereo could be achieved using a custom setting in powerstrip set of using a definable hot key... Lots of options to play with then. Perhaps someone with a Nvidia X1 setup may like to experiement as I am unlikely to swallow a £300 video card until October... By the way for those following this thread this is a way of eliminating the blue ghosting that you can see. Sergey you can reduce this in any case by adjusting the X1 to a warm colour palette and adjusting contract, red, green and blue levels...this can then be saved as one of the user setups...I found it nonexistant in the Nvidia test application and annoying in Serious Sam - because of the textures and colour palette that the developers used. In Postal 2 then not much blue ghosting at all... As for an issue I had earlier on. When you ceiling mount the X1 the stereo is reveresed so the left frame goes to the right eye etc etc. Several people offered help using the hot keys to 'reverse' the blanking on the specs or using the driver to 'flip' the picture (filps the controls as well...). Best solution so far was to get a stereo (male) to two mono's (female) jack and a two mono's (male) to a stereo (female) jack... All the best for now. Unclebob PS I will get round to a web page the proble is family work and holidays... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I tried the powerstrip thing to center and shrink the image. Very little success. The 'cropping' is not really a problem in racing games, ect. but can be annoying in shooters (parts of the hud are missing.) Moreover, it irks me that it is SO CLEAR in 1024... I should be able to get that at native 800! (Also, you are taxing your Video Card more by rendering 1024, only to have it shrunk down to 800!) | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
ok, i've bought X1 to test it and at least to have a good sreen for video and games last week. Projector is realy cool - crisp, amazing contrast, good brightness. So i have really enjoed it. One night i have spend on wathing 2 films and playing FAR CRY. But stereo is really smth different. First flikering is more then noticeble. To decrease it i have decreased number of light/white details on screen by controling contrast. Ok, now i can live with it. I still see it, but overall it's suitable. Blue hosting is existend but it's not big issue. Also i fell that the resolution of projector is falling in stereo mode. I don't see such crisp picture in stereo and i don't why. The only question i have now - is sacrificing the quality of the picture in that way better then just using red/green glasses? Sergey. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Can you let me know what your setup is? My ONLY problem is blue ghosting, and it is big unless you switch to 1024. I am wondering if it ends up differently with every videocard/glasses combination. BTW, I had no trouble with flicker (might be why I have bad blue ghosting!) My setup. GF4 ti 4200 XP 2200 TERMINATOR 3D glasses (basically, IO glasses) | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Time to talk to Infocus I think guys. Played with this myself last night as I sold my 9800pro and my GF6800 is on its way so I put back the GF3 Ti200. I was happy with the stereo at 800*600 until I upped to 1024 and set the input mode to native. Wow. IMAX city. My thoughts are that running at 800*600 somehow by passes the 'native' processing that 1024 gets. So the results are different. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this before I get in contact with them. I intend to go to them on the ticket that they are missing a huge market because they are unaware of potential this has for stereo gaming and that this is the only issue we have found that needs resolution. Honestly I cannot believe how good the image is 1024 and native. By the way guys I've reformated so have no games to test on. But using the 'nvidia' screen positioning tools I managed to centre the test image somewhat. Anyone tried this with a gamne yet? I built a projector and lived with this cropping before but its not the ideal solution. Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
email sent to Infocus (PR and Investor relations) - After all if they can get this to work they'd have a killer product on the market for stereo3d at a sub $800 price point. John, Mike I picked up your names on the press releases page so I hope you don't mind me emailing you guys. I bought an X1 for my home use, principally large screen PC gaming. One of my hobbies is 3d imagery, rather like that produced by the shows at 3d IMAX theatres and Disney. This can easily be achieved on small monitors using 'shutter glasses' http://www.edimensional.com/ and NVIDIA graphics cards and drivers to give an excellent 'real life' 3d effect in games and 3d (IMAX movies). The glasses work by blocking one eye whilst the picture for the other is displayed, then reversing and by cycling through very quickly - at 60 times a second a real 3d image (in and out the screen) is generated. These glasses also work partially with your X1, X1a and X2 projectors and others. And there is a whole group of people playing with Infocus projectors and this technology to give 'holodeck' effect for PC gaming and IMAX movies in their living rooms: http://www.stereo3d.com/discus/messages/21/2716.html?1095667368 By the way my handle on this forum is 'Unclebob'. When using 1024*768 PC input resolution using the projectors native mode the 3d effect is perfect - however only the top left 800*600 pixels of the image are displayed. When the input resolution set to 800*600 a synchronisation issue becomes apparent and the image quality deteriorates. This synchronisation issue occurs for all resolutions when set the projector is set to 4:3 or 16:9 as well. Could it be that when set to a 800*600 input resolution in native, the projector 'adopts' the same image processing path as 800*600 4:3 ? Is there any one that I can draw attention to this in Infocus for a possible fix? If you can find a 'fix' this would mean that Infocus could give customers a real 3d IMAX experience out of the box. This could give you a whole new customer base. After all hard core games happily drop $400+ on a graphics card every 6-9months so why not $1000 on a 3d capable gaming projector? What 'gamer' wouldn't want life size 3d gaming, with real depth and in and out of screen effects just like at the IMAX. Seriously the image quality and effects that the X1 can do is that good. I hope that you appreciate that this is a non standard technical issue, with a great potential 'up-side' for InFocus and that going through tech support or customer services would probably not get very far. Thanks for your time, any help or pointers would be appreciated. Unclebob (couldn't wait guys!) | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Dreams Dreams Guys i wnatg to twll you ine thing - my projector do converting from 1024 to 800 in very good way. No cropping, no issues. Expt flickering of course. Sergey. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
