| Author | Message | ||
     alprazolam Rating: N/A |
Bonjour à tous! I read most of the conversations about HMDs on this board for quite some time now. I noticed that conversations tends to heat up and this is not a bad thing in itself but we would gain more if they would not come to personal attacks against an individual. On with this topic... People are talking about I/O display i-glasses vs VXF3D and so on but almost nothing (if i'm not mistaken) on the new Cy-visor. I'm not taking sides for one company or another and i'm not affiliated with any of them. I'm only a researcher in human sciences but i had some good and bad experiences with HMDs. I know of the new i-glasses from I/O display with 800X600 resolution but dont have all the specs for now. I tried the "old" i-glasses 3D unit and it's impossible to read text (even big graphical fonts) without a headache. The resolution is insufficient, and on that, i conquer with most of the guys who posted on the board. From a gaming point of view, the unit is usable but a long way from acceptable. For research purposes it's defenitely less then adequate. Maybe the new 800X600 units will be the answer...will see. Back to the Cy-visor, i contacted DAEYANG E&C representative in Korea and he told me that the stereoscopic D series will be available in September. All the specs are at : http://www.personaldisplay.com/english/default.html This company is obviously proud of their product and every little peace of info is on a very neetly designed website. Even the tech they use in the LCD's is explained. I read about the technology and this unit is most impressive. It's versatile, superb resolution and has a lot of controls and possible settings. The price range is from $900US to $1200US depending on the model ($1200 is for the stereoscopic model coming in septembre). I know the price is a bit high but i think it's acceptable for the quality and capabilities of the product. The FOV is reasonnable but the immersiveness is as always lacking with a glasses type shell. Our research group is working on a solution to build a totally immersive shell for our future HMD cause immersiveness is a key requirement for our experimentation. The only way to achieve that in the pass was by closing the lights in the research room wich is not without it's problems! Also, the multisync capabilities of the other units that were discussed on the board is a real problem when it comes to versatility. I saw the running specs for the converter on the Cy-visor and it is most versatile with a lot of accessible settings. The other units like the i-glasses dont have the necessary settings for an adequate adjustment...i know cause i spent a huge amount of time trying to figure a way to adjust the screen, give it multisync capabilities with another converter etc. Maybe this unit could be the answer for our research purposes but we will definitely try it before buying it...THIS TIME. What do you think about it? Is the Cy-visor, in your opinion, a unit that could answer most of the "critique" that were made on this board? Sur ce, je vous souhaite une bonne discussion... | ||
| Maart Rating: N/A |
what kind of stereo format is used in this D-version? Maart | ||
| alprazolam Rating: N/A |
Hi Stewart!, Hi Maart! The stereoscopic model has two separate signals the only thing i know for now is that it's Fixed 24pin*2 signal entry. The complete specs for this particular model should be available soon. Yes Stewart, i know you are an official retailer for the DAEYANG E&C cy-visor and we will be sure to contact you as soon as the unit is available. For now, maybe you could give us the complete specs on the stereoscopic D model? I'm sure a lot of people would be interested by this particular unit! Have a nice day! | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Alpraz: 2 separate signals for stereo ? You mean input from 2 graphic card ? I hope that this is a bad joke ... They have no chance on the market without supportind standard stereoscopic output from 1 graphic card in the form of HW page flipped or interlaced image ... | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Another interesting question: What will be the price fot the additional headtracking unit ... Will it be + 300$ (corresponding approx to the VFX3D headtracker price) or will it be +1000$ corresponding to the chepest standalone InterTrack 3DOF headtracking unit ? How well will be the headtracking unit incororated in the system ? | ||
| Stewart Rating: N/A |
The only specifications I have seen so far for the D (3D Stereo) that are different from VP are: Stereo3D of course 12V@2A Power adapter Possibly the design type That is all I know of so far I guess we can speculate from there.... Also another svga (I hope this is right :-) stereo3D HMD should be hitting the streets sometime in June/July. Again I can speculate on specs but the bottomline is using the unit before purchase and hang tight until it is released. | ||
| Sharon Rating: N/A |
Stewart, Thank you for finally sending my money back on the vests I ordered. It took you two months to finally pay me back for items you said you had in stock when I ordered. I called countless times and no return call - I had to hunt you down. Just thought I would let everyone know how bad your service is. Sharon | ||
| alprazolam Rating: N/A |
