| Author | Message | ||
     Ray Price Rating: N/A |
Is there any hardware available that will convert a page flipped output such as from the NVidia to individual VGA outputs? Regards Ray | ||
| Andreas Schulz Rating: N/A |
Find an overview here at: http://www.stereo3d.com/vidrec.htm In the news sections, see e.g. http://www.cyviz.com/products.html (note the last line on that page !) http://www.stereo3d.com/img/3DBroProducts.PDF (NTSC/PAL TV) http://www.stereo3d.com/news/news0063.html (just a lurker, don't ask me for hands-on experience...) | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Ray: When you produce the HW page flipped output by OpenGl on nVida card, you can simply get 2 signals from dual output card. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Mr M.H., using your software to play a very large side-by-side video clip (1600 x 600) can I get 2 800 x 600 video streams @ 25 fps? Thank you! | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Anonymous: For curenlty existing speed of procesor NO for standard compression algoritms (mpeg2, mpeg, DIVIX). The image manipulation routines nessesry for stereo slow down the playback by a factor of 2 in comparison to 2D playback. For stereoscopic playback in full resolution you need to double the source movie reolution as you show. It makes together slow down by a factor of 4. For a movie in 800x600 res. and some good compression algoritm you need al least 500 Mhz P II. It means that for your needs a 2G Hz procesor is aproximately nessesry. I am intensively working on improving the speed of stereoscopic manipulation aggoritms (by the help of both D3D and openGl HW acclerated functions) but it can not lead to some drastical speed changes. I have got experimentaly 25 fps for 1280x480 movie on 1.5 GHz P III using partialy hw futers of a GeForce 3 (DIVIX compression). Another limiting factor will be the data flow from your HW witch culd be critical. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Thank you. As far as I have understood that means that using your player and a 2G P4 processor (with SCSI HD) I can get a 640 x 480 @ 25 fps. But where can I find a dual-head GeForce 3? Any other graphic board will do this? Any better compression alghoritm than DIVX for this? Thanks. | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
Many thank Michal, the NVidia does indeed support seperate left/right image output on dual head cards by setting the twinview mode to clone and the refresh rate to 60hz. This works in direct3d too, as I have tested it with FS2002 and it works great. Many Thanks All! | ||
| Maart Rating: N/A |
"NVidia does indeed support seperate left/right image output on dual head cards by setting the twinview mode to clone and the refresh rate to 60hz." I've tried this but i get 3d page flipping on one monitor and 2d on the other how did you get this to work | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
Try changing the refresh rate. Mine was trying to flip to start with, I think you may need to play with the refresh rate to get it to work. You can see if it is working before launching an application by using the stereo test button. Ray | ||
| M.H. Rating: N/A |
Ray Prace: The GeForce 3 is not the key. The key is the power of the CPU witch limits the most critical step - image decompression. Another critical step is the decompresed image transfer from standard memory into graphic card memory (made again by CPU and not by the GPU). I have got almost identical results with Ge Force MMX and GeForce 3 (the HW texture manipualtion done in the HW of this card is not the time-critical step) for stereo video playback. According DIVIX - the problem is that this algoritm i GOOD. GOOD = very clever = a lot of CPU power nessesery for thinking. By the help of totaly stupid algoritms (simple YUV 4:1:1 quantization) you will get big files but beter playback speed. Search for Paul Bourke WWW for details. They are able to work in resolutin with you suggest but with extremly big files. Mpeg2 and pure mpeg1 gives better speed than DIVIX as well (mpeg1 standard is defined up to 4000x4000 res) .... | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
MH, I think we are getting our wires crossed here. I am talking about gaming with Direct3D, not playing 3D movies. Regards Ray | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
Ray, If this works, it's quite a breaktrhough in the field of stereo projection (for animations, games, sims etc).But I tried the dual head nvidia trick you mention without success. Both on win98 and win2k. In both cases, I used directx8.1, Nvidia 23.11 driver and 23.11 stereo driver. It's the same PC with two OS'es - it's a PIII 733 MHz with an Asus AGP V7100 2V1D graphics card (TwinView, GeForce 2 MX). The problem was the same, page flipping on each output. I set both the refresh frequency in Nvidia's "stereo setup and test" as well as in the "monitor" tab to 60 Hz. TwinView Clone mode was ON. Funny thing: in win98, when trying to activate stereo, I had an error message saying: "TwinView is enabled and currently set to clone mode, please disable clone mode in order to run stereo". Some times I was able to activate stereo nonetheless. I didn't get this error in Win2k. Can you think of anything you've done differently? Have you used Geforce Tweak Utility or RivaTuner? You mention changing the refresh rate. But shouln't it be 60 Hz? And where should it be changed? In Nvidia's "stereo setup and test" or in the windows "monitor" refresh rate settings? And, btw, how come you - being the only person able to get this great setup working - ask for a piece of hardware to do the trick? Us others have been in search for software doing it for a couple of years now, with the purpose of avoiding hardware. Alex | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
