| Author | Message | ||
     Rob Rating: N/A |
they even made mention of a NEW headset in development for pc and x-box.now if they would only release Win ME drivers for the VFX3D..... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Ya too funny! IIS is really trying to stay alive! It shows they are hurting by their consistent lack of site updates. | ||
| VRone Rating: N/A |
Hey, prev anon chill...it can be argued that IIS has created the ONLY HMD available to consumers. I mean the high tech minds at the biggest co.s. are trying to recreate the success of the walkman by creating personal display viewers. IIS is devoted to VR. It's uncertain that the larger co.s even know/remember what an HMD is...so don't make fun of IIS. They're the biggest fish in a small pond. Vrone | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
That is too funny! Sony is the biggest fish buddy and they are getting out of it for now. IIS VR doesn't even come close to comparing to sony's top end line. Not even close! IISVR is a hole in the wall to who the real players will be... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Who will the real players be? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Sony is the best!!! I have seen the VFX3D and was not impressed in the least! The image was fuzzy and just cheap looking! Sony Rocks! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
SONY DOES NOT MAKE A CONSUMER LEVEL IMMERSIVE HMD!!!!! A high end HMD? That's not what we're talking about. Anybody can make a great display with unlimited budget. However, I agree that without antitrust regulation in Japan-- Sony is one hell of a co. to compete with. There is a sort of join them or be destroyed by them effect that is happening. Here's a rare argument for IIS-- Buy AMERICAN! BUY IISVR! If the past is to be used as a guide Microsoft, Disney or Sony itself will nab IIS. VRONE | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Give us a break! We all know you work for IIS! If IIS made a good unit I'd buy it - but they don't! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Most people on here probably aren't american. And if they make HMD anything like they make cars ...well you decide? hahaha | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Are you for real? You have never tried on a HMD have you? Try them on then reply -LOL | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hey - anybody here ever really bought one of those vfx3ds? Is it worth the money? | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
Anonymous: I have the VFX3D device and I like it very much. It is the best device in its price category. VFX3D Plus: 1) Excelent 3DOF headtracking 2) Stereoscopic support for both HW page flipping and interlaced (it can do interlnal line-blanking) output (works with VRCaddy, Winx3D, Generic Relevator drivers ...). Manual activation of stereo mode. 3) SDK for headtracking implementation VFX3D minus: 1) Low resolution 2) Headtracking compatible with DX 7.1 maximaly. With DX 8 The headtracking works only as joystic emulation (Quake based games will work O.K.) . If you are a gamer, the main problem is that existing games are not optimized for 3DOF headtracking navigation. A standard of such interface similar to Joystic one shuld be established - the games will be able to take the most from 3DOF in this case. I am a software developer - I write my oven codes based on VFX3D SDK and Open GL HW acceleration (supporting stereo via interlaced pattern creation on any graphic card). The scene navigation is optimized for 3DOF headtracking and the result looks realy interesting in VFX3D enviromant ... I hope I will find time to make a WWW with some examples soon ... I will try to add full 3DOF optimized support + stereoscopy to some open source games/VR engines as well ... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
What is the resolution? What about Win ME Drivers? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
What are "oven codes"? | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
Input resolution could be any (including stereo modes, the Chistoph informatio that it supports stereo only in 640x480 input mode is not correct for the model witch I have). Output resolution: In mono 263x480 on each eye .... In stereo 263x240 on each eye ... I have tested the drivers on Win 98 SE and NT 4.0 SP 6. I do not have any information that the drivers do not work under ME in the same way as under Win 98. There are some troubles with stero modes - I am just evaluating the possiblity to use third party stereoscopic drivers (VrCaddy, Relevato Generic,Winx3D ) instead of the VFX3D one . VFX3D could accept both interlaced and HW page flipped input produced by this drivers ... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Man, the resolution is low! Damn near $2000.00 for a 263x240 headset....I don't think so  | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
Anonymous: If you find any other product for this price with better parameter on the market, let me know, please. | ||
| Vrone Rating: N/A |