You've got have a dream If you don't have a dream How you gonna make a dream come true? "Captain Sensible" "Rogers and Hammerstein" Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Can you let us know what revision you have on you X1? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Can you let us know what revision you have on you X1? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
yap, i will check it today. But i find out that some games (nfs undrground for example) have such issue in 1024 as cropping. It seems to me that it depens not only on projector, but on aplication also. Anyway the flickering is much bigger issue then blue ghosting. I will try to play with analyth. Sergey | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hi mine is 4.2 I'm thinking of trying to hack the bios if my calls/emails to Infocus fall on stoney ground. It does seem that 1024 is processed differently in NATIVE mode as the image is crystal clear all-be-it cropped at 800*600 top right. 800*600 seems to be treated the same as when the projector is set to 4:3 for all input resolutions. If the bios is set like a vid card or mother board bios the 'path' a data stream should take will be set at some point outside the detail processing. So it may be possible of just cutting and pasting the Flag for the processing route of 1024 NATIVE over all the Flags for 800*600...so that the processing does not follow the 4:3 path at all. Save then flash. This I think will be last ditch for me but I think I will try it. After all you can always reflash...if it starts again. Will certainly try 4.3 when I get some time. But perhaps some of the earlier bios's can solve this little problem? Looks like I may have to dig out a USB cable and do some messing... Unclebob Like everything slowly slowly catchee monkey. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Cool. Please let me know how it works out! I wrote INFOCUS too and got no reply (they still have my $150 rebate too). As far as the flickering goes, I found that a completely darkened room helps. Even with ambient light, though I don't notice it. During MAFIA is SLIGHTLY noticeable. Mabye it is a function of the glasses? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
No reply from infocus yet so will try higher up the tree. Using the advanced timing properties (custom settings) in the Nvidia driver (XP, 61.77) you can set the pixel depth and height for a particular resolution. Thus you can offset the picture to compensate if you wish to play in perfect stereo 3d at 1024 NATIVE on the X1. Desktop set to 800*600 launch the game at 1024 and volia. True you still loose 100 pixels left and right and some on the vertical, but the cross hairs are central and you soon don't notice with all the moving around you do. Painkiller is great like this. You can even adjust convergence to get a perfect weapon on screen as well. Not an ideal solution but a step forward. Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Has anyone tested the Optoma EzPro 758 or 759 DLP projectors. I believe they could work with active stereo. If anybody has one within reach I would be glad to help test via email, being that I cant seem to find one to test neer by. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I think any DLP will work but with different artifacts. Try to visit some stores and check it before you buy. May be you will find a model with less artifacts and me & Bob will spend abother 1k$ Also i have noticed that less contrast/more dark games have much less flikering (or not noticeble). That is why pinkiller/quake1/2 looks fantastic. Sergey. PS I forgot to check rev. number, sorry. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob -- Where can you find an X1 bulb for £60? Thanks! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Dabs had them. But have heard odd things about Dabs - no telephone number and things like that... Besides 4000hrs at 8hrs a day is about 2years. 8hrs a day is lot. So it will probably average 4-6, which pushes this out to 3-4 years. Will definitely be on the upgrade cycle by then. Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I'm looking at acquiring a dual projector (high resolution) setup suitable for club use (audiences 30-50). Has anyone had sucess in this area? | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
Absolutely. See my previous posts (starting at August 18th) in the this thread. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Tried edims newest driver with a disabled Nvidia Stereo driver with my dlp projector set up. Horrible. Didn't work properly on all settings. Real shame. This is not to say that people with other cards than Nvidia would not have a different experience. But for a: 6800, Win XP, Nvidia Stereo driver disabled Output a DLP projector at 800*600 or 1024 Native 60Hz set for either LCD1, LCD2 or CRT. Driver settings tested interlaced, normal/reveresed, page flip Doesn't work Nvidia stereo drivers work very well for 1024 native (cropped screen) and 800*600 some blue ghosting (minimal) Thought you guys should know. Will get round to firmware flashing as soon as I can dig out my old 19inch monitor. By the way using the glasses from the monitor out post of the x1 as opposed to between the PC and and the X1 doesn't work... Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Is there anyone in the UK that can help me choose suitable projectors, video cards, polarizing filters, software, for a system to show 3d videos at a club? For someone who really knows his stuff I'm not adverse to recompensing them for thier time. If you can help out then contact me roger@resourceman.co.uk | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Roger I'm in Brighton where are you? Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I hate to break into the conversation but after reading this thread for a few months, I'm finally on the brink of purchasing an X1. What I'd like to know from those who have tried or can offer some help, would I be able to connect a stand alone DVD player's S-vid output to the projector's VGA input (bypassing the dcdi chip according to previous threads that destroys the interlacing) via an adapter to view 3-D movies? Does such an adapter exist? I'd like to avoid buying another PC to run movies in stereo. Thanks | ||
| PiXeL Rating: N/A |
I am glad to see this thread is still going strong. I just dropped some change on a 6800GT and am back in business with my x2. I've been playing painkiller for the last two hours and am stunned at the image quality. Set the projector to 800 x 600, select 4:3 aspect ratio (not native), download e-dimensionals R3D Controller software from their site, activate sotware before launching app, launch the game at 1024x768 @ 75hz (yes, 75 hz!) and enjoy! I had to play around with game graphics settings (dynamic lights, etc...) but the end result is nothing short of amazing! Flicker free big screen stereo! | ||
| PiXeL Rating: N/A |
Just a little more info. Flicker is slightly noticable in well lit areas. The best part is that their isn't any image cropping if you select 4:3 aspect ratio. I had to play with the in game settings quite a bit to get it to look right (backplane adjustment and depth). I will try out a few different games this evening, but painkiller rocks! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Can the X1 output an interlaced signal? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
PiXeL great news mate. Painkiller is excellent - I know! Have not tried 1024 at 75hz. Will try tonight. By the way what firmware version are you using on the X2? Do you use the R3D controller to reverse the glasses...what do you use it for?? All the best Unclebob | ||
| PiXeL Rating: N/A |
I am using the latest firmware rev that is on the web. I will check later when i fire up my other computer. Yes, I use the R3D Controller to reverse the glasses. I ceiling mounted the X2 and needed a solution to reverse they sync. Start R3D first, then start the Nvidia test program. Seems to work pretty consistently. I have the nvidia drivers set up to activate on hot key. Color phasing with is still an issue but since painkiller is lacking bright colors, it isn't much of an issue. I also tried a rollercoster simulation and the effect was great! Color phasing not an issue with me but may be with others. I can't get Far Cry to work well to save my life. NFSU Demo is excellent as well. MOH Pacific Assault looks good but it is difficult to differentiate friend from foe. PiXeL | ||
| Peter B Rating: N/A |
Hi guys, I've a slightly different question: for my application I need to ensure that the projector correctly synchronizes to the graphics card output (no frame dropping/garbling/whatever). I (sort of) understand that there are a number of tricks around to get nice sync between shutter glasses and projector, such as driving the card at a higher frequency than the projector (although I don't get how you can't get a saccaded motion when a frame drops from time to time, but that's another story). But I NEED to set up the proj and the card at the same frequency, and get them properly synchronized. Any idea how to do this with current projectors? Thanks for any input. Peter | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
Thought I'd add some comments and questions for those whoe are interested in the Infoucs X1 for active stereo projection. I just got my X1 last night and had some time to tinker. First off, I noticed the picture a bit dim but I'm projecting onto a dark green wall... silver screen to be built soon. In complete darkness it looks fantastic, even with a 140" diag projection size sitting about 15 feet away. I hooked up my stand alone p-scan DVD player and got a great picture from component out to s-video in but no 3-D playback with a field sequential disc even after working with the player and projector settings. I'm guessing the DCDi chip is doing its job. I'm going to try s-video or component out to VGA in on the projector. This might work (fingers crossed) as I hooked my PC up to the X1 and had some pretty good results with DVD playback in 800x600 60hz at 4:3. I didn't notice any flicker whatsoever. Correct me if I'm wrong, going through the VGA port bypasses the DCDi chip and projects an interlaced image, at leat with a PC. Very dim picture though but having dark projection surface might have something to do with it. I worked with brightness/contrast settings and color gains. Got some great stereo effects (right in my face) but still a dim picture. Turning up the brightness and contrast helped but blue ghosting was very noticable. Bringing the blue gain down to about 30 was OK but colors were muddy. I need to tinker some more and find a happy medium. Any X1 owners have any 3-D video viewing settings they've been happy with? Any owners have less ghosting problems with a silver or white screen? Any tips on gainig maximum brigtness for active playback? Thanks. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Matt Blue ghosting - look for Johns post above about his colour settings. No blue ghosting - look for my posts about 1024 native mode. 3d is perfect (at 1024 native) clean and no ghosting. You have to live with a croped image though. Brightness - mine projects onto a Ikea (Walmart equiv) white blackoutblind. With a 60w bulb and a desklamp the screen is readily visible. Its the surface you are projecting on... Flicker - do NOT use shutter glasses with household lighting on. The flicker you get comes from the interference of those lights and is too harsh. Move/DVD playback - any search on the puppetkitekid on this forum should put you straight. pkk is the expert on this. Have fun Unclebob | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the tips Bob. I figured as much the lack of a screen was the cause for a dim picture. What's your refresh rate at 1024? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
