| Author | Message | ||
     Mac333 Rating: N/A |
Thenxs 2 mm11 Quoted from other site. Posted May 30, 2005, 9:34 PM ET by mm11 I attended E3. I spent about 45 minutes playing with the Z800. I tried my best to make myself sick. But I could not. I thought it was comfortable and once you got used to how to center the headtracker and use the joystick controls it was awesome. I wish I had more time to use it and did not want to take it off. I did also wish I could have played a few more games with it. Here are some pictures and videos I took at E3. h++p://hosting.imageevent.com/emagin/e3videos h++p://hosting.imageevent.com/emagin/z800pictures h++p://hosting.imageevent.com/emagin/quantum3d h++p://hosting.imageevent.com/emagin/emagintshirt h++p://hosting.imageevent.com/emagin/e3emagin | ||
| Anonymous Rating: |
So what's the percieved field of view like? Compared to your own gaming monitor? What was the stereo like? Were you impressed by it? $899 impressed? Thanks for posting your experience aswell! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
The emagin site states that you must have a "frame sequential 3D stereovision" video card to play. Can someone tell me in plain language what card i need to buy for this thing to work ? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
2 answear yr question go to post 49 on this site. http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000873043851/ | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I'm planning on buying one of these, but am holding off until I find some things out. Mac333 did you find it a problem having such a large gap between the eye piece and your eye? is there anyway of adjusting it to bring it closer? Having this gap would surely reduce the submersive effect as it would reduce the FOV. What game(s) did you play? Thanks for the pics, wish I could have gone there myself! -Ben | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Guys I was up for getting one of these but have decided to wait until some reliable reviews come out on some of the hardware review sites. I find it odd that they have not contacted Chris (who runs this site) with a view to him reviewing their kit. After all this is one of only a handful of sites across the net with any real information or community and as such has a ready made enthusiast audience and customer base. They could of course just be poor at promoting it. Easy money for them if they did that and "it does what it says on the can"... Unclebob | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
105' screen at 12 feet away. FOV is lest than 40 degree diagonal. Much more like looking at a 17' screen at 2 feet. No thanks, not buying. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
BOPrey, compare it to the i-glasses 70" at 13'. The Z800 3D is revolutionary compared to what exists on the market today. I´m buying. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Seems to me people complained about low resolution and low fov in head worn devices forever. A product comes along offering vastly improved functionality on both fronts. Others complain that any acceptable level system, and one with head track capability costs well into the thousands of dollars. This one goes for 900 bucks.Look - it's far from ideal I guess in many respects. FOV would ideally be better - resolution too. Sure 300 bucks would be nice too. But it's a giant step in the right direction to me , and worth the money I think. But like anything else there are those who will buy it and those who won't. This will be true of this product and the ones that come out next year and the year after that. -j | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I'd buy, but there needs to be a review from someone I trust before I drop $1200 (which is what it would cost in the Uk after taxes). This would be regardless of the feature list because if Chris here said it was good or BOPrey or one of the other 'old hands' then we'd be pretty sure that it "does what it says on the can". Incidently, 800*600 works fine for my X1 which does give a 100+inch screen at 12ft. I could not go back to a 19inch monitor regardless of the resolution offered. But that is my preference... BOPrey makes a good point though as this is an acknowledged problem with all HMDs which has been scientifically reseached before. This after all is not the first HMD in the world and most of the people here are not inexperienced in these matters. Hence the need for a review, written specs are one thing using it and experiencing it is another. Unclebob | ||
| ihate56k Rating: N/A |
People seem to be expecting so much of this device. I can't believe people are expecting 720p+ resolutions at the price of an mid sized TFT. I've got an X1 right now, the ghosting is minimal, the screen is big, and the flicker isn't too bad, but even so, I'll take a reduction in screen size any day for the absolute zero ghosting a HMD can offer. and that's before we've discussed head tracking! let's be realistic guys, for $1200 you're not going to get a virtual imax, are you? by the way, does anyone know of a UK supplier, for example, will imago3d.co.uk be selling them? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
This will probably be one of the best consumer level HMD's released to date. There will always be complainers. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
i will probably buy one, but reading a review by someone who's had it for a few days and has used hmd's before would be great.. has stereo3d asked for a review unit?? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I have heard that this type of display technolgy is bad. The image will tear when the scene changes in the hmd. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
vresources has an analysis of the z800 compared to other hmds. http://vresources.jump-gate.com/articles/vre_articles/analyhmd/analysis.htm | ||