I don't work for IIS, in fact, I have requested on another topic a more affordable consumer level HMD from IIS-- or at least various quality levels available at range of prices. It appears they are working on a new one. In fact they had been for some time. (Besides in reality it would be politically incorrect for any company that sources foreign elements to say "Buy American." But all things considered the VFX3D is an American product.) I am an American, and I must confess that I suppose I'm a bit upset about big business stomping on innovation. Invariably what happens is that small companies develop something cool and larger companies step in, purchase the company and the business and its technology gets absorbed and is either watered down to the point of non existence, put on the shelf until the "industry matures", or acquired in the first place with the soul purpose being the destruction of the new technology/product as to prevent competition with the large company's own inferior technology/product. This is a problem world-wide not just in America. In many other countries antitrust regulation is nonexistent worsening the problem. I post my "Buy America!" because we Americans have stopped making things. We should be proud of what we do make. Okay so our cars haven't been up to par for foreign consumption-- at least we fit in them. ;) Also as far as Americans go....say what you will about enabling technologies being developed here and there but an American Dr. Sutherland invented immmersive displays in the 60s...the HMD thing-- Sutherland. So whatever Sony or anyone else does, they will have to pay small tribute to that fact. Enough Nationalism eh? Who cares in a world market? (I'm sure all American HMDs will have parts sourced and manufactured elsewhere.) Don't change the subject with accusations. Fill in the blank. ________ company makes a consumer level HMD. Correct IIS is the one and only. Do YOU work for Sony? VRONE >Give us a break! We all know you work for IIS! >If IIS made a good unit I'd buy it - but they >don't! By Anonymous on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 10:53 am: | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
IISVR the only company making a consumer level HMD? Maybe you should do some homework?? Everything you complained about regarding small companies getting bought up and watered down is the typical american way. I think the VFX3D is a great product (if it was 1995-97) but in 2001 that technology is old and tired especially at that price. | ||
| Steve@IIS Rating: N/A |
Well, some feisty commentary. VROne does not in fact work for IIS, I think I have been pretty honest posting on this board and using my own name. The reason we have not updated the website in a while is that I inherited a horrible site, that was beyond repair. It needed an entire re-write and that took some time. If you look in the news section you will see that we have recently completed a round of financing, which puts us in a good position for the future, we are committed to VR and future consumer level HMD's. I do not see any large companies that are working to that end. As for buying American, we do source parts all over the world, but everything we do is built here in the US. As for cars, I drive German. IIS has had some growing pains over the last year, but I guarantee you we are in good shape for the future. As for your drivers, they are on the way, Win 2000 are done and ME are coming soon. Sorry for the delay. Steve | ||
| Eric Lindstrom Rating: N/A |
A couple of comments of my own in regards to this thread... First off, Sony does NOT make a stereo HMD. Since this is a STEREO webboard, it would stand to reason that VROne and the others are right when they say that IIS makes the ONLY true stereo HMD. Sony may make nice, high resolution displays, but that's all they are. If you want head tracking and stereo from a SONY unit, as well as a wide FOV, it would cost you WAY more than a grand. Sony makes nice monitors, but their hardware cannot do anything else but show flat-screen images without another knowledgable VR company getting involved (After all, every true SONY HMD has been a modified unit sold by a Third party. Hell, they can't even make a good robot dog for under $2000!) Secondly, I take great offense at the users on this board that think American manufacturers are crap. Consider that the PC you use has an american processor in it (that is, if it's an INTEL, AMD, Cyrix, Motorola or Alpha. anything else is junk) Your average american car has a longevity of at least 15-20 years if maintained properly, and I don't know a single person that can say the same for the jap-crap on the roads these days. Consider that most Japanese consumers have to junk their cars after 50,000 miles by law, while US cars are all certified to 100,000 miles. it says alot about the auto industry over there. The USA is responsible for 95% of all the innovation in the world, everything else is just a copy of the original. So, to all who object to this opinion, go screw yourselves. I'm sick of everybody ribbing my country; and to think we bail other nations out of THEIR problems on a daily basis, but once they get what they want, they thumb their noses at us and call us shit. So to people like those who think that way about my great nation, don't ever, EVER come here, because people like YOU aren't going to be welcomed with open arms, you will most probably get the shit beat out of you if you share your "opinions" with anyone I know. Sorry to be a jerk, but if you didn't want to hear my goddamned opinion, you shouldn't have brought my homeland into it. Third, IIS has been in the biz as long as I can remember. They are an underdog, but their product gets better and better with each revision. it's products are well designed, durable, and nowadays support stereo for more software than ANY other HMD on the market. Resolution doesn't mean a goddam thing if it doesn't have the software support (just ask the Macintosh users out there) Lay off IIS, and stop talking shit. If you think you can build a more competent, higher-resolution HMD, then just shut your yap and build the goddamn thing yourself. Otherwise, shut the hell up, and let the pros do the job right. fucking anarchy!!! ^_^ -Eric L. | ||
