| Author | Message | ||
     amigo Rating: N/A |
Finally we see some movement and it comes in the form of a CES 2004 showing by Leadtek: the first OLED based HMD in 800x600 resolution, utilizing eMagin's OLED display. http://optics.org/articles/news/10/1/4/1 "Leadtek says that the binocular version of the X-eye can provide true 3D stereovision imaging when used with specially-designed computer software that provides frame-sequential 3D." http://www.leadtek.com.tw/hmd/x_eye_1.shtml http://www.leadtek.com.tw/hmd/x_eye_2.shtml | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
This is no difference than the i-glasses or the cy-visor, except in the area of weight. Very disappointing indeed for waiting this long. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I hear the display quality of OLED is far superior though? | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
I think that even though this is not the breakthrough product we have all been waiting for, that it is great that a well-known company like Leadtek is taking a bold move trying to introduce this product into the consumer market. Maybe if it sells well it will pave the way for better products and lower cost in the future. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Atleast hmd's are getting cheaper... I'm pretty impressed at the size of it. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
how much is it going to cost? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
According to my calculations, the X-eye has got a considerably larger FOV than both the I-glasses SVGA 3D and the Cy-visor. I-glasses SVGA 3D got a screensize of 76 inch at 13 feet(3,9 meters). That makes 19,5 inch at 1 meter. FOV is 26 according to it´s website: http://www.i-glassesstore.com/iglassessvga3dhphones.html The Cy-visor 3D(DH-4400VP) got a screensize of 44 inch at 2 meters. That makes 22 inch at 1 meter. FOV is 31 according to it´s website: http://www.personaldisplay.com/english/f_whatis.html The X-eye(Leadteks new HMD) got a screensize of 50 inch at 6 feet(1,8 meter). That makes 28 inch at 1 meter. FOV is 32 according to it´s website: http://www.leadtek.com.tw/hmd/x_eye_2.shtml X-eyes 28 inch at 1 meter is over 27% more than Cy-visors 22 inch at 1 meter, yet the difference in FOV according to the respective websites is only 1 degree. This can not be. The right FOV of the X-eye should therefore be 39. Now, it´s not the first time different corporations makes different estimates of screensize in relation to FOV. Vrealities for instance, says the I-glasses SVGA 3D got 29 in FOV, while i-glassesstore says it got 26 in FOV. One conclusion is that Leadtek makes a different estimate of the relationship between screensize and FOV than the one for instance Daeyang (Cy-visor) or the makers of i-glasses does. Please correct me if I did a miscalculation or some other error. Correct information is in the interest of us all. Lars Ahnland, 3D-gamer and journalist | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
The OLED microdisplay from Emagin, the one Leadtek is using, is also larger than the LCD microdisplay used in Cy-visor. The OLED microdisplay is 15 mm (0.59") image diagonal (se http://www.emagin.com/svga3d.htm ), while the LCD microdisplay is 0,49" (se http://www.personaldisplay.com/english/f_whatis.html ). Lars Ahnland | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Lars, Yes, their calculation is wrong. Should be just a bit shine of 40 degrees. Again, this is due to the chip itself is bigger, not better lens. The problem here is still resolution. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Another note. When are those commercial HMDs going to reach 1600x1200? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Nvisor SX got a resolution of 1280x1024 and a Field of View of 60. The model is from the beginning of 2003 and costs $23.900 (!!!). So I think X-eye is about as good as it gets when it comes to affordable private consumer HMD´s, at least for a forseeable future. Lars Ahnland | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Anyone knows what the 60Hz refresh rate of the X-eye implies? Is that like 60Hz with shutterglasses? In that case, it´s too flickery. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
again, what's the MSRP for this? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Is frame-sequencial the same as page-flipping? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
OLED doesn't have the flicker a CRT does. It's closer to the waves of a LCD. | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
Yes, frame sequential is the same as page flipping. 60Hz does not imply that it will be flickery like shutterglasses, since it will have a seperate display for each eye. I spoke to LeakTek in Taiwan and they say this product should be available first in the US, and that it will be sometime around April after a March production run. They could not comment yet on a street price. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I spoke with Daeyang and they say their new OLED HMD will be out december, possibly Q1 2005 The FOV of their new HMD will be 51. Thought you´d like to know. Lars Ahnland | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
And by the way, the specs of Leadteks new HMD says the FOV is 32 degrees HORIZONTAL, not diagonal. My mistake. Lars Ahnland | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Daeyang's HMD 51, I am wait for something has at least 90 degree fov (horizontal) | ||
