| Author | Message | ||
     Steven Rating: N/A |
As it is generally agreed that page flipping has the highest quality resolution for viewing 3d on the PC, is there any hardware or software available that will currently allow this to be done - to play 3d video, left/right eye full vertical resolution, in page flipping? I believe VRStandard is working on it, according to one of their technicians. Is there anything that is already out there? | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
VRStandard is not working on it. Isee3D have stopped the development. Tetratel us my solution based on line- blanking (they will luch an server with XXX based movies in the near future). Iart3D support the sync doubling method based on above/below format. ASUS supports HW page flipping but from analogue source (not for a movie on HD or DVD). The only one person in the world working on it is probably me. It works but the main problem is not enought powerful existing HW. See my WWW for details for movie preparation , playback software and sample movies: http://staff.vscht.cz/~husakm/stereopcvideo.html | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
You also might want to check out www.photoalb.com and look for 3D Combine. It works only with the revelator glasses, but the anims are pageflipped. Right now the anim has to be shown next to the 3D anim (first left/right then 3D) but it will improve once DX8 is out. | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
Yes, it seems possible to build such an adapter. How to make my player compatible with ELSA Relevator (not tested). This is an message witch I have got from Winx3D company. See specification of the VESA-3 mini DIM-3 conector for aditional details. For the 3D-SPEX driver, I raise all data lines on the parallel port high, except for the control line. This is data bit 2, or pin 4 of the parallel port. You could wire this pin 4 to be the eye controller of a VESA connector. I don't think that a single bit on the parallel port could provide enough current to drive the glasses, since each can only provide 3 mA. The remaining 7 pins could give a total of 21 mA, which may be enough. Don't just tie the 7 wires together however, or you may end up shorting something out. My recommendation is to use a power supply, or a wall brick, instead of using the parallel port, for power.. | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
Michal Husak, Could you give me your opinion of the quality of the Asus page flipping for analogue video? Is the quality better than with sync doubling. How large of a window can it appear in? In essence, what do you think is the best way to show 3D video for demonstration purposes? By the way, I downloaded your stereo video player from your website to use with my interlaced video and it works fantastically. I had loaded Winx3d library onto my computer, but I still was not able to put my Nvidia GTS2 card into interlaced mode. Yet, your stereo video player put the graphics card into interlaced format instantly. I truly appreciate the spirit in which you are creating software for everyone to freely use. I am next going to try your plugin for Premiere for the above/below format for sync doubling. You are the only one putting this option out there for free usage, while others are charging a great deal, so, thanks once again. Steven | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
Hi Steven I was not able to test the ASUS video board, I do not have it and I can not say if it is better than my system. The main limit of the ASUS based playback will be the quality of VHS video signal witch is about 4 times worse than quality of a mpeg2 stream in DVD quality. My player does not usualy work in interlaced mode (but it can as well), it works in HW page flipping mode, witch is a bit more better acording brightnes. According best method for stereo-video playback: If you have enought powreful machine (900 MHz) above, you can get good results with my player. You can get good results on standard machines with any player+above+below format + synchronization doubling. You shuld try it yourself For presentation: Use 2 graphic card PC, play a movie in left/right format full screen. Feed two LCD projktors with the signal from both cards. use polarized filter and glasses for viewing ... | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
Hi Michal, Thanks for your response. I am an actor trying to show 3d acting (which is quite different from regular acting) but I am not very accomplished at computers. I hope you would not mind a few questions that might seem very simple or obvious to you: 1) I have an 866 MHz computer. Would it be worth trying the HW page flipping at this level of performance? 2) How do you get a movie in left/right format? 3) I am using your beta 8 stereoplayer. Is this the correct one for the HW page flipping and is the correct configuration using the "relaxed or cross eyed" setting? 4) My graphics card is a 4X AGP Nvidia GeForce GTS2. I only have one AGP slot. I don't know if this card can do page flipping. What second card should I get, not having a second AGP slot, and can it work with the Nvidia card? If not, what two graphics cards (having only one AGP slot) should I get? 5) You said to feed two LCD projectors with the signal from both cards. Does that mean "each" card is connected to "each" projector, or that one card is to one projector and the other card is to the other projector? 6) Can you suggest a source for the projectors (which ones), polarized filters and glasses? 7) Am I correct that I can also view the HW page flipping on the computer monitor with iart3d glasses, and not just feed external projectors? 8) And finally, if Wicked3d comes out with Software page flipping in their wrapper in January, as it is stated in this forum that it might happen, would your stereo player be able to use this method to play left/right video? Sorry if these questions are too basic or too extensive for this forum and thanks for your help. | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