| Rob Rating: N/A |
PREACH ON BROTHER!!!.......and when was the last time you ever heard about a clasic HONDA,or TOYOTA car show?......lol | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Damn near $2000.00 for a 263x240 headset....I don't think so ! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I have to agree...I was shocked to see that the VFX3D is such a piece of crap! 263x240 -WOW- I would have to be out-of-my-mind or have good money to burn to buy such a DINOSAUR.... I guess I could look through the bottom of two coke bottles to get the same effect,,,,,,for alot less money.... SHOCKED | ||
| Eric M. Lindstrom Rating: N/A |
Okay. So I think I have a solution. This message is primarily for Steve over at IIS, but everyone else should read too. I want comments on this post... Okay, the main issue here is the price/quality ratio. People around here are of the opinion that $2000 is too much money to pay for a HMD with a 263x240 resolution. I would think that for an HMD to be viable in the marketplace these days, the resolution should at LEAST be 640x480, since this is the lowest resolution most current display cards can run in hi-color mode. If I recall properly, the resolution of the VFX1 was 263x240. The VFX3D has a higher resolution. Still, it's pretty low-res for the money a person is shelling out for it. What would you say the most expensive component in the HMD is? I would suspect it is the tracking hardware. Now, if Steve would be so kind as to post the true specs of the hardware, and the cost of each component (roughly), we may be able to help IIS figure out a way to reduce construction costs enough to raise the resolution a bit. perhaps a different tracking solution, or alternate sources for audio components. there has to be a way to come up with a lower priced, entry-level HMD. What do you think? this board is for constructive purposes, so since we have all gotten the anger out of our collective systems, we should focus the effort we have been wasting on helping IIS find some solutions to their dillemma. Frankly, it's 2001. If IIS wants to stay in the game, they have to start innovating a bit. Maybe some fresh ideas from the users of this forum can help you do just that. -Eric L. | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
The mono resolution is not 263x240 but 263x480. For stereo the resolution is unfortunately realy going down making especilay trouble with text reading ... I was forced to solve this problem by using different font size for both modes in my code ... According the price analysis - Eric is probably righ. The chepest independent tracking system on the market is the InterSense InterTrack2 It is sold for 1000$. For Steve: Colud you, please, make the manual stereoscopic mode setting active as default or adjustable in the new drivers (not sending VFXSetVideoMode(FALSE)to the headset) ? It will be possible to use third-party stereoscopic drivers as VrCaddy, Relevatro Generic and the default stereoscopic support in the new Nvidia drivers in this case in combination with VFX3D headtracking . I cand send a detailed description to your driver developers what I mean if you want ... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Well...where are the true specs of the VFX3D and the cost of each component? Steve, we are waiting | ||
| Steve@IIS Rating: N/A |
Hey Guys, Sorry for the delay, we are out in sunny CA setting up our booth for the Game Developers Conference. I am willing to share some numbers in general terms with you guys, as I don't think it is anything I have not shared before. You guessed wrong on the tracking numbers, the optics and display package accounts for 70% of the cost in each HMD. Add to that plasics, boards, tracking, speakers, cables, and misc electronics. Add a standard retail margin and voila! It is true that some of the new small format micro-displays have the potential to change that ratio, but to date no one has been able to build an optic package to take advantage of these displays. If you will be happy with a 18-20 degree FOV on your new 800x600,that could be doable. As for the innovating comment, we are innovating, it may come as a surprise to you all but we actually work in other areas besides VR (re:Wireless). We are focused on delivering a next generation solution to the consumer market, we talk in general about it in our news section at our site (BTW, No comments on our new site). We are at GDC this year specifically to sign up developers for the next HMD. So, we are on the right track. Eric if you have an application that will need a low cost HMD, call me and we can discuss in more detail, like I said we are signing up developers as we speak. Steve | ||
| Steve@IIS Rating: N/A |
BTW what is with all of the anon posters? Steve | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I think we all need a low cost HMD and not just Eric, let us all talk about it here and not behind the telephone line..... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I think what they might find useful is a breakdown of what everyone would like to see in a new HMD...that is assuming the thing isn't already finished. Shell I like the VFX1/3D shell over the type that strap on your head like a bandana or rest on your nose like glasses. Audio Ear buds and small earphones-- no good. VFX1 audio was good. I saw it mentioned somewhere that users of the VFX3D miss the optics and mic of the VFX1. How about a VFX1 with better resolution/tracking for $500-$800. Don't fix it if ain't broked. How about Steve? | ||
