| Author |
Message |
    
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 6:38 pm: |     |
I have just finished work on my first prototype of
Monster Killer 1 (MK 1) joystick like device witch
very well combines with VFX3D usage:
If you use it in combat, you realy have the feeling that you can tell something to the mosters:
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M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2001 - 6:53 pm: | |
How it works ? It unfortunately does
not have build in tracking. You will
find electronic from a disassembled standard
cheap joypad inside. The device has
6 functional buttons. The green and red one
are for joystick forward and backward
motion. The small red button near the shooting
trigger is configured as "change weapon".
On the back part are 2 additional buttons
usually configured as jump and down.
The left and right joystick buttons are not necessary
because they are perfectly replaced by the VFX3D tracking functions.
I am just testing the ergonomy of the whole thing.
Plastic toy model of M16A2 was used for construction. |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2001 - 7:36 am: | |
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Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 2:37 am: | |
Hat's off, MH-- looks cool. Suggestion-- some foot/leg action to trigger say...the jump...that would be easy to do by directing a joypad button to a large carpet-button of sorts. Jump up and down on the carpet and your character jumps....perhaps not as simple since the carpet-button will have to be "on" by default since you are standing on it...well if you did the gun, I'm sure you could figure that minor detail out...just an idea...
keep us posted. |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 8:38 am: | |
Anonymous: foot triger is a good idea especialy for jumping or things like that, but it will unfortunately not work. You are rotating your whole body when you use 3DOF navigation for the scene walkthrought. The position of your legs
changes to much ... But I have got another idea - sensor for knee angle measurement. It could give commands for jupmp/down or soo ... |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 1:11 pm: | |
I suggested the floor jump button. Well, I was thinking about a rather large pad that would sit on the floor and act like a button. In this way, you could move around a good bit. If you use your knee-- I'm not sure how that would work.... The jump is either on or off. You can jump from a standing position without much knee movement...maybe you're right. The fewer things that you have attached to your body the better though... |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 3:29 pm: | |
Big floor button not dependent on
user rotation could be the solutin.
Somethink like in lifts ....
I just do not know how to indicate the
down motion of the body ... |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 3:30 pm: | |
How bout using a baseless joystick. Then you would have some direction to your gun??
-Kevin |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 3:54 pm: | |
Basseles joystic do not have usualy yaw
sensor. In adition none of existing games have
separate weapon targeting and movement direction
command. Special game engine and good 3DOF
sensor in th weapon will be the soultion ... |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 4:01 pm: | |
MH, I suggested the jump pad. Okay-- the mechanics-- consider this:
objects:
large plywood pad
small springs to push the pad up
metal bracket
joypad that you can hack
Attach the springs to the bottom of the pad and arrange the bracket so that it is attached to the floor. Attach the pad button upside down on the bracket in such a way that it is pressed "on" by the pad which is "springing" up. In this way it is by default on when you are not standing on the pad and off when you are. Jump on the pad, releasing the downward force on top and the springs beneath it raise up quickly and press the pad against the joypad button which is attached to the bracket which in turn is attached to the floor. The springs under the pad would have to be somewhat weak so that the floor doesn't feel springy when standing on it.
This way you can stick with hacking the gamepad. |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 5:09 pm: | |
Anonymous: It shuld work. Instead of
small springs could be used
solid state tenzometrs + some more sophisticated
electonic. I will think it over .. |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 6:39 pm: | |
Yeah, I was going to mention using tenzometrs...um, what's a tenzometr?  Perhaps some gidgets and gadgets will be better-- I'm not a mechanical engineer.
I'm sure what you dream up will be better than my idea by a long shot...keep us posted.
"Maybe you could offer your Monster killer setup for sale here." |
Rob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2001 - 10:50 pm: | |
Id buy one |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 7:55 am: | |
Tenzometer is a small an cheap device witch can
measure precisly pressure (or mechanic tenzion in the material). It changes its electrical resistense in response. It does not have any mechanic parts and I am sure that it will be able to correctly examinate the preasure changes on the floor plate.
Accrording sellink MK 1 - I am not a company. You can make similar thing yourself , the price of nessery parts is about 30 $ ... |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2001 - 7:59 am: | |
According the tenzometers: It will be nessery to
add an code with will study the history of the presure on the floor. It will be probably easy to
examine from this data if you are jumping or
just simply going down. The time/presure dependence
shuld be specific for such movement ... |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 6:00 pm: | |
MH don't overestimate the average mechanical ability of users. ;) If you could give everyone more details on your system after it's finished it would be much appreciated. In this way we can put together our own.
Hey remember this:
/image
The power pad from Nintendo-- available at ebay.com
Step on the buttons for game control. |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 6:02 pm: | |
\image power pad |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2001 - 6:04 pm: | |
I give up on the image here is the link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1239744615 |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 8:04 am: | |
The power pad device look realy interesting.
Does anybody know if it works on mechnical
principle or if it have some more sophisticated preasure sensors ? |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 8:08 am: | |
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Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 1:26 pm: | |
I don't know, but they're very cheap on ebay...so you could pick one up and hack it easily. |
Rob
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 5:35 pm: | |
how bout hacking a cyberpuck for tracking? that plus a hacked controller would give tracking plus more buttons |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 7:40 am: | |
Cyberpuck does not have yaw position sensor,
esential for shooting navigation.