Some answers: 1) Yes. It shuld work on such machine in a bit better quality than from an VHS source ... 2) By an help of an Premiere filter, witch is not available from my www (from interlaced video source) or directly from 3D MAX animation randering by the help of Dept Charge plugin. The transfer to left/right format is not an usual situation and it is connected with several trouble. This format is useful only in special situation as the described situation with 2 graphic card + 2 projectors 3) It is beter to use the above/below setting and prepare teh movies in above/below format. The common form of stereo-video source is the interlaced video witch could be much more easy transformed to above/below than to something else. 4) GeForce shud be O.K. for HW page flipping with the latest Winx3D library. Just try it. The 2 graphic card trick was tested with Matrox dual head system with directly support 2 video oudputs. You can try theoreticaly any PCI graphic card as the second one ... I have never tested this .... 5) one card to first projektor, second card to second projektor. Have a look on the old discusion board. I was describing this setting there (my freinds in germany have tested it for some Jedy con 3D projection party) 6) No. I have only theoretical experiences with this setup. 7) You are right. You can even watch the stereo-video in shifted above/below format (Premiere plugin on my WWW) without any special video player by the help of sync. doubling. Iart glasses support sync. doubling. You can use my plaer and HW page flipping as well with this system I have mentioned the setup for 2 projectors as an BIG PRESENTATION option only .... 8) Wicked3d drivers are wrapers for D3D games only. It is not an API for software development support. I will be not able to use its functions for my software ... My player support playback of Left/Right video on anything compatible with Winx3D library (have a look on www.winx3d.com for supported graphic card, it is almost anything) just now. Colud you, please, let me know a bit more exact: 1) In what form do you get the 3D video signal ? 2) How do you want to present your movies ? Maybe I will be able to sugest you the best soultion ... | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
Thanks for your fast answer Michal. I am getting my 3d video signal from the NuView lens at the moment. I eventually want to create a theatrical type movie and show it in New York in a theatre. I suppose I would use two genlocked Digital cameras then and projectors. I would try to use a Canon XL1 or a Sony VX2000 so that the quality would be good enough to transfer to film at a later time if the option arose. My immediate purpose is to create a demonstration tape so that I can show parties that I wish to interest in supporting this new form of acting. I understand from what you are saying that HW page flipping would be the best image quality but that sync doubling is acceptable. It seems, however, that for a theatrical experience, page flipping would be preferable. Is my understanding correct that there would be much better resolution and brightness from HW page flipping? Also, to do page flipping on my computer monitor, is one graphics card sufficient and then I use the relaxed eye setting of your stereo player (after side by side conversion with Premiere Plug in)? Thanks for your time. Steven | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
You are correct about the HW page flipping. The main trouble with HW page flipping is that it is very hardware dependent (you need the graphic card with works O.K. with Winx3D library). For projection from the HW page fliping you will need an very expensive demultiplexor to feed two projectors. Accrording last question: Do not use side by side! This is only for special situation (as the mentioned projection from 2 projectors and 2 graphic cards). Use shifted above/below . It is much more easy to conver to this format the data from NuView attachment (an mixed genlocked interlaced data from 2 camera as well) + you do not lose resolution in horizontal direction + you can use sync doubling in situation when my player does not work. What video digitalization card do you use ? | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
Hi Michal I use a Sony digital camera and firewire so I do not have to convert from analogue. | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