Yes! two input from two graphic cards or from a dual head (or call it twinhead if you want!). That's the actual info i have from the korean company (if i'm not mistaken). But like Stewart said it's probably not the final specs. I'll double check on that! see : http://www.personaldisplay.com/english/default.html I'm with M.H. for the viability of the unit without support on one graphic card input. I'm sure the techs at Daeyang are working on that issue...They will surely enable the unit to work on one graphic card input. Will see... For the tracker part, i dont know what will be the one offered with the unit. We have the intertrax2 at the lab and are most impressed with it's accuracy, stability and light weight! I know the price for this tracker is a bit high for now but it's bound to go down... Now, for non stereoscopic purposes the Cy-visor VP model is largely dominant with the microdisplay true SVGA technology (for the price that is): http://www.microdisplay.com/ I/O display is also releasing a SVGA unit soon and i'm anxious to see the unit specs! Like Stewart mentionned, always try (if possible) before you buy! | ||
| alprazolam Rating: N/A |
Just got the info on the Cy-visor stereoscopic D model from daeyang : "Fixed 24pin*2 means two(2) 24pin cables are fixed in controller. It doesn't mean it takes two input unit, it is just one input. S. J. Choi." So M.H was right, it's just a single graphic input. The D model is still in R&D and should be available around september... | ||
| Stewart Rating: N/A |
Regarding "Sharon" (anon email) comment.... I have no idea what you are talking about or who you are? Obviously a so called competitor dropping bogus comments as well as emails to us. The way things have been going these days it is quite "obvious" who it is...grow up, stop posting here, and stop being rude. Stereo3d should seriously consider posting IP addresses with every post. Try spending time on improving the community/business instead of wasting everyones time and general internet bandwidth with pathetic/rude posts. You know who you are and so does myself and others. GROW UP! We have traced your IP with the help of Hotmail and other web based email services. Do yourself and the rest of us a favour and relax! P.S. Thanks for the info alprazolam on the Cy-Visor D | ||
| Eric Lindstrom Rating: N/A |
The Cy-Visor has interested me as well. I e-mailed them and asked for more info, and here was there response: I understand from the message below that you are interested in the new cy-visor DH4400VP SVGA display. As Mr. Choi stated, InterSense is a proud distributor of the headset as it has now become available for sale. List price for the display is $1200. Furthermore, InterSense has successfully bundled our popular InterTrax 2 3DOF head tracker with the DH4400VP. This combination has allowed the user to take VR applications to the next level as they are now immersed in a high resolution SVGA display with a superior real-time head tracker. Attached please find a technical data sheet for the tracker as it is displayed with the DH4400VP. List price for the bundled headset is $1,995. Thank you for your continued interest in the cy-visor DH4400VP and the InterTrax 2 and please let us know how we can assist you further. Best Regards, Mike ------------- Michael A. Donfrancesco Director of Worldwide Sales mikedon@isense.com Unfortunately, he didn't give mem any details on the stereo HMD that's due out soon, or if they'll even carry it at Intersense. At least it's nice tracking hardware! -Eric L. | ||
| alprazolam Rating: N/A |
Bonjour Eric! Did you read the specs on the Cy-visor at : http://www.personaldisplay.com/english/default.html I would like your "post availability" comments on the Cy-visor model D. I know that nobody tried them yet but based on the specification provided by DAEYANG E&C, what do you think about the unit and the technology used? What do you think of the converter unit? For my part I'm impressed! I read your comments on the IISVR Actually updated thier website! and What would you like to see in a new consumer HMD and other conversations. You seem to be quite the patriot! I would like to say that my first priority is to buy the best unit i can get for the price and i think that the Cy-visor VP is that unit for now and that the D model will also represent the best buy for a stereoscopic unit when it will be available (around september). I'm still curious about the I/O display SVGA units but have seen no specs yet!, there is also iisvr but i sincerely think that they will have difficulties to mesure themself with the Cy-visor versatility...will see! Anyway, we (at the research lab) are waiting for a stereoscopic SVGA unit to come around cause the VFX,I-glasses and all the others do not come close of responding to our research needs. The high end HMDs (like the keiser series) are much to expensive but i'm sure we can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel! The next year new HMD low cost generations will be a big revolution in the stereoscopic virtual reality world. Every house will have it's HMD like every house has it's TV in a very close future! I'm "this close" to buy one for my personnal use! cordialement... | ||
| Eric Lindstrom Rating: N/A |
