| Author | Message | ||
     marinus Rating: N/A |
Hi- What's wrong with this picture? Guy takes 2 monitors, faces them, places 2 mirrors between them [at 45 degree angles], slips in between said monitors, enjoys glassless 3D [with use of software that conveniently splits stereo pairs into two streams for the two monitors, and of course laterally reverses them to compensate for mirrors]?! I realize the head positioning would be fussy but the economy [and zero flicker and ghosting!] seems to justify that sacrifice. I'd like to try. Would this work? If so, can anybody recommend software to try for it? Please either put me out of my misery or help me achieve this! Wretch leading tragically flat life, Marinus Skeleton walks into a bar, orders a beer and a mop. PS: if above idea is a dud, can anybody sell me a pair of Elsa Revalators? | ||
| John Billingham Rating: N/A |
Marinus, This idea is so superb that I use it myself ! I use OLD equipment, much found in the trash (or at worst, from e-bay) 2 19" trinitrons, Matrox g450 dual head card Masuji Suto's "StereoPhotoMaker" and Peter Wimmer's "Stereoscopic Player". Best of Luck, John I have shutterglasses, and "i-glasses" but this is better! | ||
| t1 Rating: N/A |
Do you have a link or pictures on what this would look like? | ||
| obe Rating: N/A |
dual monitors http://www.stereoscopic.org/2005/demo.html http://www.crystalcanyons.net/abouts/3dc8_DualMonitor.shtm single monitor http://stereo.jpn.org/eng/stphmkr/mirror/mirrorview.htm http://www.crystalcanyons.net/abouts/3dc7_MirrorL.htm nothing new under the sun ! in (u.s.)photo magazines off the 1950ies you could find stereopairs to be viewed with the help off a mirror. | ||
| marinus Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the links! With the software, they really make the project realistic. I've already ordered twin 21" Hitachi's from eBay. One question tho: the link with the detailed construction tips focusses on 45o positioned monitors, not facing. Now this arrangement is a lot more convenient so i'm not complaining, but i have to ask, is there any image quality sacrifice involved? If anybody has any more suggestions i'm sure we'd all love to hear them! I'm personally hoping to get Blender [the 3D authoring programs] working with such a rig. So if anybody has experience with same [or with 3ds Max], please write! About my last remaining quibble is the design of a flip-up/-away mirror assembly, to make 2D use feasible. Jumping up and down gleefully, your binocular bro... Marinus | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
I use this method also and will continue to until an affordable 1280x1024 HMD appears. As you can see in the links above, you only need one mirror as you can direct-view one of the monitors. Be sure to use a first surface mirror or you'll get some blur. This still means you'll need to reverse the image on the mirrored monitor. Reversing the horizontal deflection circuit in a CRT is dangerous but I did it. Reversing the LCD in an LCD monitor might be possible but I have no clue how to do it. You could also find a monotor that has a OSD setting to reverse the display like the Sharp AQUOS series. Good luck! | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
I took a long time to post so I just saw your previous message. Looks like you're going with 2 CRTs like me. It's best to find the service manual for the monitor before you jump in. Try to never touch any circuit board elements and try to move/remove cables with one hand to prevent a shock going accross your heart. Best to have someone else watching you who knows CPR just in case! No kidding! There are very few elements that can actually kill you in a CRT but they are still in there! The only drawback on only using 1 mirror as opposed to 2 is that you need to very the mirrored monitor through a steeper angle on the mirror. This is why you'll need a first surface mirror. Look at something in a regular mirrror at a steep angle and you'll see what I'm talking about. I got my mirror from stained glass warehouse. | ||
| marinus Rating: N/A |
No way am i cracking open my monitors to get L R back in sync. For one thing, 2D use goes out the window and i haven't the space or the money for separate 2D and 3D systems. So nobody makes a stereo display program that laterally reverses stereo pairs? Neither Masuji Suto's "StereoPhotoMaker" nor Peter Wimmer's "Stereoscopic Player" do this? Any ideas anybody? Oh well, it's still cheap enough to warrant doing. Reversed text is only a moderate loss. | ||
| Graham Toal Rating: N/A |
This is the system I was talking about in 2001: http://www.stereo3d.com/discus/messages/21/643.html?994777197 A couple of the 3D driver writers took me up on my request to add support for it to their software - before that there was none that supported two-screen inverted image stereo. I didn't post the details at the time because I had hoped to patent it, but I was too lazy and the idea has been independently reinvented several times since then. I finally wrote it up a couple of days ago here: http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/3D_20LCD_20display I'll look around my old archives to see if I have any photos of the prototypes (one made from a cardboard box, the other from a TV stand) and if I can find them I'll post them. Graham | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
marinus, that's the other advantage of only flipping the horizontal deflection circuit in ONE of your CRT's. You can just put the mirror away (or just shift your head to one side of it) and use your direct view monitor (the one in which you leave the horizontal deflection circuit alone) for all your 2D stuff. No need for a seperate 2D and 3D rig. I would read carefully through the the site mentioned above: http://www.crystalcanyons.net/abouts/3dc8_DualMonitor.shtm My setup is exactly like his. | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