In adition cyberpuck probably use fluid based
measuremnt of the angles (based on gravity) with
is not precise. Solid state 3DOF sensot based
on magnetic field measurement or InetraCube will
be nessery for MK1 ...
In adition - you will get trouble with not
supported double navigation (separated shoting
from looking direction) again ... |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 2:45 pm: | |
This is why it is important to get the software developers and the hardware guys working together.
MH, I think putting the forward and back buttons on the gun along with a jump pad is a good idea; however, what about crouching...maybe the pad for jumping and a knee sensor like you suggested for crouching.
You'll get a workout after it's all finished-- crouching and jumping. |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2001 - 7:11 am: | |
Crouching is there as well - button 2
on the back of the weapon is jump, button 3
is crouching. The game will be not-playbale
without that.
But it looks that the floor sensors will
be more suitable for this purpose - the
left hand have enought work with the
forward/backward buttons and it is diffult
to press jump an forward simultanously
for several sort of actions ...
I am more afraid that the hardcore gamers
will be not happy with the whole equipment ..
They will be forced to move during the combat,
nothing like sitting and pressing the buttons .. |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 2:21 pm: | |
How to implement force feedback ?
The testink of MK-1 show, that the ergonony
is O.K. . One of the most wanted future
by the test users was tracking and force feedback.
To implement the force feedbecak will be probably
more easy. Does anybody have some experiences ?
Some electromagnetic vibrator will be optimal ...
I am afraid about folowing problems:
1) the max. current of the 5 V joystick input
is probably only 200 mA, some condensator
acumuating the energy for the pulses
will be nessesery. Colud it work with such low
power supply only ?
2) the electromagnetic device used for vibration could induce hi voltage during switch-out. Any idea how to protect the computer ?
According the weapon tracking - does anybody know some games witch separate weapon-movement
navigation ? I think about using the
InterSense System + mause emulation for the weapon navigation and VFX3D system + joystick emulation for the user navigation ... |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 11:23 pm: | |
(I suggested the jump pad.)
MH-- As far as force feedback on a standing game-- I'm assuming that you mean gun-kickback-- in English language that is the force you feel when you fire the gun.
What about using some mechanical device to kick the gun back perhaps powered by an aircompressor connected to the gun via air tube and a piston of some type in the gun that hammers the gun backwards into your arms. It could be triggered serperately from the computer via the play gun trigger.
One problem is that it would not work with machine gun weapons-- but the fire once guns would be cool. (Another problem would be that the weapons would kickback even when they are fired without ammunition.) |
M.H.
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 7:31 am: | |
Anonymous: You are speaking exactly about what
I mean - gun-kicback. I am afraid that the
air compresion way will be to expensive
and complicated ...
I think more about some electromagnetic device.
The distingustion betwen machine gun devices and
single shot could be done on the base of the triger preasure time. Impulse for single shot,
impuls and vibration for machine gun ...
The best method will be evcose comunication with the game engine to check the amunition and
gun type ... Maybe I will be forced to write my
game engine with this futures + double
weapnon/user tracking , just for fun ...
Or modify some open source engines ...
If I only have somebody for cooperation with
enought software/hw experiences .... |
Anonymous
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2001 - 3:11 pm: | |
(Jumpad suggester here) For force feedback, insead of creating new software, how about hacking the keyboard number buttons in the same way that you hacked the game pad. In this way, perhaps you could set up a dial-like mechanism-- a wheel of sorts-- on the gun that allows the user to quickly cycle through the weapons by selecting one of the numbers on the keypad using the knob/wheel.
The mechanism would be prewired to the machine gun forcefeedback devices. In this way you would get all of the functions for weapon switching in the gun itself. The only problem would be a mechanical method to adjust each knob setting for machine gun or single shot. I'm thinking of another series of switches on the gun that allows you to set each knob setting for each game to either machine gun or single shot. This setup would be flexible...and allow you to setup single shot and repeat feedback without requiring special coding.
Another idea for mixing the number keys into the gun: Instead of the wheel, you could arrange the buttons in a half moon shape on the shaft of the gun-- triggered by the thumb-- one button with a raised portion so that it can be used like a home key. With two rows in a half moon shape, it would be easy to reach all the buttons with the thumb on the hand that holds the shaft of the gun.
(Maybe you could hack the mechanisms in a cheap doorbell-- the ones that use a piston-like device to strike a bell bar-- to give some feedback.)
Also, on a humorous note-- there are many devices that are used to exercise muscles using a mild shock. I've tried one of these that belonged to someone else and on it's highest setting it is uncomfortable to say the least. If you were going to modify an engine for feedback, it would certainly be entertaining to watch your buddies get zapped when their virtual character dies. In this way taking a virtual gun in hand would require a mild bit of bravery. I think it would be great fun. I doubt players would use the same tactics of running into a room widely spraying ammo like rain if they knew getting shot would get them shocked. It would make the game much more realistic.
You could even have the software trigger one of several electric pads for a specific region of the body. For example, get shot in the back, and you get shocked there.
Just a few ideas. Keep us posted. |