I have version 27.20 nvidia drivers which uses the view nview as opposed to twinview functionality. This may be the difference. I got them from http://www.guru3d.com. I only changed the refresh rate on the stereo drivers property page. Ray | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
BTW, I was asking for the hardware before I tried this. I will not be asking for it again ;) | ||
| Maart Rating: N/A |
I've got it working too now, refresh rate has to be 60. and only direct3d seems to work but it's looking good. except sometimes the right and left images swap sometimes. but it looks like this only happens in 640x480 and not at 1024x768 but I will test more. my system: leadek geforce2 mx dualhead (patched to quadro2) 27.20 detonator drivers i've tested it with unreal tournament and it worked but very slow, than I task-switched to my desktop and back to unreal tournament. now it was working smooth. does anyone else has this problem with the nvidia drivers and some games? anyway Great work Ray! Maart | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
I notice the 27.42 drivers are now on guru3d, maybe these are worth a try? I am thinking now that is this is working it could be time to think about a dual-head Geforce4 to give the extra performance. There seem to be no Geforce4 with two VGA ports, but I wonder if the VGA/DVI output can be used in dual head mode using a DVI to VGA converter. Anyone have a GeForce4 to test this on? Ray | ||
| Andreas Petersik Rating: N/A |
For those who have not succeeded with dual stereo output yet: You must enable TwinView (or NView) Clone mode AND: 1. When using a Quadro board (Softquadro does not work!) you get the button ADDITIONAL OPENGL PROPERTIES on the OpenGL settings page. Click on it and you can select which mode you want to use for OpenGL stereo. YOU MUST SELECT: TwinView/NView Clone instead of Shutterglasses!!!! Refreshrate is not important, only when connecting a projector! 2. With a Geforce board or a Softquadro-patched Geforce board, you must use RivaTuner. There you have to change in the OpenGL Settings->Professional from Enable Stereo -> via shutterglasses to -> via TwinView Clone mode!! BTW: I have tested with professional OpenGL stereo applications only! http://www.stereofoto.de | ||
| Giorgio Bogoni Rating: N/A |
Great! Does anyone know if it can be used to display hi-res (2048x768) video clips on a Ge-Force dual-head card? What software can be used to display the side-by-side video clip in page-flipping mode and then enable this feature to have it displayed on two monitors? I think this feature can override the slow-down and compatibility issue of the standard "extended desktop" display for side-by-side movies. THX, Giorgio. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Giorgio: You do not have to use any special software. This problem was discused several times on this board. To create stereoscopic video output for 2 conector simply ecode the movie in left/right format, play it double full screen (the result will show left half on one monitor and right half on the second). Any other method will be not more faster or stable. In adition, for the resolution witch you give the power of existing CPU is not sufficent in any case .. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Petersik: SoftQuadro works just fine with twinview clone and stereo in the 21.81 driver, but not in the older drivers, exactly the same as real Quadro boards. Bogoni: No, it won't work, far too slow. Reason is that you take a HUGE movie, pageflip it, then go back again to twinview, instead of playing it in twinview in the first place. Use the twinview clone mode (in the nvidia driver panel, not windows panel) with the latest 27.xx drivers. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Another way to NON pageflipped stereo with the nvidia drivers is to use the old 2181 driver with the new stereo 2311 driver, if you use clone mode you'll get left/right images, if you use one screen you get the same squashed on one screen. Yet another way is to crash Direct3D first (for example running 2 different direct3d apps/games at once) then go back to windows and run your stereo app that now can't goto pageflipped mode. Tested on 2K/XP only. The 60Hz truck mentioned by Ray might be better to use, just offering you more options. | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
Ray's trick works for me, too. In windows 2000, with and ASUS Geforce2MX (2V1D)graphics card. Great, because the native refresh for DLP projectors (at least the ones I work with) is 60 Hz. I use the 28.32 driver (and the 28.32 driver from Gainward's FTP site). Only tried the Nvidia stereo setup and test function yet, but I'll try some other applications. Alex | ||
| Maart Rating: N/A |
Alexander, do you have OpenGL working also? I only got direct3D working in "splitted mode" Maart | ||
| Alexander Oest Rating: N/A |
Sorry for the delay. Can't get OpenGL to work either. But there's quite a number of settings that might help. I'll give it another chance. Alex | ||
| Steven Mason Rating: N/A |
Ray, I have purchased a Creative Blaster 4 3D Titanium 4600 which has 128Mb 650 MHz DDR AGP with one VGA and one DVI output, and I've got the VGA to DVI converter. I have loaded the 27.20 Detonator driver and the most recent nVidia stereo driver but when I have the clone and 60Hz chosen I get both screens giving me page flipped as opposed to left on one screen and right on the other. Any suggestions as to which stereo driver is working for you guys who have it up and running. | ||
| Jim Rating: N/A |