Graham seems to be talking about exactly what the Planar company is now selling: http://www.planar.com/products/flatpanel_monitors/stereoscopic/stereoscopic.cfm It's also an excellent 3D method. Compared to the approach I'm taking (as described in the last post), the tradeoff is a loss in brightness (due to the polarization) but you gain more freedom of head movement and multi-viewer capability. There also might be just a tiny bit of ghosting in the planar setup if there is any imperfection in the polarization, but FAR better results than shutter-glasses-with-a-CRT or a polarized dual-projection setup. | ||
| obe Rating: N/A |
As i said in the matrox driver postings we tested the planar screen at work for one month. As anyone who has tested this screen will tell , it produces a great loocking image,perfect for games and stereo pictures,movies. Actualy there is very little perceptible loss brightness the 3d image has the same brightness as on a single standard lcd screen. As i use stereo softwares to work the planar screen has a few issues. -linear polarization -the mounting frame of the mirror forces some people to take an uncomfortable working position. -only fullscreen stereo i use software with sometimes 2 stereo viewports and 3 non stereo viewports -problems with the use the mouse for using taskbars,lateral scroolbars,accesing menus etc -the the images are not coplanar (mirror has non zero thickness), this gives a little vertical parrallax . "There also might be just a tiny bit of ghosting in the planar setup if there is any imperfection in the polarization, but FAR better results than shutter-glasses-with-a-CRT or a polarized dual-projection setup." Well actualy ghosthing is not the problem,the real problem is crosstalk due to the linear polarization ,if you tilt your head sideway the two images are not separated correctly and believe the brain does not really like that(headhache!) The crt monitor plus glasses or polarizing screen is still one most flexible solution althought not a perfect one for stereo work. | ||
| marinus Rating: N/A |
Uh GianCarlo... Your Jan 13 post, proposing a modification of the 45o toed-in dual monitors doesn't seem like much of a solution. I'll admit that i don't understand how ONE laterally reversed monitor's image could superimpose over anothers reversed image, but let that slide... The result is still one monitor laterally reversed, pretty lame for normal 2D use, like reading ones program menus with! I'm still amazed that NOBODY makes a 3D display/ viewer program that laterally renormalizes. I mean, it's all digital right? So after video decompression the series of bitmap coordinates are simply reverse read/displayed!? | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
Marinus, Read this page and stare at the pictres in it until you understand. http://www.crystalcanyons.net/abouts/3dc8_DualMonitor.shtm It's not a new idea at all. You place two monitors side-by-side facing you. You tilt the left one 45 degrees in. You then bisect the 135 degree angle between the monitors with a first surface mirror that faces towards the left. You then reverse the horizontal deflection circuit of the left monitor. To view 3D, start up a 3D application in the Dual-Monitor mode. You then place your eyes on either side of the mirror and look towards the unmodified right monitor. Your right eye will simply see the right image in the right monitor, your left eye will see the left monitor in the mirror. This left image will be reversed once by the horizontal deflection circuit modification and then corrected back to normal in the mirror. Each eye then has it's own image and you see the 3D effect with no ghosting, flicker, or significant loss of brightness. For 2D desktop applications, you can continue to place each eye on either side of the mirror and run in nVidia "clone" mode (so each eye gets the same image) or you can just shut off your modified monitor and shift both eyes to the normal one, folding up your mirror to get it out of the way entirely if you want to. Additionally, if you really want to have a dual-monitor expanded desktop when you're not gaming, you can switch out of clone mode to dual-monitor mode and then use nvkeystone to reverse the modified monitor back to normal. However, I've noticed nvkeystone creates a slight fuzzing of the image so I don't like to use it. Nvidia could very easily create a simple "flip image only" setting in nvkeystone without doing a complex recalculation of the image, but they don't. Oh well. However, if you're very ambitious, you could add wire to the horizontal deflection circuit and install a switch to reverse or normalize the image. I would insulate this cable and switch well to guard against electric shock and turn off the monitor before throwing the switch each time. Or you could go find a monitor that has a menu option to reverse the image like the Sharp Aquos series does. | ||
| marinus Rating: N/A |
GianCaro- No need to insult my intelligence. The basic concept is quite simple [i started this thread, remember?] Getting conventional dual monitor use AND unreversed text in 3D mode, short of physical modifications, ain't. Sigh. And i don't have the budget to buy 2 Sharp monitors. By the way, not everybody is a gamer. | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
Well, I know no one like to open one other their monitors and rewire things. There is hope that nVidia will continue to improve their driver support for the StereoMirror 3D mode used for the Planar monitors. It will reverse one monitor for you while running a 3D application. It was still a little buggy when I last tried it, but perhaps it's better now or will be soon. You should give it a shot with lots of apps and different nVidia drivers and see if it works for you. | ||
| RANK Rating: N/A |
Hi guys, Don't know if you know but Nvidia 78.01 drivers have an option for planar mirror left/right. under stereo type in stereo properties in nvidia control panel. |