| Lars Ahnland Rating: N/A |
BOPray, you will have to wait a decade at least until that sort of technology is available I fear. And by the way, 90 FOV will probably cause nausea. See this: http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/hu/groups/viserg/9604all.htm | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Why do you think that a large field of view increases the danger of nausea? The link you are refering to does not say so. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Lars, Your eyes gives you 180 degrees of FOV, way more than 90. Do you have nausea all the time? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
BOPrey, Excellent reply about FOV. Your eyes give you closer to 210 degrees FOV. | ||
| Lars Ahnland Rating: N/A |
BOPray, I too wish that a high FOV would not cause nausea. Unfortunately so, it does. It´s a scientifical fact. It got something to do with the eyes, the brain and the body don´t register the same information when it comes to movement and vision. It is similar to motionsickness (in VR it is sometime called Doom-sickness) It´s complicated stuff I don´t remember exactly how it works, but I´ll soon try to get a better link than the last one. Try to search the Internet first for your self. I hate to disappoint you: as I said I too would like 180 or 210 FOV in a HMD. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Lars, I do know about motion sickness as I myself have done a few papers on it. But for God sake, what does that have to with the FOV of a HMD. It has every thing to do with the whole setup, including motion platform, head tracking, controling software, and environment simulation software. HMD is just one very small part in a VR environment. Yet, small, but the second most important componmont if not the most. Also, some VR applications (e.g. flight simulation, auto racing) do not require the subject's body to move at all. | ||
| Lars Ahnland Rating: N/A |
I´m aware that there are several factors involved in this VR simulator sickness. These are among the most important ones: "sense of motion is required bright images are more likely to cause it than dark ones wide field of view is more likely to cause it than narrow field of view HMDs are more likely to cause it than projection systems low resolution, low frame rate and high latency are also likely causes" From: http://www.evl.uic.edu/aej/590/lecture05.html Here is an other: "Increasing levels of immersion require more sophisticated input/output devices. These include wide-field stereoscopic head-mounted displays (HMDs) for audio and visual stimuli, with modification of video and audio stimuli in accordance with patient movement, to simulate scene changes with head and body movement. These higher levels of immersion may produce cybersickness in susceptible individuals." From: http://www.emedicine.com/neuro/topic463.htm And here is a third source: http://www.cybertherapy.info/pages/hfact.htm#disorien Fortunately, because there are several factors contributing to the simulation sickness maybe it´s possible to eliminate most of them. Maybe FOV will not be that big of a problem then? I don´t know, I´m not a scientist. I want the facts and am not interested in turning this into a "I know best-thing". | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Not that many HMDs have a very large FOV. One thing I know is, flight simulator currently is about 15% of USAF pilot training. They currently use dome style projection systems. However, they want to move the share of simulator training to 25%-40% with high res and large FOV HMDs. At this moment, only the US Army is using HMD simulator with stationary platform, and the air force is interested in that platform because it creates a lot more immersive environment and saves a lot of space. This is not a 'I know best-thing' debate. As for gamming, I want a HMD that has a large FOV. | ||
| Lars Ahnland Rating: N/A |
Fair enough. However, whether a 90 FOV HMD causes nausea or not, I am too impatient to wait for it. Considdering the price of the Nvisor SX, I think we have to wait many, many, years until we see that kind of HMD in the private consumer price range. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Who cares about people who get cyber-sickness.. I'd tell my brain to quit complaining, even if it gave me cancer... i to agree that 90degree FOV is of true vr standard... I think sony or whoever should design optics specifically made for HMD's. Sony and scei are spending US$1.6 billion on its' new cell processor fabrication plant, so i don't see why they havn't taken a big interest in vr. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I'm wondering why they don't build a DVI Version? Anyway I want to have 1024x768 to use this not as a 3d display but as a wearable 2d monitor. The power consumption looks promising low. This should increase the battery mark of my notebook since the tft display consumes about 1/3 of the whole power Greetings from Berlin TOM | ||
| Steve Rating: N/A |
Prices of high-end systems wont necessarily go down in the future. You will probably increases in display resolution much more quickly than you will see increases in field of view, simply because the optics involved are not likely to go down in price. To have a very large field of view, you need larger lenses as a general rule, or you will see clipping of the image. This is especially true if you want to accommodate eye glasses, as you have to have a much larger eye-relief. Steve NVIS Inc. | ||
