| Author | Message | ||
     M.H. Rating: |
I was trying to hack GeForce 3 to Quadro by the soft-Quadro tool (under w 2k). The quad buffered OpenGL was working for simple applications but the OpenGL engine crashed for more complex scenes. It will be probably necessary to tune the SoftQuadro for GeForce 3 ... Did anybody make some stereoscopic graphic speed tests for hacked GeForce under w2k ? ( I mean comparison of mono and stereo mode). | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
Hi Michal I'm trying a similar setup (mentioned in the ongoing thread on dual vga stereo). However one thing puzzles me: Do you need to install a separate stereo driver, or is it included in the detonator driver? What did you use? Alex | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Hi Alexander The standard stereoscopic OpenGl support for quad-buffered stereo HW page flipping( I mean activation of quad bufering via PFD_STEREO in pixeformatdescriptor) is build in the normal Detonator drivers for Quadro (NT and w2k version). No aditional stereoscpic drivers are nessesery. I use it with Elsa Gloria III and it works under w2k excelent ... It works fast and it is totaly stable ... I was tring to hack GeForec 3 to Quadro DDR ... It works only partialy, the OpenGl is extremly slow and unstable after hacking by the help of normal SoftQuadro 1.0 ... beter hacking method oprimized for Quadro DDr will be probably nessesery ... | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
Hi Michal I *think* I did the quad buffering activation in the Windows "Display Properties" by selecting "Enable Quadbuffered Stereo API" under "additional properties" plus in RivaTuner by selecting "Force Quadro". I might be mistaken, though. Have you tried RivaTuner? If so, can you confirm, that I've done the right thing? Anyway, pixelformatdescriptor sounds a bit strange to me. If RivaTuner can do the trick, I'd be happy. If not, can you give me an easy how-to? The SoftQuadro patches included in RivaTuner are (to my knowledge) further developed than the stand-alone SoftQuadro patches. They might work better with your GF3 card. RivaTuner can be found at www.guru3d.com Alex | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
RivaTuner is only needed for patching the drivers, first for GF->Quadro and then if newer than 1440 drivers are used, patching the opengl protection is needed (also in rivatuner). Then install the drivers and all should work OK and options should be available in the advanced settings. | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
Alex, I was reading your post http://www.guru3d.com/forum/read_msg.php?tid=186&forumid=ubb11 How is going on? Giorgio. | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
Anonymous, I did the patching as you described. And I *do* have options such as "Enable Quadbuffered Stereo API" in the settings. I guess I'll have to do some more fiddling around to learn the effects of the settings. Giorgio, No progress so far. Can't activate stereo in QuakeIII. Besides, I'm concerned if it's possible to play OpenGL apps that are not inherently stereoscopic (see the thread at guru3d). Alex | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Alex: The OpenGl support could be used only by application witch are "nativ stereoscopic". It means that the quad-buffered stereoscopy is implemented in the code as one of the visualisation option. You can find a list of such applicatios on stereovisionnet There are no OpenGl "stereoscopic wrapers" for w2k now. | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
Michal Thanks. That's a bit of a disappointment not being able to run all OpenGL apps, but your information saves me much trouble and confusion. Does anyone know how to enter console commands in QuakeIII? I can open a console by pressing the §/½ key (the one to the left of the number one key), but when I write "r_stereo 0" (which is supposed to give stereo), nothing happens. ...Except for the message "UnnamedPlayer: r_stereo 0" appearing in the console. Alex | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Alex, you shuld read this WWW witch desribes the problmatic in details: http://www.stereovision.net/articles/nvidiaopengl/nvstereoogl.htm The correct Quake III seting is there (it realy works) + much more useful information. | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
I read the article, applied the settings and... IT WORKS!!! I've got QuakeIII running with left eye's perspective on one VGA output, and right eye's on the other. All right, it won't work with *all* OpenGL games, but being able to play QuakeIII isn't bad. Thanks for the link. I visit stereovision.net regularly, but I didn't notice this article. Alex | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
How did you separate the signal to 2 VGA outputs ? HW page flipping gives 1 alternated signal on 1 VGA output ... | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