| Eric Lindstrom Rating: N/A |
All the software I am currently working on should be compatible with the existing IIS HMD's (using VRCaddy as a driver, of course) I am only working on a couple demos at the moment, nothing yet worthy of production. I ahve been coding the demos in DarkBasic, which should also support the IIS stereo drivers for the VFX3D (DarkBasic uses Direct3D controls for rendering) I am mostly focused on development of the hardware; I am currently building an immersive solution at home, using commmon hardware (CRT monitor, Shutterglasses, commercial force-feedback controllers, etc.) The main reason for this is because HMD's are so darn expensive. The last time I considered actually purchasing a HMD was when the Virtual I/O headseats were commercially available in the stores. This was a long time ago. My system is being built around the goal of making it expandable, so adding a true HMD with head tracking would be possible. Perhaps when I am more clear about what I want out of my current system, I'll talk. The biggest issue, as always, is price. It may sound a bit cliché, but I make my carreer primarily as a starving artist, since I studied design through the duration of my college carreer. Aside from my VR experiments, I also write (I am currently working on a novel), am an experienced illustrator, have worked in Radio, the comic book industry as an independant publisher, and also dabble in hardware/software development for the Gameboy and Gameboy COLOR. One could say that I am a "Jack of all Trades", but at the core, I am merely an out of work designer trying to scrape out a meager wage with his talents. The only thing different about each of my projects that I undertake is the media in which I work. Put simply, I'm attempting to come up with an idea which will be marketable, and have come very close on a few occasions. The only thing I am trying to do right now is just that. Durring the day, I maintain and program Server hardware and databases to pay my rent, along with a couple website design and maintanance chores that occasionally come my way. about 80% of my income goes towards my living expenses, which doesn't leave much for my pet projects. I try to focus on one thing at a time, and since My current writing project is a cyberpunk novel, it was only natural for me to delve deeoper into the technology, which led me to begin experimenting with VR and similar technologies. It seems to me to be a near-perfect medium for conceptualization and design, not to mention entertainment and communications. Still, I can't get the money together for a nice HMD right now if my life depended on it, which is why I am researching low-cost VR solutions, and my home experiments have been focused around the Homebrew approach rather than "Off-the -shelf" components. Who knows, If my book turns out to be pretty good, and I find a publisher for it, I may have some more money to play around with, but until then, I'm on a shoestring budget. It seems many VR companies are in the same boat these days. We can thank Uncle Walt for that sad truth! Considering that most "experimental" VR setups at universities run in the six-figure pricetag category, I am proud of the fact that my current Homebrew setup has cost me just a little over $150 in parts and some elbow grease! It definitely gets the job done, even though there's no way I can do head tracking with my current rig, since the display is fixed in it's position. But, you can't make an ommlette without breaking a few eggs! I am confident that, one day, an affordable, entry-level HMD will be attainable by simple folk like myself, but for now, the expense isn't warrented, and I don't think it would be worth the loss of revenue for Steve, since, as I have stated, my software is currently in an early stage of development. Thanks for the offer, Steve. If I have any ideas for practical applications for my code, I will be sure to contact you. Keep fighting the good fight! -Eric L. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
The guy who says he likes the VFX1/VFX3D "shell" design must be smoking something. I thought it was cool back in '95 when I bought one, but to the guy who likes it: have you actually used the thing? It's NO GOOD for any kind of extended use. It doesn't fit my head well, and I know two other people who have said the same. The VFX1 was hot, gets your hair sweaty, and eventually gives you a headache from the pressure it exerts above your forehead. Plus it has so much mass that you can't turn your head quickly. Besides those aspects, I think a person looks like an idiot using it, unless they're a teenager. I.e., a professional user would be laughed at. And speaking of laughs, at the IEEE VR conference a couple of years ago, Linda Jacobsen (look her up if you don't know) did her keynote and showed slides. When a picture of the VFX1 came up, she asked, "Remember this?" And everyone laughed. IIS needs to seriously reconsider their form factor (the sunglasses style is really the thing to shoot for, and please, you must keep the fixed-focus optics!)... Oh yeah, and that poster REALLY must not have used the VFX1, because its optics were poor too. (Get a clue, dude) . . . But okay, all that said... we really should be more supportive of IIS, since they're one of the ONLY companies still doing low-end HMDs. They've made good strides, like improving their hardware interface, and including the head tracker -- all of which must be considered (besides the simple-mindedness of only considering resolution or field-of-view). Sony dropped their stereoscopic SVGA HMD a while back (yes, they did have stereo models, but word is the SVGA polysilicon LCD panels were so expensive by themselves, that the price of the whole HMD couldn't even pay for the LCDs!)... so IIS is one of the only ones still hanging in there. Sony shouldn't even be considered a player. For the sake of consumer VR, I really hope IIS make it... and that they don't give up. Please keep that in mind, Steve. Bravo to Eric (and others) on their enthusiasm. It's just what "VR for the people" needs to keep it alive. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