60hz Unclebob | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
Hmmm... I tried PC settings at 1024 at 60hz. Projector is set to native. All I get is screen flashing. I wonder if it's because I'm using the H3D activator. I tried some pictures with 3DCombine... no flashing and it works great, for pictures. I'm wanting to view movies. Incredible though! No ghosting at all despite the cropping but I can live with that. So any help on why all I get is the screen flashing when using the H3D activator? Is there any other way to activate my shutter glasses when using stereoscopic player? Thanks for putting up with all the newbie questions. | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
OK... nevermind. I just tweaked some graphics card settings and done. Amazing! NO GHOSTING ON DVDs!! Now if I could only figure out how to center the image. Any suggestions? I'm using an ATI9800. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hello, I want to buy a DLP-Projector for 3D with Shutterglasses and 2D for HDTV,but more for 3D. What Projektor Chip Resolution is the best,1024 or 800 Pixel?,1024 has double price and Pixels,can you see this double also on praxis?or is the difference to 800x600 very little?That´´s better is to buy a second 800x Projector for flicker free passiv System? Thomas3D | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Thomas the issue is more if the projector will work with shutter glasses. If you read this thread you'll find out that not all DLP projectors work at all. Those that do work well but have limitations. If you can find someone who has one XGA working at 1024 native then go for it. If price is the major issue then the X1 is cheap cheerful and gives good results. A passive system would givethe best results but do a search on LCD projectors which are cheaper and those that don't polorise their light would be great. You would need to invest in filters, polorised glasses and a screen that preserves polorisation. All the info is here if you use the search tool Unclebob | ||
| Jesper Rating: N/A |
To get a screen that preserves polarization(silverscreen)is expencive. At least what I have heard. | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
I bought a non-depolarizing screen about a year ago from Porrmann&Awater (now Silverfabric). I don't remember the price, but it was only just a little (about one third) more than an ordinary projection screen. I can't see any prices at http://silverfabric.com/html_english/index_english.htm, but unless they've chanced their price strategy, the silver screen should not keep you from making a passive setup. Unfortunately, I got a new job, and never got to test the screen (I bought it for use at my work back then). Thomas Porrman once posted in this forum... if he's here, he might shed some light on the price issue. Thomas? Alex | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
My company (Gali-3D www.gali-3d.com) is taking care about Silverfabric product resdistribution for east-Eurpean region (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovak Repulbic ...). If you are from this region I can give you a price list. Eventual small samples of the screen material for sersously interested clients are availabe as well for testing ... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Thanks for answer Unclebob. I tend to cheaper 800x Projector for Pal-Videos and 3D Games. Will waiting for cheaper Price on HDTV Projectors and HDTV Videocam. What is the difference at X1 and X2.(out of,unless price)Is The X2 better for 3D with Shutterglasses? Thomas | ||
| Kevin Rating: N/A |
Hi Guys, Just picked up what seems to be virtually the very last X1 Projector available in the UK for the amazing sum of £399 + Vat. Will slot a FX5900 in to my machine tonight and wait for a projector screen to arrive from Ebay. Am picking up a pair of Edimensional Glasses next week direct from the UK franchise as they are based just outside Swindon where I live. I have a question though...if I ceiling mount the X1, because it will be upside down, does that mean that I will have to reverse the stereo by rewiring the glasses. Thanks Kevin | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Kevin if its the wireless type then they have a button. If a wired you can try the edmin contoller. Nvidia's drivers do not give a hot key for this (it only works in the medical test image). You can get a stero reverse plug from maplins... The X2 lacks the video clean up chip and is a little brighter else much the same. Great price. I'd have been tempted had I known and gven the polorised setup a go. Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
MH pity you are not Uk based. Want to go further next year and get a passive stereo system up based on two Infocus X1s. Alexander Oest the portable screen is 1870 Euros...way out of us hobbyists price range. Anyone had a luck with a DIY? Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
MH been to your site...all the en pages are the same as the cz ones. just in case you didn't know. Unclebob | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Unclebob: I did not find time to translate all the pages from Cz to English. Until now only References , Contacts, Movies and Archive are in English ... Accorsing passive setup: We had tested dual BenQ DLP machines at 2200 ANSI, 1024x768 . Price on Czech market is about $1900 per one ... The results were wery good (in combination with SilverFactory screen) ... According I am not located in UK: I will try to calulate a price offer for you for 1900x2000 SilverFactroy material including shipping to UK ... Are you interesting ? Let me know if you want to have material samples before ordering ... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
