| Author | Message | ||
     DJLins Rating: N/A |
Got a problem with edimensional glasses running on a Dell 3200MP (DLP) projector thru a gainward fx5700 card. Edimensional have been great in their support and I fully agree with other posts about them on this forum blessem, but we have got to a stage where they dont support projectors and I am so close I dont want to give up. My test was to close my right eye and record my results of what I see thru my left eye while running 60Hz on 640 x 480 resolution and 1024x768 resolution. (Running the spinning nVidia test on 3D stereo properties screen) 70Hz and 85Hz seems to be totally wrong (I see both images on one eye) so I thought I would only mention 60Hz as it seems to be working the best. 640x480 When it starts I see the left eye image and no right eye image (perfect 3D), then over the next 6 seconds the right eyes image becomes stronger and stronger until both images are of equal intensity for the left eye. Then over the next 6 seconds the original image fades out, so after 12 seconds my left eye can only now see the right eye’s image. Then on the 13th second it flips, the image jumps to the right and I am looking at a perfect 3D image again. Which goes out again over the next 6 seconds (The whole cycle for perfect 3D back to perfect 3D is 13 seconds) 1024x768 The same sort of things happen as with the smaller resolution except here it takes longer, I get about 10 seconds of perfect 3D, then it starts to go out and after 20 seconds my left eye sees both images then it takes another 20 seconds for the right eye image to become totally stronger and the image to flip back to perfect 3D again – So the total cycle of events for this one from being perfect 3D to being perfect 3D again is about 40 seconds. Because it flips straight back to 3D at the end of a cycle and doesnt fade back in I think it is a graphics card thing (recorrecting back to the glasses flickering when it realises it is 180 degrees out maybe) but I am not sure. Any suggestions would be greatly received, Lindsay. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Lindsay Nathan is 'The Man' at edimensional. I am experimenting with home brew 3d projectors at the moment and had this back from him yesterday. They are working on an LCD driver (main issue was that Laptop displays have no facility to get at the video single unlike stand alone monitors) and are working to extend this to work well with projectors. Looks like you may have to wait for a solution but take heart that someone is actually trying to get a solution out there for people that have moved away from CRTs and have LCDs and Projectors. Lindsay I agree with your sentiments, people seem to complain a lot that edimensional drivers have issues with ATI hardware for instance...all I can say is be patient guys, writing drivers is not easy. Edimensional are not Nvidia they only have a small team and they are investing their money to improve their products and our experience. Even Nvidia with its £multi million turnover release the stereo drivers well after a mainstream driver release...If was so easy why have ATI not taken the high ground here as well? If edimensional manage to give driver level support to LCDs and Projectors then it will be Nvidia who have to play catch up in the 3d stereo world! I personally think its brave and great that a small player is trying to compete in this field. After all once you have games running at max fps, all eye candy turned on, at massive resolutions what else is there to do but actual 3d? Good luck edimensional. All the best Peter -----Original Message----- From: Nathan Newman [mailto:nathan@eDimensional.com] Sent: 29 March 2004 16:30 To: Subject: RE: We haven't tested projectors yet, but when we need beta testing I will let you know. Regards, Nathan | ||
| Lindsay Rating: N/A |
Hiya, cheers for that. Yeah Nathan is da man, I have been pestering him for the last 2 months pretty much solidly, and I think I may of worn him down now where every suggestion he has for me, doesn't bring results. So the last suggestion to me was simply "We don't support projectors" which was a bit dissheartenning. I have also written a few device drivers in my time and know the pitfalls, and know all about getting people just saying "It doesnt work,, fix it,, and what you want to do to these complainers heheh" Other forums seem to show people have got around this phase shifting of frequencies by getting their xga projector to compress a higher resolution onto their screen (Say by showing 1200x1024 on an xga native projector at 60Hz) I can seem to get it to slow up so it takes over a minute now to totally go out and back into phase again, but this means you get longer 3D but also longer non 3D moments. The shame of it is, when the phases of the glasses and screen are in sync then it is perfect 3D, and damn impressive, so it has proved itself to work.. but it just goes out after a few seconds and you have to wait a minute for it to come back in again. I hope the new drivers help me out.. One thing tho, I see that refreshratelock claims that it can change the display frequency by 1Hz at a time. Does anyone know how to do this? Perhaps this would take away my phase shifting... cheers aggen Lindsay. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Lindsay refreshing to talk with another non moaner! Its great to get something working yourself, push those boundries a bit. Have you checked out the home brew LCD projector site? Quite a bit of info on how comercial projectors work. Looks like the dlp is producing some lag compared to the glasses. I expect the dongle syncs the glasses to the signal in the cable that the only way to change the freq of the glasses will be via that signal. This won't get rid of the signal processing lag from the dlp. Here's a thought though. Use two computers and two dongles. The first you use to drive the projector. Don't use those glasses as they will lag the dlp picture. The second you use to 'tune' the separate glasses to the frequency of the projector... Three difficulties will remain though. Finding the freq sweet spot Starting the glasses on off cycle at the same point as the dlp cycle Drift between the two Its a thought though! | ||
| RAGEdemon Rating: N/A |
I have had success in all 3 aspects. Brose around for my post on how it started to work for me. Yes, you will need alot of tinkering, but the end will definately justyfi the means. -- RAGEdemon | ||
| DJLins Rating: N/A |
Yeah I have gone all through the settings RAGEdemon, I have found that phasing happens where it slides to the left and skips to the right on 1024x768 and as I go up it slows up and gets to the point where it slides to the right and skips to the left, but I cant find the darn setting to go in between and stay solid... | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
Lindsay: I have a pair of Dell 4100's which are set up for polarized use. This works fine, but needs, of course, a special screen. I believe the reason you are seeing the results you do is that at 60Hz you are "accidentally" matching a harmonic of the output (display) frequency that the 3200s are using. My tests (I have a proper lab for this sort of thing) clearly show that the output frequency of the 4100s is constant regardless of the input frequency the computer is feeding them. This also explains why it doesn't work at all at 75Hz, as then your glasses are running at 75Hz but your projector remains running at (a multiple of) 60Hz. I am a bit surprised that you don't mention colour issues, specifically a slow shift of colours, as you would be also matching the colour wheel frequency at 60Hz. | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
Sorry about that, I ovbiously didn't mean to address that to Lindsay -- need more coffee, I guess. It should have said DJLins | ||
| DJLins Rating: N/A |
heheh Lindsay, DJLins, its cool. Yeah - If you mean by colour shifting that when phasing happens, a solid line will fade in yellow then look its proper colour and then the one that started off solid will turn to red as it fades out. That happens. Is that what you mean by colour wheel phasing? Also is there any suggestions you can give me to try? cheers muchly, ex DJ Lindsay  ) | ||
| Alatar Rating: N/A |
I'm afraid that I don't know how (yet?) to make a single DLP projector work with alternate eye. You might try driving the glasses from the projector rather than the video card, but you would need an inductive pickup or something similar to detect the sync. Even if it worked, though, my belief is that you would still have colour issues due to the colour wheel. The polarized method works very well with DLP projectors, but you need two of them. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
On my X1 I have to set the projector's settings to 4:3 ratio (not native), 60Hz, and 800x600 res so there is no signal compression. I turn of sync threshold adjust and adjust my phase to 68. I'm running my color saturation at 81 across the board. on my card I decrease gamma and contrast slightly. running seperation at 20 percent. 4xaa and 8x ansio on works in D3D applications. It's still not as good as my 19 Sony trinitron was but I have about a 90 FOV at 6ft from a 123" screen. I'm going to get a polorized filter to play with to see if another projector is worthwhile. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
How much did the "special screen" set you back? John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
It occured to me that I could hook my glasses to the monitor out connection of the projector to see if there would be and difference. It's probably just a pass thru but maybe not. I'l be back. Damn it's nice to have some PJ people here. John | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Just a pass thru. Oh well. John | ||
| Oly Scott Rating: N/A |
Hi can you clarify that your X1 does work with shutter glasses? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Oly there is a whole thread on this Unclebob | ||
| olyscott8 Rating: N/A |
I have the Encounter in the 3rd Dimension DVD and House of Wax with EDimensional Wired PC glasses...Here's my experience. 1. I tried playing the DVDs through my SET TOP dvd player to my Sharp 100hz 28" Widescreen TV. It is in syc for about 15-20 seconds and then slowy goes out of sync to reversed 3D and back. When in sync it looks awsome! 2. Then I turned on my Infocus X1...same video feed. The image on screen seems to show both images at the same time. I can't seem to get the projected image to display properly? 3. Tried playing the DVDs through my computer (Power DVD) to my projector. Same thing, the image does not display correctly. There seems to be no definate left and right image with little flicker. 4. I'm in the UK and the discs are obviously NTSC but both my TV and the X1 are pure NTSC capable. any idea on how to get the TV to stay in-sync or to get the projector to display these movies correctly? | ||