This Steve guy is not the ONLY ONE! Try I-O Display Systems: http://www.i-glasses.com From what I understand they have quite a few different headsets to offer at much better prices than IIS and of much better quality! | ||
| Eric Lindstrom Rating: N/A |
I personaly like the HMD design in the Masamune Shirow animated film, "Ghost in the Shell". The charachter, Kusanagi, wears it in several scenes (it's associated with her "Thermoptic Camoflauge", It's light, can be worn resting on the forehead when not in use. It also seems large enough to give a wide FOV, not to mention the fact that it makes her invisible. Wow! Hook me up! Well, not really, since it's a cartoon, and nobody actually makes the thing, Where are you going to get it, the Stereo Mirrorshades are vaporware, works of fiction. When it comes to applied technology, talk is cheap! The question still stands: where will you find a HMD that supports stereo, headtracking, immersive audio, a wide FOV and software support to boot for the price of a VFX3D? ...That's the point, you CAN'T find one! ANYWHERE!!! Your example from IEEE VR doesn't mean a thing, especially if one of those people had to return to their workstation the next week and use a VFX3D, especially if that was all the company could afford. Sure, they could use other, high-res, lighter weight hardware, If they had a nice, fat bankroll to cough up the $10,000 or so to Kaiser but the sad truth about TRUE HMD's is that they are all: a: just as bulky and b: at least twice as costly Form follows Function. There is not even Function in the current equation, because all the HMD's on the market that stereo and have tracking are Heavy, expensive, and generally a pain in the butt. Once HMD's can do their jobs effectively, we can send them to the japanese, and they'll build them smaller. This is the Zen of technology, and is beyond our control. I still want the HMD from the Anime, but it's not gonna happen. Not for a while, at least! -Eric L. | ||
| Eric Lindstrom Rating: N/A |
Virtual I/O, forgot to mention. I tried these things years ago. I liked the fact they were light, and could do stereo with native code, but the resolution is'nt much higher than the VFX3D, and has a narrow FOV. I also had problems withthe tracking system (was kind of inaccurate, and "jumped" from time to time) Also, the stereo support just isn't there, unless you use 3rd pary softwares to add it. The design was nice, a lot of nice things about it, but it just doesn't do the job all that well in my opinion. At least the resolution is better on the new models. -Eric L. BTW, it seemed a little front-heavy to me, VFX had it's weight distributed evenly. Maybe a counter-weight in the back of an I/O would fix that. | ||
| Rob Rating: N/A |
Actually,i like the design of the VFX3D headset.i dont understand how anyone can say its too tight.I'm 6'5" and have a big head.i cant even find baseball caps that fit,but the VFX3D is very comfortable. | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
Some points: 1) I was not smoking enything when I write that I like VFX3D 2) The question is whatever the weight of the VFX3D is an disadvantage or advantage. The biger inertial motion of the helmet helps a bit to make precise postioning in the space. You feel that you move your head ... Light weighted HMD could have trouble with headtracking jittering ... 3) I am e.g. devlopeing software for the CAVE device ... But coud you take the $1000 000 CAVE or the $10 000 HMD's home when you need to work on the code at home not to be forced to go into work ? I personaly use VFX3D for the software-concept testing before I switch to more sophisticated devices ... | ||
| Eric Lindstrom Rating: N/A |
AMEN!!! Michal is dead on! Most dev'ers don't have the money for expensive rigs. If you think there are many alternatives, just search Yahoo for HMD, and you'll see the current state of the industry offers slim pickings at best, most offerings are way too pricey. IIS even offers hardware for free to developers if they qualify, they support the developmant community; Let's see the folks at KEO do that! Times are changing, however, and Stereo displays are slowly becoming the big thing again. It's only a matter of time before there's some more "healthy" competition between VR manufacurers, along with lower-cost hardware solutions. -Eric L. BTW:, Michal, which CAVE do you work with? where is it located? Are you working at a university, or a privately owned CAVE? Just curious... | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
Eric L: I have free acces to the CAVE at Johanes Kepler University in Linz, Austria. I do most of the development at home in Czech Republic using VFX3D as the "pure man" CAVE emulator befor I test the results in Linz ... | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