MH just concerned that the web developers had messed up. Had that happen to me once when they released the corporata site they'd forgot to remove the place holders. Oh the drama that day! Would be interested in getting a price but this is a long term project for me, as my wife and kids play a significant part in our day to day expenditure. U N C L E B O B I S H E R E at Y A H O O CoUK Good luck with the venture. I know a Guy who wants a set up for a night club...I'll ask and put him on to you if he serious. Unclebob | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
Unclebob I admit 1870 € is expensive. The screen I bought back then was just the cloth, wihtout frame of any kind. That probably accounts for the lower price (which I still don't remember exactly). Alex | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
I was able to get a stand alone DVD player to work with an X1 projector via component out to VGA in and fed the projector a progressive signal. The picture was bright, flicker wasn't noticable, and interlacing lines were obsolete, but that damn ghosting... Anyone have suggestions on defeating ghosting with this projector in active mode (aside from buying another X1 and going passive) or am I trying to fight a battle I can't win? I guess I'd have to settle with playing through my PC with a cropped 1024x768 picture to avoid any ghosting but live with a dim picture. | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
More on the Stand-alone DVD player issues... I was able to get less ghosting by tweaking the settings as stated on another post above but I'm still not happy with the results. To obtain acceptable ghosting (if there is such a thing) I ended up with a very yellowed image that was very dim. Not as dim as through my PC but still not ideal. Would it be possible to take into consideration that if a 1024x768 picture at 60hz eliminates ghosting from a field sequential image when played through a PC to the X1, then if I were to output or convert to a res of 1024x768 from my stand alone DVD player to the X1 then there should be no ghosting during playback? Is there any way to output a 1024x768 or higher image from a stand alone DVD player to display through a DLP projector? I've gone crosseyed. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
The change would have to be done at the input side of the connection and I don't know of any 1024x768 DVD players. Why, might I ask, don't you use your PC? There's some options, like cabling and add in cards, that may serve your needs. John | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
I have an ATI9800 and can't to too much with stereo except interlaced viewing. I should've kept the Nvidia. I'd hate to shell out the money for a new PC card as the projector alone already set me back a bit. I use Stereoscopic Player and the H3D activator for DVD playback. The picture is extremely dark in interlaced mode. Plus the scan lines are evident disrupting the picture as opposed to a nice solid picture via progressive out to VGA in on the projector(not to mention I'm lazy and don't like lugging my PC back and forth to watch 3-D movies but that's a minor point). Any suggestions to bump up the res from the DVD player? Any more detail on the options you had mentioned? Thanks. | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
Not a promotion but would this work? http://www.neuneo.com/products/DVD/hddvd_feature.asp | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Matt I have no brightness issues at all with the cropped image. I guess you are using ATI and edim. What are the new V4 drivers like? Unclebob | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
Yep, edim + ATI = CRAP. Very dim picture. I tried working with the new drivers and after about a half hour of frustration figured it wasn't worth the headache. This is one of the reasons I want to go with a stand alone player as I mainly watch movies only. It's a no-brainer. I ordered the NeuNeo HD DVD deck. Supposedly it can operate at 1024x768 at 60hz via VGA output and higher. Seems like there's some good reviews on the net as a stand alone but I'll give it a shot with the X1 to see if this ghosting issue can be resolved. If it works for PC hopefully it'll work with on a stand alone. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hi guys just found this little gem. Cheap rear projection screen material. Here's the link: http://www.avforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-84261.html Basically available in the UK is a geofabric called Terram... Now only if we could find cheap polorising material Unclebob | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
Finally got the HD DVD stand alone player. Tried all HD modes, VGA, SVGA, XGA etc. and nothing. After 3+ hours of tinkering, nothing worked. Makes a nice 2D player but not for 3D. I give up... passive is definitely the way to go. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Another DLP projector seems to work out of the box the Dell DLP 3300MP ... Thanks to djlins By djlins on Friday, December 10, 2004 - 03:09 am: Just thought I would let you know. After extensive playing around with PowerStrip I Was actually getting somewhere, I could get the phasing to a 2 minute cycle. However, sod that now because, As luck would have it my 3200MP shafted on me a little while back (Although it didnt seem lucky at the time). But I have now got a 3300MP as a replacement, and I have to say, it is absolutely awesome. I plugged it in, and it all just worked first time. The image was reversed, so I have to wear the glasses upside down, but looking out across the island on far cry on a 10 foot, by 5 foot screen and I can see exactly why I went thru all this to get it working.. fantbloomintastic ) happy christmas all heheh. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Someone asked about Optoma projector compatibility with frame-sequential 3D. The following post on 3dtv @ yahoogroups http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/3dtv/message/10087 advises that the Optoma 739 is compatible with frame-sequential 3D from 60Hz up to 85Hz. The Optoma 739 is 1024x768 resolution. When I tested the 739 with a NTSC field-sequential 3D DVD (Alien Adventure) I wasn't able to get it to work in 3D (lots of crosstalk) - however in the message above wbloos reports that he was able to get a field-sequential 3D NTSC DVD to work. Cheers, Andrew. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Infocus X1a I've got it for a couple of weeks now, and just today I found out it works @ 75 Hz (projector gives 74 Hz), without any cropping or desync. Flickering is greatly reduced as opposed to 60 Hz. Tested for about 1-2 hours. Geforce FX 5900 256 Mb (Jaton) ED wireless and wired Nvidia 61.77 drivers. Geert | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I guess the X1a and the X2 have something in common. I first thought that the X2 couldn't really do stereo in 75 Hz (see posts from Pixel), but now I do. Geert | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I just got the Edimensional glasses and their 3dpro DVD 2d to 3d conversion software. I'm running a Gateway 901 Media Center PC with an X1 at 1024 x 768 at 60hz. When I watch a dvd I get constant color shifting... has anybody else run into this or know a good solution? Thanks, C | ||
| Alexis Rios Rating: N/A |
I have a Optoma EP741 DLP projector. I also have I-o Display systems old 3DTV (60hz TV glasses) I also have 19 3D titels including various, cool IMAX DVD's encoded with 60hz 3D field sequential video. How do I make all of these things work together? I know my DLP is progressive, and I am trying field sequential. Without buying another DLP, and a video field splitter/processor, and poloroid glasses/ lens caps for 2 DLP projectors, What do I need? If I use VGA in, is there a way I can do this? I am only using the video inputs for now (RAW video signal) and the DLP seems to display it progressively. Please help me. | ||
| Peter Wimmer Rating: N/A |
You can try a computer-based approach if you have an NVIDIA graphics card. In this case, install the NVIDIA stereo driver (http://www.nvidia.com) and Stereoscopic Player (http://mitglied.lycos.de/stereo3d). Using a computer, you can try different refresh rates. Very likely stereo works at 60 Hz, but even 75 Hz and 85 Hz might work. When using 85 Hz, flickering isn't that noticeable anymore. Peter | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I just want you to know that I think you did a terrific job on this websight. | ||
| Abraham Shpitz Rating: N/A |
Hi I am new to 3D projection. My goal : To project 3D photos (JPS and JPEG-L&R). My Hardware:P4 XP PC+ Nvidia GeForce4 MX440+X3D Shutterglasses and respecive Dongle + Infocus X1. My Problem :which are the best settings for the projector and PC ? From what I have read on this page ,there are 2 options : 1-PC 800*600 @60Hz , X1 native. 2-PC 1024*730 @ 60hZ , x1 1024 native. Am I right ? Which is the best ? Please comment Abraham | ||
| darkbluesky Rating: N/A |
Hi, If I have understood well, no DLP is running a more of 60Hz? (Exception of DepthQ). Then, what means that V frecuency is 100 Hz or 120 Hz, like in some Benqs or Acer PD725p? http://www.acer.es/acereuro/page9.do?dau34.oid=11309&UserCtxParam=0&GroupCtxParam=0&dctx1=14&ctx1=ES&crc=3637542590 | ||
| darkbluesky Rating: N/A |
I have found this in avforums, although it's inside the DLP Rear projection TVs forum, it talks about projectors techs, it's pretty interesting as he said that the color wheel when it turns at 2x, really turns at 120Hz not a 60Hz, and that the first generation DLPs were the only that turned at 1x (60 Hz). If this is true, the majority of projectors out there(which have 2x color wheel speed) will be *potentially* able to reach 120 Hz...¿? http://www.avforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-176864.html What do you think? | ||
| darkbluesky Rating: N/A |
From http://allhome.powerfulhosting.com/prod.itml/icOid/730 "DLP Rainbow Artifacts For readers unfamiliar with the issue, let's focus a bit on DLP rainbow problems and how these two units compare. First, every single chip DLP projector uses a spinning color wheel with red, green, blue, and sometimes white (clear) segments. Color information on the screen is updated sequentially as the wheel spins. Because of this some people can see the colors separate in what is often described as a rainbow effect. Most can't see it. But for those who can, the visual distraction is enough to eliminate any enjoyment of the material being displayed. And even for some who cannot see the rainbows, the sequential refreshing can produce eyestrain, visual fatigue and headaches. One thing is known for certain--the faster the sequential color refresh rate, the less it is a problem. The percentage of the population that experiences any sort of adverse reaction to a DLP image decreases rapidly as the refresh rate increases. Thus the BenQ PB6100 has become the projector of choice under $1,000 due in large part to the fact that its 3x wheel is a full 50% faster than the standard 2x wheels of other DLP products in that price range. The earliest DLP projectors had wheels rotating 60 times per second. The wheel had a single panel of red, green, blue, and white. So all pixels had color information updated once every 1/60 second. Many people found the rainbow artifacts intolerable at this speed. So on next generation units the wheel speed was increased to 120 cps, which is two rotations per 1/60 second or "2x" rotation speed. This significantly reduced the degree to which people were bothered by rainbow artifacts. Most DLP projectors built for presentation use today use 2x speed wheels. Nevertheless, many people still remain sensitive to rainbows even at 2x speed. So BenQ increased the rotation speed to 3x in the PB6100 and other models, thereby taking another significant step in reducing the problem. This contributed to making the low cost PB6100 extremely popular for home entertainment. But it is not a benefit for just home entertainment." Maybe if the projectors don't work for freq greater than 60 Hz, will be for other reasons, but not for the "limit of the color wheel speed", IMHO Maybe the ACER models with 120 Hz, or Benq with 100 Hz, really admit these frequencies...? | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