| steve Rating: N/A |
I meant to say "probably see increases..." | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Not to mention the weight of the large lens, and they are all about 6-10 inches from the center of support. A very un-comfortable setup I should say. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Does that apply to oled aswell steve?? | ||
| Steve Rating: N/A |
Yes, It would apply to oleds as well, at least for the size of the lens through which you are seeing. Though because it is emissive, you don't need some optical components that you would need with other types of microdisplays in the rest of the system. Steve NVIS Inc. | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
How easy would it be to make the FOV larger on something like the X-Eye? Are the appropriate lenses available for purchase seperately? What sort of lense would you need for this if you didn't need to accomodate for eyeglasses? Regards | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Guys, when's the release date for these glasses? And nobody answered what the price was going to be? Mike | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Mike, If you would read the entire post, you would see that we dont know the price yet and the release data is sometime in the March/April time frame. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
See the thred: "Steve at IIS: Should we wait for the X-viewer or buy the X-eye?" for an answer on the price question (Steve Glaser asked his competitors at Leadtek about the price of the X-eye). | ||
| json20 Rating: N/A |
The X-Viewer. What kind of display will be used, LCOS,LCD or OLED? Aren't there advantages regarding less eye strain and fatigue by using OLED technology. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Just to throw a little wrench in this conversation retinal scanning displays will answer all those concerns, FOV is not a problem, no lenses to deal w/, resolution is only limited by the speed of the scanning mechanism, and just in case high FOV does cause nausea, that should be much less likely because retinal scanning produces a TRUE 3d image, each individual pixel can have it's own focus. Just my 2 cents on the future of HMDs, flame away :P | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
And what state is "Consumer Retinal Scanning Display" in? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Well, that's a whole other conversation. The technology is ready to go. It is in fact cheaper to manufacture than typical personal display technologies, problem is that no one has picked it up. It think that there is a certain level of industry anxiety about picking up the technology over traditional screen based displays. The major hurdles then are convincing the HMD manufacturers that they can convince the consumer that a laser beamed onto the eye won't hurt them (technically it's just low intensity light...safer than your traditional crt display, but moving on...) :P Currently the only company I am aware of that is working w/ the technology is microvision. http://www.mvis.com They just want to make the displays and are currently looking for partners to develop consumer applications. They currently have one unit for commercial application, the nomad expert which is designed for simple monochrome augmented reality applications. However, they also have a demonstration unit which is full color, resolution, etc...the nomad spectrum. It's an emerging technology, but the future of personal displays. I would wager another five years before you see consumer display applications. However, when they do show up, the price and performance will be right... | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
I agree. Micro-electromachenicle scaners are a lot lot cheaper and easier to make. One problem though, consumers aren't that comfortable with their eyes constantly scaned by a laser beam. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Yup, you can only hope that for 120 degree fov and 1600x1200 resolution or better that consumers will take the leap of faith. | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
I think hardcore gamers would definitely be prepared to take a leap for that kind of FOV. And that is a pretty big market in itself. Maybe these guys should team up with someone like NVidia or Alienware. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I agree, but it just takes a while to get new technologies to market. LEP is ready to roll, but has anyone seen one at best buy yet? No, because they still haven't got the life out of plasma screens yet. It's all kind of a conspiracy. They don't introduce the new technologies until the old ones are used up. Plus they're waiting for a little breakthrough w/ retinal scanning displays. Currently they are driven by a commercially available vertical scanner, they're a little larger than desirable and kind of expensive. They are currently working on a mems scanner at the HITL at Washington U where the VRD was developed which will reduce the size and cost of hmd's. In fact once they're ready it'd be like wearing a pair of sun glasses. :D | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I figure you got about 10 more years before you see a rentinal scanning display system that is the size of a pair of sun glasses. |