I selected "enable stereo" in the OpenGL settings of RivaTuner, and chose "via TwinView Clone Mode". You have to click the small triangular arrow by the driver settings under the "main" tab in RivaTuner to go to OpenGL settings. Alex | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
addition to the post above: Please note that it only works under Windows 2000 | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Mr Oest, you rule! Submitted this info to Stereovision.net, might end up in that article. Thanks for the pointers! | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
Would someone mind giving me an idea of the cost of obtaining two projectors to utilize dual VGA output and what would the the projectors that would be preferable? Thanks | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Steven: The answer is not easy. The used projector must have folowing futures: 1) Bright. You will get about 70% light intensity lose during the dual polarization filtering (one in the projector, second in the glasses) 2) The output from the project must be non-polarized by the projector optic. You must place your polarizator on it - it will wrong interact when the projector produce polarized light itself. The price could be 2500$ at minimum per projector ... You shuld try some DLP based projector instead of LCD one ... The best way is to try the setup before buying ... I have unfortunately only theoretical expereinces with this setup ... | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
Steven, Michal is right, you have to try. Some LCD projectors polarize at the right angle for one eye so you'll have to put the polarizing filter only in front of the other one. Anyway in this case you'll not need a polarizing filter that blocks all wrong light polarizations: you'll get zero light emission for the other projector. You need something that can rotate the polarization of light; in this way you'll have no light intensity loose. As Michal told you, the easier way is to find a projector that can output no polarized light. Giorgio. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
There is no polarization in DLP's? So how do you find projectors "that can output no polarized light"? That's usually not mentioned in the specs since most users don't care about that, or? | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
You're right. That's why you have to try. I don't know about DLP polarization's effect. Maybe is better for you to look for expensive CRT projectors or use anaglyph data/glasses. Giorgio. | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
I use Davis DL x10 DLP projectors, and as far as I can tell, there's no polarisation. I tried to rotate a polarisation filter in front of a projector, and there was no change in the picture at all. I think this applies to all DLP projectors. Rotating the polarisation of LCD projectors should be possible. There is an optical component called a lambda-half plate that rotates polarisation (ninety degrees, I think - a lambda-quarter plate would rotate it 45 degrees as far as I can figure). This might be useful, as LCD projectors are available cheaper and in larger supply than DLP. I've never tried these plates myself - and I don't know where to get hold of them. No matter which projector type you choose, you'd better try them out before buying, as Michal says. Try rotating a polarisation filter in front of the DLP projectors to see if there's any shift in light intensity. Try searching ebay to get an idea of the price of used projectors. I agree with the other guys: If you've got the money, DLPs should be preferred. One last thing: Try to get two projectors of same make and model. Aligning two different projectors might be very difficult. And remember: You need a non-depolarising screen to project your images upon. Alex | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
DLP projectors use chips with micro-mirror devices. The light intensit is adjusted by the micro mirror position. There shuld be no polarization in this equipment. DLP shuld be brighter than LCD becous there is no so much lose of light in them ... LCD projector use the effect of changing the light polarization during liquid crystals orienation and de-orientation. The light polarization is the key for the functionality in this case ... Alex: Do you have some comparison of using CRT and shutteglases and 2 DLP and polarization glasses according quality ? Teh Barco people were telling me that CRT is much more better ... | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