| DJLins Rating: N/A |
Are there any applications out there that allows you to easily swap frequencies on a 1 Hz plus or minus? I have a feeling 59 might work I can get mine to stay in 1 minute cycles now, so I get some good, some reverse, and some both.. Hmmm gettign there I feel. Have tried all settings though and cant seem to get as lucky as RageDemon. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I a problem with my 3d dvd and benQ projector using Power DVD and Force Weave on. I have tried all refresh rates and resolutions still no luck. Does anyone have a direct fix for this? I am also using the ed activator interleaved and page flipping both do not work. | ||
| Peter Wimmer Rating: N/A |
To 99.9% of all projectors, the following answer applies: 3D never works. The remaining 0.1% are CRT projectors (very rare nowadays) and some DLP which work in pageflipping mode at 60 Hz. Solution 1: Use two DLP projectors and build a passive stereo projection system using polarizers and a silver screen. Solution 2: Use anaglyphs. Stereoscopic Player can convert your DVDs on-the-fly to anaglyph (http://mitglied.lycos.de/stereo3d). It also supports the passive setup described above. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Peter the anaglyph conversion works great! How can I adjust the depth? | ||
| Peter Wimmer Rating: N/A |
The bad news is that Stereoscopic Player currently doesn't support parallax adjustments to move the szene into or out of the screen. The good news is I've already implemented this feature and the next version will support it. To avoid misunderstands: Adjusting the amount of "depth" (stereo base) is not possible with videos. The stereo base was choosen by the camera man during recoding and cannot be changed during playback (in opposite to DirectX or OpenGL games using a stereo driver, which generates left and right image dynamically). | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Peter great news! When will the next version be released? | ||
| Peter Wimmer Rating: N/A |
Within the next weeks. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Peter how is the next version coming? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Tried edims newest driver with a disabled Nvidia Stereo driver with my dlp projector set up. Horrible. Didn't work properly on all settings. Real shame. This is not to say that people with other cards than Nvidia would not have a different experience. But for a: 6800, Win XP, Nvidia Stereo driver disabled Output a DLP projector at 800*600 or 1024 Native 60Hz set for either LCD1, LCD2 or CRT. Driver settings tested interlaced, normal/reveresed, page flip Doesn't work Nvidia stereo drivers work very well for 1024 native (cropped screen) and 800*600 some blue ghosting (minimal) Thought you guys should know. Will get round to firmware flashing as soon as I can dig out my old 19inch monitor. By the way using the glasses from the monitor out post of the x1 as opposed to between the PC and and the X1 doesn't work... Sorry if you've read this before but not everyone reads every thread and this took out a whole evening so it could save someone that time by not having to bother... Unclebob | ||
| djlins Rating: N/A |
Just thought I would let you know. After extensive playing around with PowerStrip I Was actually getting somewhere, I could get the phasing to a 2 minute cycle. However, sod that now because, As luck would have it my 3200MP shafted on me a little while back (Although it didnt seem lucky at the time). But I have now got a 3300MP as a replacement, and I have to say, it is absolutely awesome. I plugged it in, and it all just worked first time. The image was reversed, so I have to wear the glasses upside down, but looking out across the island on far cry on a 10 foot, by 5 foot screen and I can see exactly why I went thru all this to get it working.. fantbloomintastic ) happy christmas all heheh. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
djlins You can use the H3D activator to reverse the glasses, tried with edims activator but that does not like Nvidia drivers... or Maplin do a signal reversing jack for stereo swaps left speaker sound with right and that works for glasses as well. Could you post your settings so other people can copy or 'have a go'... Card, Opsystem, Driver set, Resolution, Refresh Rate, flicker issue, brightness issue, ghosting, games used? Thanks Unclebob | ||
| DJLins Rating: N/A |
Hiya, I have been in touch with edimensional and they said they hadnt perfected the reverse hotkey for the glasses but are now acknowledging the projector people, and are going to put it in properly for the next update in the next few weeks. So I'll leave the H3D activator and hope the hotkey reverse does it in the next release. I can live with having them upside down till then. My nvidia card at the moment locks a black screen on the test screen when I press SHIFT R / CTRL F7 (What is supposed to be the current reverse hotkeys for OpenGL / DirectX) so I think this is what they are sorting out properly. Anyways.. about my current spec: PC = Shuttle FX41 on an XK41G motherboard with AMD 1.67GHz processor and 1 Gig Ram. Graphix Card = Gainward (nvidia) fx5700 ultra (256MB ram) Projector = Dell 3300MP using PC VGA output to