Eric L: I have free acces to the CAVE at Johanes Kepler University in Linz, Austria. I do most of the development at home in Czech Republic using VFX3D as the "pure man" CAVE emulator befor I test the results in Linz ... | ||
| Akiva Atwood Rating: N/A |
Steve: I read your post on the Stereoscopic 3D VR board about being at GDC. I am a developer working on a series of educational VR projects (walkthroughs of historic sights) and would be interested in receiving information about your new headset. TIA Akiva Atwood Bereshit Software atwood@netvision.net.il | ||
| Eric Lindstrom Rating: N/A |
Michal, Wow, it must be nice to have access to a CAVE. The nearest CAVE system to my location is at University of Illinois, which is about a 2 hour drive away. Still, the developers there are extremely nice, and offer demos of the hardware to locals if they call in advance to request it. I still haven't had the opportunity to go there and check it out, but it's definitely on my list of things to do. Thanks for the feedback, and keep fighting the good fight. -Eric L. | ||
| vrone Rating: N/A |
About the shell, --the sunglass idea: they either rest on the nose and they're too heavy or have to be strapped on-- like the i-glasses-- which is painful. The VFX1 is a good design because even though it may look strange, it provides a more immersive feeling, and distributes the weight on top of the head-- i-glasses and the like don't do that. It's all about immersiveness. I noticed that wearing an HMD, even if you turn out all the lights, and there is some small real world reference-- i.e. the green diode on the keyboard-- you lose the immersive feeling of being somewhere else. A large shell has the potential to hold an immersive visor, good audio, a mic, good tracking elements, and good optics/display. Perhaps all this can't be rested on the nose or wrapped around the head like a tourniquet? I don't know. At any rate, regardless of the shell design having used a good HMD/vr visual system (experiencing a good sim/game), you should feel like you've been somewhere else...perhaps that should be the goal of the overall hardware design for a new HMD...enable that feeling; otherwise, you can join the ranks of "private tv viewers" which is a niche that is already maturing quickly. One poster said a professional wouldn't want to be seen in a vr helmut shell. (Perhaps the horseless carriage looked strange and forbidding-- eh?);) To be fair, I suppose we would all prefer an immersive visual system that wasn't "attached" to our bodies. VRone | ||
| Michal Husak Rating: N/A |
Eric L: I am in the same situation as you according acces to Cave. The Linz is 150 km far away from the town where I live and it take me 2 hours to go there ... I am a bit thinking about writing a PC CAVE emulator ... It will be not so horrible, just only proces the rendering routine 8 times (4 screens, 2 eyes) with different Viewport/Perspective matrix and render to 4 diferent windows. My oven opinion is that it will be posible to constuct much more cheap CAVE from 4 standard PC with Oxygen GVX1 Pro graphic cards than from the 2 Onyx SGI normaly used for CAVE driving.The new VREX stereoscopic projectors could replace the much more expensive CRT one used in existing CAVES ... | ||
| Cyber-Guru Rating: N/A |
VRONE: The i-glasses are an excellent headset and are not painful,,,can 8oz. really be that painful?  The vfx1 shell is a heavy monster more like 1 or 2 pounds!I can wear my i-glasses for hours.....and the screen size is the same as the vfx1. I can see that you really do not have any experience with either unit....if you don't know,,then don't post......The guru has spoken... Cyber-Guru | ||
| VRJUNKIE Rating: N/A |
Let's get "real". The sunglasses style is never going to cut it! The "shell" is going to continue to be the "real" VR unit! If all you want is stereo, yeah shutterglasses are great. If all you want to do is watch movies privately then something like i-glasses are great. But if you want a good true VR experience with immersive display and integrated head tracking, the shell is it! If anyone played just Quake for example in my modified VFX1 vs something like i-glasses, the old VFX1 would win hands down. The stereo in there with totally smooth yaw, pitch, and roll support would blow them away. Bring this technology up a bit (better res, wider FOV) and it would beat anything. Think about it logically - do you want all the weight slung off the front of your head... or evenly distributed over the your whole head? And there will always be cords (for the foreseeable future anyway). The weight of the unit coupled with the cords requires straps to keep the sunglasses style on your head - and that is uncomfortable. Any do you want sound blocking real headphones or cheap ear buds? What do audiophiles use??? And Cyber-Guru??? Yes I've used both! If anyone doubts me... Look at the biggest customer of VR. Who are they? - The military. What style do they use? - The shell. I rest my case! -VRJUNKIE | ||
| Cyber-Guru Rating: N/A |
VRJUNKIE: You hot-headed little monkey you....I too have them both and the vfx1 shell is a hot, joke of a headset! You either have one hell of a big head (we all know this)or a neck the thickness of an elephant leg to support such a monstrosity! I also see you have rested your case, that sounds like a personal problem to me.... He who lays girl on ground has true piece on earth The guru has spoken..... | ||
| Eric Lindstrom Rating: N/A |