| Duane Rating: N/A |
I found this review on another website.... http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/15924?from=30&comments_per_page=30 eMAGIN Z800 3D Visor - This piece of hardware was tucked away in Kenita hall, and I wouldn't have given it a second glance if not for forum user griffon. I want to thank griffon for asking, because these things blew me away. Remember all that "Virtual Reality" bullshit that went about in the mid-ninties? Yeah the 20 pound headsets that displayed 300x100 and had maybea 5hz refresh rate, that hurt you eyes just thinking about it? This is not that. The headset was so light and comfortable I didn't even notice it until I was thinking about it later. I had it on for 10 minutes or so and it felt entirely natural and put no strain on my neck at all, like a pair of normal glasses. The motion tracking of the head was also very impressive, after maybe 30 seconds or so I was moving my head to look around corners. Standing on top of a catwalk in Half-Life 2 and looking around with the headset was one of the most immersive experiences I've had with a game in a very long time. The display inside the headset was flicker free and I noticed no eye strain whatsoever while playing. It's OLED, so the response time is measured in nanoseconds. The headset is powered by your USB port, and we were told that if you use it with a laptop, you actually save about 20%-40% battery life because you're no longer using your LCD screen. It's about the equivalent of a 150" TV 12' away. You can watch movies or just do normal typing on it, which seems like a win-win for laptop users, a private large screen that saves battery power. It doesn't really look that dorky either, which you can see at their site. I'll put some pictures up when I can get to my email. The three real main drawbacks are that you can't go to the store and try them out just yet, the resolution in the headset is 800x600 (which isn't a big deal as it sounds) and it's $899. Still, if you have the cash from what demo I got to see it's worth it. Let me put it this way, I played for 10 minutes, and I didn't want to give the headset to somebody else. It was fun. - Pyroman[FO] | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Pyroman, Regarding the motion tracking of this unit. Have you notice any drift? Drift is that when you are moving very very slow, the motion tracker censor fails to detect any movement. I have a InterTraxII (non-military version), it fails to detect motion if I'm turning my head at the speed of least than 3 degrees per second. This is important if you are using it for flight sims. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Well, I took the jump and ordered one! I just hope its ok.. my credit card is not going to like this! - Ben | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Well! If you like to use it to watch movies in bed with your computer, you would not regrad buying it. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
What does regrad mean? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
The motion tracker itself is worth it alone. Most of the trackers aside from Intersense are pure junk. ie. the Virtuatrack and home made GyroTrackers | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hi guys great links. Niether are reviews though are they? One is some comments about E3 and what the guys played with. The second is an analysis of image quality across a number of HMDs and what the underlying science is. Ben if you've ordered one let us know? As for Anonymous saying the motion tracker is worth it alone how do you know if you've not tried one and there have been no reliable reviews? By the way the way it works is hardware manufactures usually ask key sites to review pieces of kit NOT the other way around. If they are selling this and it works well its in their interest to involve people on these sites. The fact they have not in itself is worrying as it means that either: they are ignoring an easy market (people like Ben)or it doesn't work that well or they don't know of these boards which again is little worrying as these are the main debating places on the net for this type of technology Viral marketing and people posting positive stuff about things they don't own or tried is a very boring. As for complainers. Whoes complaining? There is nothing to complain about until someone with no ties to emagin does a credible review and for me that would be Chris on this board or BOPrey or MH or Stereogamer or HardOp guys or Toms Hardware or Aanad or Sharkey Extreme or well there are a ton of credible people out there... Not one real review though Unclebob | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
You guys are all jumping the gun, there are no reviews yet because none of emagins HMD's have shipped yet. It states on their website 30-60 days to delivery, i would say wait for 45 days time and a few days before it's released in the shops then Tom's hardware will most definetely have a review. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Exactly right dvdbunny1. I really don't understand why people are criticising or recommending something that no one credible has reviewed. That is unless some people are doing the viral marketing thing... Best wait and see what the reviews say. All the best guys Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Reviews will be good too. I may not be a longtime diehard stereoscopic contributor, certainly I ain't credible Ha,- just a gamer- but I've tried one and I've ordered one. Seems most of the ones recommending it have tried it(or at least claim to have) and the ones criticizing it have not. Or have I missed some threads here. Bob - you seem to be the one who needs to see reviews - so wait for them and then make a decision. I don't need to see a magazine review before i see a movie, go to a restaurant or buy a computer or even a car, so I don't need one to buy a toy either , but then again , like you said , I've tried it. I doubt the denizens of this board are the main target market, so maybe the z800 people don't even know about it. Someone call them. It's not so much about the 3d even as the head tracking immersive gaming. Just a cool new experience for gamers. But you are right - they need to find a way to let people test drive these things. To lots of people $900 is a lot of money. But how? That's what these guys need to figure out. They claim a better mousetrap than any previous hmd , they need a better way to reach out to the mice. (well, that analogy stunk , but you get the idea) Ain't recommending or criticizing - just waiting for a shipment. -j | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