I have expected that you use an digital camera. I use an Sony TRV 310 E with NuView as well ... The question was - what sort of PC card do you use for transfer into computer ? Even for the IEEE digital signal you must use some digitalization card for storage. Some of them have codec with does not work with Premiere (so coled Type 1 DV, new advanced AVI format, Direct Show based). Some of them use format compatible with Premiere (Type 2 DV AVI, based on Video for Windows standard). Maybe that you use an Macintosh system .... | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
I actually just received Premiere for Windows in the mail today. I have been using MGI Videowave to edit until Premiere arrived. I suspect that the codec of my card is Type 1 DV since the card was sold by Dell to me just two months ago. I'll try to determine this by Wednesday, as I will not have a chance before then. I have read that MGI Videowave can convert Type 1 DV to Type 2 for Premiere, but I'll have to try something else as it seems my audio files have corruption when captured through MGI. I'll try to find some freeware to accomplish the capture into Type 2 DV if in fact my cards codec is Type 1 DV I just bought the Premiere to use your plugin for above/below format. I had Premiere on the Macintosh, but your plugin is for windows only. I look forward to trying it out. | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
My Plugin is not for Windows only !!! If you load the .pff files (source codes of the filters) or write the text from my WWW inside the Macintosch Premiere Filter Factory FIlter (or Filter Fasctory Transition) you can save them as an .prm file and use in the same way as under Windows ! If you have some cheap IEEE card working with Type 1 AVI only, you will get realy trouble with Premiere editing. It is possible to capture Type 2 avi by this card (freware DVIO program), you must instal in adition an Adaptec DVsoft codec for Type 2 DV AVI. It works but it is realy not easy ... | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the info Michal. I obviously should have written to you first, but I guess I needed Premiere for Windows anyway since that PC is where I capture my DV. I'll try creating the filter on the Mac as well. I'll search for the DVIO program and the Adaptec codec to see if I can get them to work. When I get all this working, maybe I can send you on CD an example of what I'm working on in terms of using 3D differently for acting, if you would like to look at it. It will take a while as I have to finish building some hardware for placing the camera on. I'd appreciate having your input as to the quality of the picture and experience (for my purposes of presentation) and the usage of the medium. | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
Another question Michal: Using above/below format, how do I initiate HW page flipping with your player and how will I know if it is in HW page flipping? Or does it use HW page flipping automatically when encountering above/below format? I realize this is not as easy as sync doubling on the hardware, but I just want to give it a try. | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
I would be realy happy to have a look on your movie !!! Using 3D for acting - probably a book needs to be written about this topic. It is so specific ... Only from technical point of view  . I have just yesterday found an stupid effect: light reflected from water or glass is polarized, the NuView attachment filters differently the left and right eye according polarization = you see the reflections only in one eye .... According the last question: You must first load and install Winx3d library from www.win3d.com (or the older version available for download from my WWW). Testing of the HW page flipping modes is an optional part of the instalation. You can select support for several LCD glasses in this step as well. My player use automaticaly the mode with is activated in winx3d lib. It transfers any input to the winx3d selected output. | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
That's interesting about the NuView lens. I've found it tricky to use in terms of reflected light in general. For instance different marks will appear in the video that I didn't notice at the time, because of reflected light on the glass cover of the lens. In general, however, I'm happy its an option. Mr. Starks (sp?) at 3DTV or the people at Neotek (I can't remember which) stated that there might be a better effect from two cameras. That a lens like NuView will lead to a "cardboard cutout" effect - not as much a sense of volume in the picture. That was the reason I was interested in using two cameras and not interlacing them, so as not to lose vertical resolution. | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
With two cameras - you can change the eye ditance and get nice hyper-stereo effects. You will not get the trouble with the polarized light as well ( I was shoting something near a see, the water surface was totaly balck for one eye and reflecting light for the second). You will not get trouble with reduced lighting as well (loos of light in the LCD polarization panels on NuView)... The losing vertical resoultion is not the key probleme - you will probably lose it during future procesing anyway if you want to use standard video froamts for stereo-video storing and manipulation. | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