Well, from what I've been told, and what I've read, the specs are nice. The resolution for the Cy-Visors is by far the best for the money spent; However, every time I inquire about the stereo model, I get the runaround from the distributors. The most consice information on this unit has been posted by the wonderful users of this forum here, and if not for them, I'd totally be in the dark. I suppose the distributors merely are watching what they say, since they don't want to "jump the Gun" when it comes to the system specs. seeing that the stereo-capable version isn't even out yet, they are probably waiting to see the finished product before dishing out the system specs. I've been looking to try out the Cy-Visor, but as of yet, i have not found a local distributor that can demo the unit for me, still, if it's as good as the spec sheets claim, it would definitely be worth the money. IIS is making attempts to meet consumer demand; Steve says that work on a new, High-res HMD is under way; Still, that one isn't out yet either. Time will tell if it will fit the role. I suppose if you are looking for a Hi-Res HMD that is mono, and has decent head-tracking, the intersense/Cy-visor package would fit the bill perfectly. Hopefully the stereo model will live up to the standards of the MONO version. Until then, however, The only real solution is to make your own HMD, which is kind of a backstep to the golden days of garage VR. Still, it's not out of the question to do this, but it would be costly. Luckily, the forums here are a breeding ground for ideas to make HMD's sharper, better and cheaper. who knows, it's only a matter of time before the "big breakthough" comes our way. When this happens, the HMD of our dreams won't be far behind. -Eric L. BTW: I think HMD's will be more of a personal item, Everyone in the house will have their own set. it's more hygenic, and the optics won't need constant adjustment for each user. Besides, how fun could it be if everyone in the household had to "take turns" as opposed to sharing an immersive experience. Future HMD's will be multi-role displays, allowing a user to display output from a multitude of devices (MP3 player, digital phone, GPS, PC, PDA, etc.) When the price is low enough, and the technology good enough, HMD's and personal displays will be as common as the wristwatch. We can hope they will, anyway ^_^ | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Does having/creating a wider FOV cause any extra cost in HMDs? I'm curious to know because it would be nice if the D series of Cy-Visors had a wider FOV for a more immersive environment. | ||
| alprazolam Rating: N/A |
A wider FOV would effectively provide a more immersive environement and would be a very good thing to implement in the D model but i dont have any information about the FOV of this model. I expect it to be around 31 degree of FOV like the other models but who knows! The FOV is surely limited by the LCD's they use in the unit. I would appreciate a wider FOV myself. I'll forward the question to the company and get back to you on this. P.S. Dont forget to consider that a wider FOV will result in more motion sickness specially at low frame rates. We are researching motion sickness in virtual reality and it's impact on postural stability (ataxia) at our lab. FOV is one of the major factors when it comes to motion sickness. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Sony showed a 60 degree FOV version of their LDI-D100B in August 1999 at SIGGRAPH. This doubled the D100B's horizontal resolution for a total of 1600x600! Problem is, it tripled the D100B's price ($4000) to $12000 (I'm pretty sure it had 4 of Sony's *extremely expensive* 8x6 polysilicon LCDs). However, overall, this was still pretty good price/performance compared to other HMDs available (and still today). I tried it and I was impressed. Unfortunately, soon after that unveiling came news that they weren't going to market it at all. In my opinion, Sony's lack of marketing enthusiasm was *completely* due to lack of software support (although their sales-side wasn't smart enough to realize it) -- they had no "killer app," or any apps at all for that matter. Kinda like in the early days of PCs when none of the big companies wanted to get involved in microcomputers -- they looked at them and said, "you can't do anything with these things..." but when the software started to come along to match the new hardware, they were proven wrong quickly. Some, like IBM, never were the same after such blunders. BTW, I tried the Cy-Visor at SIGGRAPH 2000. I was mildly impressed by the brightness of the LCoS microdisplays, but the "cheap" feel of the unit kind of got to me (and also a "bright band of pixels" along one side of one of the displays was bothersome). We'll see how the final model looks... although I likely won't buy one myself until the stereo model comes out (I AM VERY ANNOYED TO PAY FOR TWO DISPLAYS, ONE FOR EACH EYE, AND *NOT* HAVE STEREO CAPABILITY -- WHAT A WASTE!) | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I suffer from motion sickness on roller coaster rides, and a little in vehicles. But I dont think I have ever experienced it playing games like unreal tournament, and typically I sit around 20inches away from a 20 inch monitor doing day to day work (programmming and web browsing, etc) but when I play games, I sit about 13 inchs from my 20 inch monitor (around 58 deg?). But still I agree there is a relationship between frame rates and fov, because of perspective. If you are really close to something it appears to be moving faster, when you are far away it seems to be moving slower. But then that simply puts more on the importance of refresh rate and frame rate, cwonline.com says that the max refresh rate of CyVisor for 800x600 is 85hz (that sounds good to me), and if the software supports quality to performance and the video card is a powerful 3d accelerator then it should be a thinner issue, except maybe if there is other issues with LCoS microdisplays versus CRTs. I always felt though that, such a thing would give you head ache, and that motion sickness was more to do with motion sensors/motion capture. I'll probably experiment with polhemus myself, I have access to one of their low end systems. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hello. Im new to the VR scene... but have been researching it a bit. Finally found a board on the topic! :P Well I have a newbie question that sorta deals with the discussion in this thread. Ive been researching all the HMDs...because Im interested in getting one and getting into VR. It seems like theCy Visor is worth looking into....... but whats the difference between steroscopic and not? Remember Im a newbie. I m under the impression that stereoscopic is having two diff. pictures sent to each eye giving you the VR "feel". So if this latest Cy Visor isnt capable of steroscopic images..... then its not really VR.. its just like having a monitor strapped to your head? Or when used witha tracker it still gives a feel of VR... just not as good as a steroscopic unit would? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
OK just found the main page to this site :P So I have a better understanding of 3D Stereo... so I guess my question is.... could the latest Cy Visor (without stereo) be used for a good VR setup? Also. Does anyone know of any other good VR sites on the net? Sites with discussions like this one and up to date reviews? Seems like Ive searched the net forever and cant find that many good resources..... just distributors or makers... nothing in between :P Thanks | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
hi, i'm interested in the cyvisor/intertrax combination as well. i create panoramic images of future retail spaces and would love to use it as presentation tool for my IPIX and QTVR5 panoramas. is it possible to use cyvisor/intertrax to display IPIX or QTVR panoramas? VFX3D has piece software available for download to display IPIX images on their web site. is there and do i need something similar to enable IPIX for intertrax? ipix is mentioned on the intersense web site, but no in-depth information could be found. i e-mailed intersense several times to no avail. does anybody know anything about it? VFX3D offers only lower image resolution and i assume that intertrax is the suprior tracking system as well. any help is VERY welcome! thanks, adrian davidson | ||
| steve@iis Rating: N/A |
The VFX3D offers good resolution for stills, I think MH will back me up on that. The assumtion that the Intertrax tracking is supior is not exactly true, it is a different animal. If it doesn't work with the software you need or you can't get a return call the point is moot. The VFX3D will support high resolution when not in stereo mode, so still images look great. Steve@IIS | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
THE VFX3D: In mono 263x480 on each eye .... In stereo 263x240 on each eye ... You call that high resolution? You must be on crack! | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
The correct answer is : the VFX3D HMD resolution is not the botleneck for the QuicktimeVR and Ipix monoscopic panoramas now. The existing QuictimeVR and Ipix panormas have usualy so low real resolution especialy after zooming that the VFX3D resolution is de-facto higer and fully sufficient. Making higer resolution panoramas in QuicktimeVR and Ipix have HW limitation - this technology do not use the full power of HW texture manipulation with the images = manipulation with hi-res panoramas will be too slow ... It is not so much diffult to add support for other HW to my codes - but I need this HW for the code testing and good Windows compatible SDK ... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
thanks for the input michal. i was trying the software from your page. it is right on target. i tried one of your code examples containing the spherical quicktime VR "forrest". the resolution of this sample VR would not be sufficient for my application. i understand that you added the panorama to demonstrate the functionality of your (very useful) code samples. you certainly tried to keep the size of the VR small keeping in mind that people might download it on a 56k modem. what would you consider the maximum-resolution(in pixel) of a quicktime panorama to be used with a HMD with headtracking and a current PC. my panoramas are not stereoscopic. in fact, i didn't even hear about this possibility before visiting: http://mysak.umbr.cas.cz/~husakm/Public/VFX3D_headtracking/Headtracking.html the computer hardware itself doesn't have a problem displaying higher resolution QTVR panoramas as long as i use the clumsy old PICT format and display the panoramas fullscreen on my NHMD(non-head-mounted-display):-). where would be the expected bottlenecks while presenting QTVR ob a HMD? steve mentions above that the tracking of intertrax and the vfx3d are "different animals". could somebody elaborate on it? thanks again for the input. i appreciate it very much, adrian davidson | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