So what do you know? A relatively unknown product. That has been totally unpushed. Only available at E3 for anyone to use or test. Surprise, surprise we have several people already on the board (which is very very niche) that have tried it a bought it...ho ho. How likely is that? Not only that, they criticise someone for giving good advice which is to hold off any purchasing decision until real credible reviews come in? emagine marketter if you want to market the product give it to the credible sites to review don't BS us. Oh and I have been in contact with Susan Jones but that seems to have been ignored ...or has it ;¬}. As for buying stuff that has not been reviewed you must have bought an awful lot of crap in you life and as for eating in crap restaurants...well I'll leave that to you. You obviously know best. As for headtracking - just do a search in this forum its niether new or special we've seen it all before. In fact several people here have patents on that technology... But then perhaps thats why emagin hasn't let Chris or anyone here review this product... Oh and before a company uses and spends money developing a stereoscopic capability, they would have done some research, and as this site is top on a google search on this subject it is unlikely that despite my calls they are unaware of it... Sad state of affairs when viral marketing means you can't trust anything on what should be friendly forums. Unclebob | ||
| Mac333 Rating: N/A |
I agree with Unclebob. I will WAIT 4 a review or reviews before getting it. I got burned 1ce or 2ce...be smart...people will do or say anything 2 sell their CRAP. $899.00 may be nothing 2 some...but it's money 2 me. This whole 'marketing' thing its done in a 'funny' way...I maybe wrong...but...it's...unusual...maybe eMagine needs their shares 2 go UP...lol | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
If think the posts in this thread are funny check out this: http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=l&board=1601028323&tid=ema&sid=1601028323&mid=76135 Its the yahoo ema (emagin) investers thread some real idiots on there trying to inflate stock prices etc etc By the way, and for the record I sincerely hope this is a great product. It would be what most of us have been waiting for (and have spent money on ones that haven't delivered)... If it was successful then the next iterations would be even better Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Bob - don't know what you are inferring or implying. Don't care really. You voice your opinions loudly and repeatedly both here and on several other forums, as though they are worth more than we pay to read them. I'll do the same , if it's okay with you. I have no recommendation regarding the product whatsoever. Someone asked who has tried one and who will purchase one. I did not try the product at E3 either , so you are mistaken. I agree that perhaps waiting for a review is pretty good advice for many , if not most. Better yet would be to try it yourself somehow. I managed it. It's a toy though, albeit an expensice one. A gaming toy. Remember that. Don't attach more siginifigance to this product or this forum than they command. But it matters little. I'll either like it or I won't . It will either be a success or it won't. Not a big deal. A couple dozen posters on this forum won't matter to me in either outcome, thanks. If you're the kind of guy that needs to know what other people think of movies and restaurants and toys before you formulate your own opinion , that's fine. It's not my nature. You've been on this forum longer than me I take, and are far wiser I assume , so I'll grant you the last word and move on. Good luck Bob. -j | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Anonymous thanks for giving me the last word. Very kind. I'll take it. It may be a toy to you but it is far more significant to those die hards who do contribute on this forum. Unfortunately it is the nature of enthusiasts and people who spend their time and money pushing the bounderies on something to take it seriously. Not only that because we may have wasted our money and our time and we are decent people we happen to not want others to make the same mistakes. For you $899 may not be a lot. For others it may be a holiday or cost them a relationship. You obviously think the only people around have your kind of cash and can waste that kind of money on toys...how very small minded. As for trying it out. Where did that happen? The product is not on general release. None have turned up on any review sites or magazines, and there have been only two shows at which emagine showed the product. At the first the headtracker side had not been fully implemented. Get off your high horse and behave as a human being. Think about how what you post may influence others. Feel a little responsibility for the samll guy out there who drops $899 of his hard earned cash and ends up buying a donkey. Call me skeptical (I was one of the first to point this product out on these boards though) but we have seen products come and go in this stereo world and few if any have delivered. For someone who says they don't listen to other people or ask advice or read reviews you are very keen to get your own one across! So I suggest that you carry on not listening to people, reading reviews or asking advice. Spend your money in crap restaurants when next door produces food for the angels. Buy poor products and throw them away. I really don't care. I do care about making sure that people less savvy get good advice, don't waste their hard earned money and are not scammed by marketeers...thats my nature. All the best and good luck - (by not listening to the advice of others or benefiting from thier experience you'll need it!!) Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Well, i for my part wil vait for the reviews before i buy. Hope they are good tough ;) | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