darkbluesky: The hig frequencey given in the projector specification means, the proejctro can accept this frequency on the input, but it downscales it internaly to 60 Hz = total corrpution of the stereo efect. | ||
| darkbluesky Rating: N/A |
I guess so...but why there are people here reporting that a Infocus X1 (or X1a I can't remember) is working at 85 Hz? | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Infocus X1 is the only one projector working diferently and realy trying to work at true 85 Hz. But it is not optimzied for stereoscopy - the images are out of phase = color distorsion of the result. | ||
| darkbluesky Rating: N/A |
Maybe the X3 too... http://forums.stereovision.net/viewtopic.php?topic=2155&forum=2&8 It seems that he reports also 85 Hz | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
I am pesimistic. 1024x768 reoslution require much more complex data procesing than 800x600. I do not belive the chip can do the processing at higer than 60 Hz frequency. Anybody had tested the X3 ? | ||
| Peter Wimmer Rating: N/A |
See the following list for more projectors supporting pageflipping at 60/75/85 Hz: http://www.stereo3d.com/discus/messages/3177/3347.html?#POST17542 | ||
| Ram Das (Gaudadasa) New member Username: Gaudadasa Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2006 Rating: N/A |
Active Stereo 3D works with Toshiba TS20 (60,75 and 85 Hz). It also works with Optoma EP739(60, 85Hz and 120Hz) However, active stereo fails with NEC WT610. It also marginally fails with Casio XJ 360 where you see rotating rainbow colors on both images. | ||
| Michal Husak (Husakm) Junior Member Username: Husakm Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2006  Rating: N/A |
Ram Das: It is impossible that active stereo work at 120 Hz with Optoma EP739. No chip in normal projector can do this - on such frequence works only InFocus DepthQ. | ||
| The Bunny (Bigbadbunny) New member Username: Bigbadbunny Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2006 Rating: N/A |
So what is it now? Does the EP 739 work on 120 Hz or not? | ||
| Peter Žiak (Hornet) New member Username: Hornet Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
Hi I use Benq PB 6240 (XGA) problemless with 85 Hz stereo setup (e-dimensional shutterglasses wired) For games , photos etc.this is very good, XGA! and cheap.I use this for flight simulators (FS 2004, condor soaring simulator). No other cheap PJ is working really on higher refresh (100 hz are only for MAC compatible signals) | ||
| Peter Wimmer (Peter_wimmer) New member Username: Peter_wimmer Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2006 Rating: N/A |
> Does the EP 739 work on 120 Hz or not? Definitely not. | ||
| Andrew Woods (Andrew_woods) New member Username: Andrew_woods Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
Earlier this year I led a project which tested a wide range of consumer DLP projectors to determine their level of compatibility with stereoscopic display using liquid crystal shutter (LCS) 3D glasses. At the end of the project we had tested 44 consumer grade single-chip DLP projectors. We found fifteen projectors that work well at up to 85Hz stereo in VGA mode. The 15 consumer grade projectors capable of 85Hz stereo are: Projector Make/Model (Resolution): Acer PD322 (1024x768) Acer PD523 (1024x768) Acer PH110 (854x480) BenQ MP610 (800x600) BenQ PB6240 (1024x768) Boxlight Raven (800x600) Casio XJ-360 (1024x768) NEC LT35 (1024x768) Optoma EP719 (1024x768) Optoma EP739 (1024x768) Plus U4-237 (1024x768) Plus U5 (1024x768) Sharp XR-10X (1024x768) Toshiba TDP-S8 (800x600) Yamaha DPX-530 (1024x576) 23 projectors would work at 60Hz stereo in VGA mode. More information about these results is available in this conference paper: http://www.cmst.curtin.edu.au/publicat/2006-35.pdf Woods, A.J., Rourke, T., Yuen, K.-L. (2006) "The Compatibility of Consumer Displays with Time-Sequential Stereoscopic 3D Visualisation" (Plenary Paper), in Proceedings of the K-IDS Three-Dimensional Display Workshop 2006, pg 7-10, Seoul National University, Seoul, South Korea, 21 August 2006}. Cheers, Andrew Woods. | ||
| Andrew Woods (Andrew_woods) New member Username: Andrew_woods Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
A more detailed paper is now available for download here: www.cmst.curtin.edu.au/publicat/2007-05.pdf The full reference for the paper is: Woods, A.J., Rourke, T., (2007) "The compatibility of consumer DLP projectors with time-sequential stereoscopic 3D visualisation", presented at Stereoscopic Displays and Applications XVIII, published in Stereoscopic Displays and Virtual Reality Systems XIV, Proceedings of SPIE Vol. 6490, San Jose, California, 29-31 January 2007. | ||
| Andrew Woods (Andrew_woods) New member Username: Andrew_woods Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
A web page listing 3D compatible and incompatible projectors has just been created here: http://www.3d.curtin.edu.au/3dmovies/projectors.html | ||
| Servan MOAL (Smoal) New member Username: Smoal Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi, I have just bought a Toshiba TDP S8 and it works fine at 800x600 and 85Hz. Many thanks to Andrew for your work, Servan MOAL | ||
| Dwayne Downing (Vomithaus) New member Username: Vomithaus Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2007 Rating: N/A |
OK, I finally fixed my blue ghosting problem on my InFocus X1 for good. Here's how... You need the wireless glasses and a DIOS microcontroller (or something along those lines) here is the code: DiosPro 'template.txt can be created/edited ' for your own startup template. func main() output 26 'Serial output port should be set as output input 27 dim eye1 as integer dim eye2 as integer again: if ioport(27)=0 then eye1=eye1+1 eye2=0 endif if ioport(27)=1 then eye2=eye2+1 eye1=0 endif if eye1=20 then high 26 if eye2=20 then low 26 goto again endfunc cut the signal wire to the ir transmitter on the dongle, put the input from the dongle into the input on the DIOS chip. Put the output to the transmitter on the output of the DIOS chip. Ground the transmitter to the DIOS chip. VIOLA.. no ghosting.. (In fact, MUCH less ghosting than on the CRT screen!) | ||