According hi resolution panorma - on my www is a OpenGL HW accelerated code with can display panormamas in 12000x1000 res on average HW. It use panormamatic JPEG as the source. Both mono and stereoscopic version are available ... For IPIX and QuicktimeVR such solution is imposible ... They shuld inovate both technologies taking capabilites of nowadays graphic cards in mind ... According maximum res of QuicktimVR movies: You shuld try to download some hi res panorma from Quicktime WWW and try it on your HW. I have only P III on 500 MHz for testing ... The power of modern standard PC is higher ... According "different animals" VFX3D x IniterTrack 3DOF trackers : 1) The price of chepest InterTrack 3DOF tracker is 1000 USD . Compare it wiht the price of the whole VFX3D headset .... 2) There is no standard for input from from 3 DOF trackers. Both devices have diferent drivers (but the obtained numbers, yaw, roll and pitch are identical) 3) I am not sure abot the 3DOF measurement principles used. VFX3D probably use magnetick field measurement. It is posible that InterTrack use microgyroskopes (more precise) and magnetic field for drift corections only ... My oven opinion is, that for normal usage when motion capturinga and thinks like that are not required , the quality of VFX3D tracking is sufficient ... It is a pity that this tracking system is not available separately. It will be e.g. useful to mount it in my weapon-joystic mentioned elsewhere ... | ||
| Gary McCray Rating: N/A |
Back to the Cy-visor D model for a moment. I have sent them several Emails requesting additional data on availability, delivery dates and stereo capabilities. They never replied to me. This web site is the first encouraging news I have seen on this product aside from their own rather weak web site. I truly hope the D stereo model becomes available at the $1200.00 price. If it does it will finally make useful HMDs and the associated immersion possible for those of us who have been waiting for it for a long time. VR is an incredibly important technology with much of Bill Gates so called convergence headed strongly in that direction, but without useful resolution HMDs available to real consumers at affordable costs it has been entirely limited to grossly expensive government, military, medical and research applications. The cheap high res HMD (minimum 800x600 real) is the only missing piece of hardware. It does need a generic Direct3D 3D stereo driver as with VFX or the many shutterglasses, and it does need to have reasonable headtracking ability, but given that, in one unit, the real VR revolution will begin. If anybody knows if the Cy-visor will provide a generic direct 3D driver or if it can be adapteed to one of the shutterglass drivers I would really like to know. And whoever actually sees one of the model D's in operation, please post your considerations here as soon as you can. Thanks For your input, Gary | ||
| alprazolam Rating: N/A |
I'm back from a few weeks "time off"! I think we should have received a Cy-visor model DH-4400VP (non stereoscopic) that our lab bought not long ago. I'm trying it today with an intertrax2 tracker and a 5TH glove and will give you a detail commentary on the unit qualities and weaknesses when i get back. As for the D model...god knows when it will come out! (the last updated info i had on that was way in 2002) but the specs and price will be for sure in the same range as the VP unit (+ or - 1200US). I would also like to have some more info on the D model if anybody out there has seen one!!! CIAO! | ||
| Robert Statham Rating: N/A |
Where did you end up buying your Cy-Visor? I would like to get some ideas of pricing so we can factor it into our budget for this fall? | ||
| yomer Rating: N/A |
I bet companies like Sony, IIVR, Olympus and such can make HMD's cheaper than 400 dlls, the materials are not that expensive. Its just that expensive because of the technology. Take the Cy-cisor into account. They feel cheap, those could cost 200 or 300 when mass produced. I hope the new models from the companies which are due for this fall will get a lot cheaper. | ||
| Robert Rating: N/A |
Well they kill their own market. Late eighties/early nineties when VR first became big news, people got sick of the gloss when in reality they ended up spending more money on asprin after using the hardware, and the hype just never quits. Things always look twice as good on paper as they really are because of competition, everyone has to hype their products. So i guess us consumers more than anything else are to blame because the hype works in some cases. In this case though, people don't want to buy the crappy equipment and it's going to take some time and REAL equipment to get people to buy. Until that happens, production runs will be low in number = fewer sales = higher cost to pay for r&d and the rest.. But back to the topic, eerrrwwfffff, mabye i should be waiting to buy a display until 2002. This discussion seems to paint a target in that year for the release of something USEful, a real departure from the current models..? I can only imagine what the hype will be like if it reall IS a serious step towards a DECENT affordable headset. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
OK, getting close to september now, any sight of the stereo model of the Cy-Visor? Anyone got any fresh info? | ||
| JJ Rating: N/A |
Anyone try the new i-visor? |