How about newer Geforce FX cards? Anyone tried 3d stereo projection with a Geforce FX card? I have the NVIDIA 45.23 drivers and the corresponding stereo3d drivers, and I can't find any "clone mode" option. Has this functionality been removed? It seems only sensible that NVIDIA would make dual display stereo inherent in their driver releases. Why should a 3d projection solution require 3rd party (i.e. more3d) software which seems to cost a fortune? If downgrading to legacy drivers is a solution, can someone let me know what drivers, and where to get them? I certainly would appreciate any help that I can get on what I need to do to split the stereoscopic view to each of my two dual head outputs (without buying expensive software or a demultiplexer). Jim | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
I have also had success with sending each view to a different monitor with every Direct-X game I've tried so far with the exception of the first Unreal Tournament. No OpenGL games yet. I'm convinced the only way to do this is with SoftQuadro which I haven't tried yet. Although I know Christoph (Kudos, I'm so glad I found this site and got hooked on this hobby!) is a big advocate of projectors, I'm enjoying a great stereo experience with NO GHOSTING using the above technique, an extra monitor and a mirrored stereoscope. I'm convinced this is the best and cheapest method of personal stereo until good consumer HMD's appear. Christoph's projectors are still the best for larger audiences. Here is what I did: 1. Found and purchased a Geforce ti4600 with a VGA and DVI-I output (I don't know about the GFX). Make extra sure it has the -I on the end of the DVI unless you have a monitor that accepts a purely digital signal. I also bought a DVI-I to VGA adapter. 2. Hooked identically sized monitors to the card and put them side by side on my desk as close as possible both angled to face me. If the monitors are CRT's you may want to put a grounded sheet of metal between them so they can't distort each other. 3. Loaded 28.32 Detonators from Guru3D and 30.87 Stereo Drivers. I enabled Nview clone mode and set Stereo refresh and refesh rate of both monitors to be the same before stereo is enabled. I use 60Hz but 100Hz has worked also. Be extra sure both monitors are really using the same refresh rate. At times all the Windows settings say they are, but the status on monitor menu itself would prove otherwise. After getting this all correct, I could get seperate views on each monitor. By the way, I'm using Win98SE but I hear WinXP works too. 4. Built a mirrored stereoscope using first-surface mirrors. It is very important to use first-surface mirrors because normal mirrors will cause a noticeable doubling of the image when viewed at an angle. My stereoscope hangs from a hat brim and has a soft pad so it can rest on the brige of my nose between the two inner mirrors. I bought the 3D Brigadier from this site: www.3dquarium.com/viewer.html and then replaced the mirrors with larger first surface ones. As you can see in the picture, the 4 mirrors are in this configuration: \ v / which will cause each monitors' image to be flipped twice. The stereoscope will effectively cross your eyes for you so each eye can look at the center of each corresponding monitor's view. If you're confused, just search Google to read more about mirrored stereoscopes. For two 17" monitors, the outer mirrors should be 3x5" and the inners should be about 2x3". Each inner and outer mirror is spaced about 3.5" apart. 5. Finally I don the very nerdy but effective stereoscope hat, enable side-by-side stereo in my game, and rotate my outer mirrors and align my head to superimpose the two views so it looks like I'm viewing a single monitor. Then I enjoy stereo gaming with bright colors, high-contrast, zero choppiness, and NO GHOSTING. I've been running all my games in 1152x864 with no lag. It is a bit more difficult to adjust the stereo settings with no ghost images as a guide! But that's a good problem to have! This method may cost just a bit more than shutter-glasses (I started with the Eye3D Premium which was OK but I was a bit disappointed) due to buying an extra identical monitor, but having a second monitor for your desktop is cool anyways. Feel free to email me if you have questions but please do some research first. I hope others that were disappointed with shutterglasses will give my method a try and renew thier interest in this hobby. I too am hoping for an increase in this hobby's popularity and the release of a crisp consumer 1024x768 or better HMD with perfect headtracking! | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
Have you tried this on the latest driver versions? From what I can make out this is a 'bug' on older drivers versions, would you agree? Thanks | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
Someday I intend to work my way up the driver versions to see what later Detonators will work also. But, yes, I agree that it's a bug. Nvidia probably can't include it in their product as a feature because More3D probably owns the patent or something. Just once when I got this to work in the Stereo Test I got a message saying I had something messed up in my settings (probably clone mode being on) and it was using some other unlisted stereo mode that it warned might be a little poorer in performance. How I wish I copied the exact text of that "error"! Then maybe someone who loves hacking could go deeper into the drivers and figure out exactly why this works and maybe how we can get it to work even better for more drivers. Sigh. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
More3D use technology stolen from Elsa after Elsa crash (it is a group of former Elsa developers). I doubt they have patents for anything. I thing that for nVidia it will be trivial to do the More3D stuff in software , they already support this under OpenGL ... | ||
| StereoGamer Rating: N/A |
Forget all this and see the recent "Dual Head Stereo with Nvidia 3D stereo" post for a clean solution. Cheers | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
check this out! |