| Gabor Laufer (Gabor_laufer) New member Username: Gabor_laufer Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2006 Rating: N/A |
Everything is closed, I must ask here: Anyone knows that Nvidia have stereo 3d drivers for Windows Vista? | ||
| Andrew Woods (Andrew_woods) Junior Member Username: Andrew_woods Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
There is no Vista stereoscopic support from NVIDIA as yet. The latest beta drivers are available here: https://mtbs3d.com/cgi-bin/downloads.cgi | ||
| konstantinos (Costas3d) New member Username: Costas3d Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2006 Rating: N/A |
Hi. Can someone confirm this: (active stereo also marginally fails with Casio XJ 360 where you see rotating rainbow colors on both images)? | ||
| Andrew Woods (Andrew_woods) Junior Member Username: Andrew_woods Post Number: 31 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
Hi konstantinos, Thanks for your report. The "rotating rainbow colors" you describe is the rainbow effect - also called the colour breakup effect. This is common with low colour-wheel-speed single-chip DLP projectors, however some people are more sensitive to it than others. The Casio XJ360 has a 2X colour wheel which means that there are two cycles of the colour wheel per frame (at 60Hz). The colour wheel speed is 1.5X at 85Hz. See my paper on this topic for more background info: http://www.cmst.curtin.edu.au/publicat/2007-05.pdf Some higher end projectors provide a higher colour wheel speed (4X or 5X) but I'm not aware of any 4X or 5X projectors that will do 85Hz 3D. The rainbow effect has nothing to do with 3D compatibility. My expectation is that the rainbow effect will be equally visible in 2D vs. 3D. The type of content shown also affects the visibility of the rainbow effect. Higher contrast scenes (e.g. night scenes with bright highlights) usually exhibit more rainbow effect. The Casio XJ360 that we tested was completely 3D compatible at 85Hz and had a relatively low time offset (0.35ms). | ||
| Gabor Laufer (Gabor_laufer) New member Username: Gabor_laufer Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2006 Rating: N/A |
There is no Vista stereoscopic support from NVIDIA as yet. There may not be any. Vista doesn't seem to have the traditional "full screen mode". At least all those programs which do, when I try them under Vista, I get an error message stating "full screen mode is not supported". Gabor | ||
| J.J Obieta (Aldundia) New member Username: Aldundia Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2007 Rating: N/A |
We´ve recently bought a high end projector for viewing a real time stereoscopic application. The projector is a Barco Galaxy 7000 (about 80000 euro) with active infitec and the computer that runs the app has a Quadro FX 5600 on it. The application is developed in Quest3D and is not opengl based, it needs directx as it has a lot of HLSL effects. Nvidia only supports quad buffered active stereo (opengl based) and there is no official driver for directx stereo, just only some experimental ones. We´ve not still checked them, but i was wondering which is the best way connect projector to the computer. I´m going to use a dvi output and a 3-din vesa for color syncing... As i´m not sure that i can create active stereo usieng that drivers we are thinking of a backup plan. Quest3D can render two viewports, one for each eye,in one frame buffer and we can set intraocular distance with the cameras. That way we do not need the directx driver, just a dual output card (5600 has two dvi outputs) We are thinking of using a xpo 2a or xpo3 system from cyviz to convert both outputs to an active stereo signal... I was wondering what do u think of our problem and any advice or similar experiences will be welcomed. Thanks in advance | ||
| Gary Bilkus (Bilkusg) New member Username: Bilkusg Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2008 Rating: N/A |
I'm keen to buy a DLP projector which can do good quality 85Hz or better stereo - I already have everything else I need - but am having great difficulty finding any of the tested DLP projectors still available in the UK. Does anyone have any advice for current models which are known to work? I'm thinking of the Optoma EP 727 or EP 728 which appear to be near replacements for the EP719. Obviously I'm not keen to buy before I know it will work.... | ||
| ian carapeto (Ian) New member Username: Ian Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2010 Rating: N/A |
Hey all...great site!! I have been searching my Projector model to see if it will play 3D. It is a discontinued model BenQ W100! Can anyone tell me if it can. I have a PS 3 and i was told games like avatar 3D can be played through my DLP projector. I am very skeptical! | ||
| Manvendra Singh Chauhan (Maanavendra) New member Username: Maanavendra Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2010 Rating: N/A |
We have a Computer workstation with 2 nos. of Nvidia Quadro Fx 5800 Graphics cards and a 3d CAD/CAM software (by Dassault Systems) installed on it. We want to simultaneously feed stereo 3d content to a HMD (that takes dual pipe dvi inputs, 1280x1024 resolution, L & R separate @ 60 Hz each) and F35 AS3d Active Stereo 3d projector by Projection Design (that takes single pipe frame sequential 3d signals @ 120 Hz combined L/R, WUXGA/1080p resolution) from the same machine with 2 nos. of Nvidia Quadro FX 5800 cards. Problem is, Nvidia driver supports either Dual pipe 3d, or single pipe, frame sequential 3D format on both cards, at a time. I want to know if there is a dual input 3D Format converter box, that can convert dual pipe, L/R separate signals @ 60 Hz each into a single, Synchronized, frame sequential 3d format signal of same 1080p resolution @ 120 Hz to be fed to the projector or vice-versa,that is, that can take frame sequential, 1080p 120 Hz signal and split them into 2 separate L&R graphics output @ 60 Hz each for HMD ? |