Michal, No, I have no comparison. Once I get the two DLPs properly mounted and get a non-depolarising screen (plus glasses, polarisers etc...), I'll know. Barco might be right in a way, but only under ideal conditions (and newer and way more expensive projectors than mine). My Barco projector looses focus and alignment every two weeks. Re-aligning it takes at least half an hour. Therefore, it's hardly ever used. It weighs almost 100 kilos. It's expensive (around 4000 € or US$ for a used one), it needs an adapter to take the VGA signal. There's ghosting (not much, but it's there). Plus, synchronising ten pairs of shutterglasses for larger audiences is a pain. I really look forward to using two DLPs instead. Alex | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the info. Steven | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Steven: What equipment will you use for getting the signal for this two projectors ? | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
This is what I could see, and my opinion about two great stuffs: BARCO CRT + SHUTTERGLASSES Very expensive (>40.000 EURO for a green phosfor modified projector) and a lot of emitters needed, some flickering (95 Hz) BARCO 2 x LCD STEREO-READY PROJECTORS + POLARIZED GLASSES Expensive (2 x 10.000 EURO pre-polarized LCD projectors by Barco), ghosting caused by the not completly non-depolarising silver screen My suggestion is: 2 x DLP projectors and no silver screen but a rear projection on the back of a common matt glass. I've seen a stereo rear-projection using two DIA-projectors; it looked fine. Even the best silver screen will give you some de-polarisation, and so some ghosting; in this way you'll get no ghosting at all. Yes, of course you'll need some space behind the screen .... Giorgio. ALEX, what's the frame rate playing Quake you reached hacking the dual-head GeForce 2 to Quadro chipset? Have you tried "WIN-3D and vrcaddy" (the new release supports dual-head GeForce 2) for not "OpenGL+stereoready+WIN2000"-games? Have you got a better frame rate testing GLDirect? THX | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Giorgio: For playback of Quake in stereo throw Winx3D, you will need to use OpenGl-> D3D wrapers. This solution is usualy unstable and you can get speed about 1/3 of normal pure OpenGl based performance ... | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
Thank Michal, I hoped something better ... Anyway there're not so much stereo-ready games like Quake out there, I was looking for a "not so bad" but "general" solution and I was asking about how "bad" it would be. Giorgio. | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
Michal, I had no certainty of plans, but my interest was peaked by Alexander Oest's description quoted below. I'll have to upgrade to Win2000 to see how this works for me, but I must say the price of the projectors is a bit forbidding. "I selected "enable stereo" in the OpenGL settings of RivaTuner, and chose "via TwinView Clone Mode". You have to click the small triangular arrow by the driver settings under the "main" tab in RivaTuner to go to OpenGL settings. Alex" | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
Giorgio, Replies spliced in... Alex - what's the frame rate playing Quake you reached hacking the dual-head GeForce 2 to Quadro chipset? I don't know, but it was fast and smooth. Is there a way to see the frame rate from wihtin the game? - Have you tried "WIN-3D and vrcaddy" (the new release supports dual-head GeForce 2) for not "OpenGL+stereoready+WIN2000"-games? Yep, but it didn't work. David Qualman said that we need an updated version of vrcaddy. So I'm waiting for that. - Have you got a better frame rate testing GLDirect? No, I've been busy with other work lately. But I will try. Sometime. Soon. | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
Steven, You write: "...but I must say the price of the projectors is a bit forbidding." You might be able to get a cheap CRT projector that works. I guess it depends who you buy from. Some home cinema freaks pay large sums for them, but if you buy from someone who thinks it's old, bulky and obsolete, you might get it cheap. Some CRT projectors might work without the interface that mine needs. Some might keep their adjustments better than mine. Some might be way smaller and lighter. I'm afraid I sounded a bit too negative with my own projector. It might be a good solution for you. Especially with smaller audiences who know how to use shutterglasses. Having one at home is not an option for me - my girlfriend wouldn't accept having this hundred kilo monstrosity hanging on the wall. Your situation might be different. ...and then you would be able to use good old proven page flipping and shutterglasses instead of yet immature dual-vga solutions... Alex | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
Thank Alex, you answered me: "fast and smooth" is enough, I don't know where you can read exact frame-rate. Let's hope WIN3D or GLDirect may give us a "general" solution ... we cannot play Quake all the time. Steven, one more: check the CRT before buying it. Giorgio. | ||
| Steven Rating: N/A |
Alex and Giorgio, Thanks for the advice re the CRTs. I'll look around and see whats out there. Steven |