M1-DA Projector input Running at 800x600 and 60Hz for all games. NVidia drivers (stereo and normal = 61.77) Op sys = Win2000 Pro GAMES: Far Cry = On low water quality it is excellent, otherwise the water effects traces horizontally too far across the screen if there are reflections on it. Save the water effects for the flat 3D game. I did notice flicker on the whiter parts (fences close up etc) but I am now new to this and think I can correct this with gamma settings, I'll let you know. Rollercoaster tycoon 3 = WOW - this is the game this set up was made for, its like old Cine 180 only better. design a rollercoaster and then try and ride it without swaying / falling over ) The 3D has trouble placing the lamps and sun / moon (they jump, but that is all) also the terrain sometimes blacks out flat bits which can distort so you have to fill all the ground in with something, dont leave it to normal grass or unbumped. Doom 3 = Good effects, especially with the lighting, very scary although the darkness with the added darkness of a shutter glass can sometimes make it hard to make out dark room detail, but again I think I can correct this with brightness. half life 2 = very very good. although I have only played the very start of it. Spiderman 2 = excellent game for climbing high and jumping off and sailing towards the ground before swinging along manhattan. again made for these glasses, it can get you swaying in your chair ) Need for speed 2 underground = just got it.. will let you know soon ) but I have a feeling it is going to be quite satisfying having already played the flat 3D version on consoles. and I have also just got microsoft flight simulator 2004 which is the real reason I wanted this set up to work so I'll let you know how that goes as well. I think I prefer the driving / flying ones to the point and shoot ones because flat 3D is easier to position your cross hair first time and you would lose out on online games like battlefield / Counter strike etc. Umm I havent noticed any ghosting with these, the 3300MP projector is brighter than the 3200MP (1500 Lumens) with an even better contrast ratio (1700:1) so I dont think that is going to be an issue. It is native at XGA (1024x768) so maybe putting my games into that rather than 800x600 could solve the flicker on bright white objects but who knows, when I am bored with playing, I'll have a look at setting it all up better. Good luck to all others trying it. Its worth getting. DJLins. | ||
| djlins Rating: N/A |
Just to update on the reverse eye stuff going on which I mentioned above. The topic isn't dead, as I have been in talks with Nathan again at edimensional who said that recently they had come up with something to try out. This might work for other people's set ups so it may be worth some of you getting in touch with them for the fix. I was sent a registry edit called regreverse.reg which should of then put up an option in the "stereo settings" tab in nvidia settings called "Mini din 3" It turned out that I couldnt see that option and so was told to select the "Direct 3-Pin DIN VESA Connect" option instead and that should of reversed the eyes for me. What actually happened with my projector was the image still flickered but the transmittor to the wireless glasses wasnt telling them to flicker. I did check that they were turned on by making sure the old setting still worked with reverse 3D ;O) I have reported this back to Nathan and hopefully should get a reply soon as to if they have addressed this, or if I am missing doing something. I'm not technical enough to really know what "Direct 3-Pin DIN VESA Connect" really means, but I am happy to keep testing out for them until I can finally wear my glasses the right way round (They keep falling off when I get over excited on that new flatout game heheh). Anyway, like I say it might work for some of you other people so if it does, could you please let me know exactly what you did to get the glasses working again. Its nice to know there is still hope anyway, one day.... Cheers, DJLins. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Its in edimensionals the ususal downloads folder if people are interested. 27k download expands to 300k. Seems to be a rewrite of the Nvidia settings with the stereo reverse values for each game... Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
DJLins did edim say delete the orginal key: [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\NVIDIA corporation\Global\Stereo3D] first? If you just merged it you may have two keys for the same function which is why the setup they described didn't work. I'll give it a go over the next couple of days. Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I finally got a chance to check out your web page, and I must say that I'm impressed. Hope everything is going well. Take care! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
This is great, look forward to looking into every area. Thanks for being there. | ||
| ajax501 Rating: N/A |
Today the same parallax inversion, aka "stereo inversion," problem still occurs with the 3D glasses with projectors (or "beamers" as they are called in Europe). I got sick of wearing my glasses upside down so I designed a stereo projection converter to fix the problem. Made a small production run at my company if anyone is interested. The little converter fits on the dongle and does a good job. http://3DFlightSim.com |