i-glasses suck. the field of view is two narrow. Light leaks in from the outside even with the visor attached. while the resolution isn't all that bad, it's front-heavy, ill balanced and the headtracking sucks. let's not forget the (non-existent) software/display adapter support for stereo viewing. if you call that a HMD, hey, whatever floats your boat. maybe you could fix the light-leaks by throwing a blanket over your head, or by locking yourself in a dark closet. the narrow FOV make one feel like he's wearing blinders, which is hardly immersive. I've had the opportunity to work with both the VFX3D and the I/O hardware. VFX3D wins hands-down for immersive qualities. BTW: maybe you have it backwards, perhaps you have a pencil-neck that can't support an additional 2 pounds of weight (keep in mind, the average human head weighs as much as a bowling ball). the I-glasses give me more neck strain, due to the fact that they're unbalanced, with most of the weight on the face, making gravity pull the head forward and down. this also helps screw up the headtracking even more. -Eric L. | ||
| Cyber-Guru Rating: N/A |
Eric (L) (for Looser): I see you have as much intelligence as the hairy, ass-smelling gorillas we have here in Bangalore...I am sure you play with your feces too....I see you can throw it quite well... The field of view with the i-glasses is as wide as the vfx1/vfx3d....you speak with a little head and a big mouth! It is not front heavy and is one of the lightest headsets made....ignorance Eric (L) is your strong suit! My i-glasses came with a clip on cover that does a good job of blocking outside light... My i-glasses also works with 3d in any game I play with win me, can your vfx1/vfx3d do that? If you would like to wear a bowling ball on you head that is your choice...sounds strange to me, but whatever gets you off.. The guru has spoken.... | ||
| VRone Rating: N/A |
Okay, "sima' down now". Let's stay focused on something constructive. Remember/learn: the VFX3D uses modified i-glasses, so now we can all hold hands and stop the i-glasses vs VFX wars. ;) (I have worn both VFX and Iglasses.) My question is what does everybody expect from a consumer level HMD? The Design of the shell is one part--- what about price? I say $300 U.S. is going to be the price point for mass acceptance? Thoughts? Also, what about compatibility? Should it work with PCs and dedicated game systems? Both? How should a new HMD be marketed. My opionion: I think the fellows who originally sold the i-glasses made a big mistake when they marketed it so heavily as a personal viewer with copy something to the effect of "it's like looking at a 50' tv from 3 feet away"...what? Stick to the "VR" marketing...enough movies have educated the public about what VR is to not be afraid of using it in a marketing campaign. What different levels of quality and their price points....how many levels? On a lighter note, IIS should invest in VR porno-- that'd be the quickest way to ride the product life cycle up that golden hill to riches in the up-to-now-you'll-go-broke-if-your-in-it business. (That's what financed demand that resulted in the economies of scale that led to cheaper VCRs.) (I'm sure everyone will endure a bit of HMD discomfort for that.) Steve, we would like an official IIS comment on what exactly the company is doing in this area. Smut will save VR! I'm just joking...or am I? Something to think about. And you thought cloning was a big ethical issue, wait till this stuff comes out. VRone | ||
| Steve@IIS Rating: N/A |
Hi Guys, Calm down is right. This kind of bickering is exactly what the VR industry needs, everyone arguing about which is better only makes us all look like idiots. All the companies involved in the HMD market have a long way to go to meet the expectations of the mass market. I think your $300 number is probably close to the mark, but I think an integrated HMD at $500 would sell pretty well. I will not comment officially about what we are doing, but I can say we are as excited as you guys are for the future. I will look into the porn thing, LOL. Steve | ||
| Cyber-Guru Rating: N/A |
STEVE: Make a good headset and I will calm down, right now your headset is as good a dung stuck to the sandle of my mother in law. You look into porn and let us know how good it feels to jerk off with your head weighted down with a mack truck.. The guru has spoken.... | ||
| Steve@IIS Rating: N/A |
This will be my last post on this forum. You're too cool Guru Steve | ||
| Sheng LoNG Rating: N/A |
LOL! the wanna-be guru is so funny! :P When he can't back up his arguments with technical data or design facts, he resorts to personal slander. haha! Wow! what a cut-up! I should talk to Bert (the owner of the local comedy club) to see if he wants to book a barking chimp for next weekend? You'll be free, Right? look pal, This is a discussion forum. Opinions only go so far here without facts to back them up, and this thread has become a dead horse from the over-abundance of whipping. grow up, and return to this forum when you grow pubic hair. BTW: Remember this comment? >I see you have as much intelligence as the hairy, >ass-smelling gorillas we have here in Bangalore Thanks for the info, Guru! there aren't that many ISP's out in that direction. It's only a matter of time before I punch your ticket! ;P Hope you have a firewall, you're going to need it! Sheng LoNG has spoken! | ||
| Eric Lindstrom Rating: N/A |