Hi Michal, I've spent time trying to get an app to allow me to capture Type 2 AVI to work with Premiere. You were right that my board captured only Type 1. I finally found Sonic Foundry "Vegas Video Capture" at sonicfoundry.com and that works very easily. Its also free. I was able to import the clip into Premiere. Now there are several other problems. 1) I have Premiere 5.1. The readme file that comes with your transitions for Premiere states that they were created with 5.1 and may not show up in other editions. However, the only ones that show up are "Create Interlace" and "L/R to A/B" in the transitions palatte. I'm assuming these are your transitions and not ones that come with Premiere. 2) In addition, when I use the Transition Factory to create the "Interlace to A/B" transition, the transition gives an "A/A" filter and "both fields" seem to be in the above and below portion of the screen. This may be part of a larger problem. 3) I can no longer use your stereo player to play interlaced clips. So it seems something I imported has changed something or that I've changed some settings. Do you have any ideas as to what could be happening? I had also downloaded "Mainactor" to try and capture Type2 video, so I uninstalled Mainactor and I uninstalled Sonic Foundry's "Vegas Video Capture" to see if either of these were the problem. I still cannot watch interlaced 3d with your player and the transition in Primiere is still only to A/A with both fields in top and bottom. Could the settings in the DV Soft codec have some bearing on this? What should the setting for Direct Draw be? What should the settings for fields be? Should the output be to both desktop and DV or one or the other? Sorry to throw all of these questions at you, but I sure hope you have some idea as to what might be happening. Thanks! | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
According pooints: 1) Yes the only new transition you see will be the two one you mention. You will see the rest of the staff in Filter menu. 2) You are speaking about the Macintosh conversion ? Did you try to render the movie (preview shows usualy nonsense) ? Did you use the same output and input resolution for the source (for Filters, it dose not play any rule for transition)? 3) For DV format ? What dooes it exactly do (crash, mix left and right eye). If it crashes, send me the win3d_video.log form c: . You have probably overwriten your AVI DV decoding codecs by some deinterlacing variant ... | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
Michal, I found the interlace to a/b in the filters and was able to use it. However, both fields seem to be on the top and bottom. For question 2), I was speaking of using the Transition Factory in windows, because I did not know where to find the interlace to A/B. I think you must be right that I overwrote the AVI DV decoding codecs with a deinterlacing variant. When I view the interlaced video that I had been able to use your player to view, it seems that I see both fields at the same time. The player does not crash. It is just both fields and no 3d. When I go to properties on these clips, I no longer am able to see what codec (DV Soft) they were created with. Properties on the clip created with the Vegas Capture to create Type2 DV shows "dvsd, DV Soft(TM)". I am unfamiliar with the "dvsd" portion and wonder if that is something that was added by either, DVIO, MainActor or Sonic Foundry's "Vegas Video Capture". These are the only things that I believe are new on the computer. I'll try to get DV Soft from my MGI VideoWave Cd or from Adaptac's site to see if reloading it can solve the problem. Thanks | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
Try to reinstal the DV Soft codec. The deault Microsft Type 2 filters unfortunately works as you describe - they deinterlace the movie and my player does not have acces to the raw data. I did not found any solution how to force them to work in the proper mode (but it must exist, if they will be foreced to work in RGB mode insted of YUV + in the same output resolution as the source). According the interlace-a/b fliter. I do not know what is wrong. Colud you, please, aply this filter on some of your data and send me a single frame from the result ? | ||
| Charles Lloyd Rating: N/A |
I am surprised by the dearth of 3D products for the Macintosh. Anyone have any recommendations for cost-effective shutter glasses for the Mac? I am only interested in viewing still images at this point, so I guess I'd need some software to flash the images appropriately as well. Charles. | ||
| lelie Rating: N/A |
In passing on this topic, yes, reflected light IS polarized to a fair degree, and one eye will indeed get a better deal than the other. This is one artifact that you can deal with in Premere (if that's what you are using). You will have to correct the sequence. Putting the reflection in a sequence is not hard BUT, unless someone knows something I don't about Premere (likely...), you have to fix EVERY second frame as it can't split the right and left eye views for correction. If you could split the right/left eye tracks, you could do this in minutes. Larry Elie |