Hehe, Moi? ignorant? ...if that's not the kettle calling the pot black, I don't know what is! ^_^ Whatever you feel is your favorite piece of hardware is your buisness. Just because the majority of the users here disagree with your opinion is by no reason to get all uppity about it. Don't get your panties all in a bunch guru, I think sheng long was right about this thread being dead, I'm inclined to believe him after the recent barrage of shit-talking. what the hell is "Cyber-Guru" all about, anyways? and all the pr0n refrences, why don't you post something in news:alt.cyberpunk.tech with that user name and see how long they put up with your crap? I doubt you'd get all that far, considering the fact that anyone with the words "Cyber" or "Guru" in their handles are nothing but posers, and don't get any respect in the field. At least I have the balls to use my real name around here. Later! >Plonk!< -Eric L. L is for Lindstrom, that's good enough for me. Even a blue-shag puppet w/googly-eyes can understand that concept. Have fun with your pet monkeys, and don't do anything I wouldn't do! ^_^ | ||
| We wonder? Rating: N/A |
Sounds like Cyber-Guru is a disgruntle who has had a personal problem with VFX1 and VFX3D...IISVR. Taking out is frustrations on IISVR being rude etc... Hmmmmmm I wonder who that could be? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
The Guru sounds like a moron. Unless you have a neck the size of a pencil, the VFX1 is not that bad. Like everyone is saying, the weight is very well distributed. I have both the VFX-1 and the I-glasses. As far as immersion the VFX-1 takes the cake. It offers a far more VR like experience. As for the look while wearing one; I didnt know people were wearing HMD's as fashion statements. | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
To Steve - and everybody else who's interested Please stay! We've been through this sort of arguments before... anyone remember the "Vapor plague"? I think it's wrong of you til leave the forum just because of ONE person. Just ignore her/him. If you leave, it will be yet another reason for making the discussion board a private, password protected forum in order to keep out the savages. (I'm NOT talking on behalf of Christoph, but back then, when Vapor was insulting various people, there WAS talk among some participants about introducing some sort of membership to the board). My point is, I think we should keep this board open to anyone, but then we need to be able to ignore trolls like guru. I can understand that you feel insulted, but that shouldn't make you leave a forum with lots of enthusiastic people who want to discuss interesting topics. Actually, what made me buy the VFX3D instead of the alternatives was - among other things - your presence in this forum. I think it's fine when manufacturers and resellers talk with the users. So please don't leave! Alex | ||
| VRone Rating: N/A |
If want to get in touch with the department head of almost any company, it's usually impossible. Companies as they all are growing, merging, forming oligopolies and so forth, build barriers to the public. Having any member from the VR hardware community in touch with the public-- is a rare thing. So, it's important that the exchange on this forum be somewhat...professional (for lack of a better word)...or at least "nice". Really, without the attention of the those who can really make a difference, conversations about the future of VR -- i.e. what we would like to see in a new HMD and so forth are just that conversations. Let's just assume that anyone who decides not to post here any longer may at least tune in to read. Also, the last posts were not without value. For example, if I were an engineer or product designer for an HMD manufacturer taking a tally of VR savvy consumer preference for shell design (if you look past the conflict) you could conclude from the past post that the large immersive shell with weight on the top of the head beats the less immersive "personal viewer" that has the weight on the top of the nose or wrapped to the head like a vice. It's also interesting to see how many people mentioned the importance of immersiveness. Companies afraid that the house will be burning down while you're fighting in another galaxy in your HMD tend to dislike the "immersive" idea, but...VR enthusiast want immersiveness. So how do you make an immersive design that's also safe? I'm going to start a new thread: What everyone wants in a new HMD. Perhaps this will get the focus off arguing about existing hardware and put the focus on the future-- which is where companies always look. The topic (about IIS updating their website) though significant (along with press releases) has little to do with the current direction of the discussion. A company interested in creating VR would find valuable the expectations of consumers, and so we may not figure out the next big thing (i.e. shell vs wrap-around mounts) but we can at least voice what we expect. | ||
| Eric Lindstrom Rating: N/A |
Sounds like a plan VROne, If you start that thread, I'm there! ^_^ Besides, these threads get a bit hard to negotiate when they get long like some of the last few, and it will insure that "brand loyalty" will not hinder the discussion. -Eric L. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I would pay $1000.00 to $1500.00 for a HMD system that would take the place of my 19" 1600x1200 monitor, 6 speaker 5.1 digital surround system, and shutter glasses. Hell, just tell me where to send the check, John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I would easily pay $2000 for a 50+ FOV, 800x600 res, HMD with headtracking. |