If you guys are interested i just found emagins website has been updated with 2 new PDF documents about some trade shows where there presenting their 3dvisor. Also they discuss more specs on the 3d visor such as FOV, they also say that they make the displays for the Liteye 400 and 500 HMD's. They talk about how they are offering the displays to their OEM customers and i read about this somewhere before that the OEM's will come out with another kind of version which if their is demand for it in the VR community, we could see a more immersive display like a proper helmet display that will block out your perpehrial vision. But i wonder how long it will be, i also heard that OEM's have already started weork on these new OLED HMD's which use emagins displays. I just wonder when will they be released, i don't want to order emagins 3d visor just to find that a few months later there is a helmet version released. The thing i hate currently about the 3d visor is that you can see off to the left, right and below while wearing the HMD. If they could create somthing that would make the HMD more like a helmet so it could block out all external light that would be so much better. If anyone knows anything else about this OEM stuff that i have been talking about, then please share with me as i am very interested. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
Guys i have some extra news, at the e3 show there was another HMD check this site http://www.trimersion.com the HMD is made by www.3001ad.com they make VR for themeparks. You can check out some reviews of guys trying it out at e3. From what i have read, head tracking does not work well and the displays are a bit poor quality which makes viewing corridors in first person shooters seem dark. I hoe they will fix these problems for release as this is my type of HMD as it's a proper helmet display. I have read some reviews, of course none of these are full consumer reviews as none have shipped yet. But from the review i read they said even though the HMD looks like a chunky device it's actually not that heavy and sits comfortable on your head. The coolest thing i just read is that the gun comes included with the HMD and this gun rumbles after each time you pull the trigger giving you a more immersive experience. Another plus is that it has built in dolby digital 2.0 headphones, and head tracker. Now the reviews say that the head tracking is not very good but i jast saw a video from e3 which you can download and watch from the www.3001ad.com page look to the right. The video shows a few guys playing and if you watch them it shows what there seeing on an external monitor and i was looking and noticed when they move their head the view changes perfectly on screen. Now this is compatible with the XBOX, PS2 and PC. All PC first person shooters work but their is a small limited amount of PS2 and XBOX frist person shooters that work with this thing. Emagin 3d visor is only compatible with the PC. From what i have read is that this HMD has a viewing screen size of 46 inches viewed from 6 feet away which is half of the the size of emagins but because the viewing distance is half of emagins you will get the same sort of immersive experince. One other thing is that emagin is using OLED and i think this HMD uses LCOS displays, i am not sure exactly. Go here for some user reviews from the e3 show http://207.189.98.105/pdxlan5/content.php?content.33 http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-x-2043-x-x-x http://www.gamingnexus.com/Article.asp?ID=100&page=2 http://www.gamevortex.com/e3_2005/story.php/E3/596 | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I tried the z800 at the SID conference a couple weeks ago in Boston. Didn't have too much time to spend with it but enough time that it seemed to be a quality product. I ordered one. bigpat | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I tried the trimersion hmd at E3 (as well as the z800). It was an awful joke, especially compared to the z800. The resolution was painful and the product design was like balancing a surfboard on your head. I'm not associated in any way with either company, but the emagin hmd gets my money first (and it's cheaper anyway). I felt bad for the trimersion guys who had a big booth right next to emagin who had a tiny booth with a product that blew them away for over 25% less $$$. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hmmmm. All these 'I tried it and it was great and I'm buying one' are all well and nice, but it's gonna take some proper reviews to get me to part with my hard earned cash on this thing. How's about along with all the 'I tried it and instantly went Ahhhhhhhh' posts, people include some impressions. How was it like to wear, what did you try it with, what was the quality of construction like etc..... Call me overly cautious if you must, but it's gonna take more than 'Ooohhhhhh's & Ahhhhhhhh's' to convince me that this is a viable proposition for my gaming needs. I've been down the 'Oooohhhhhh & Ahhhhhhh' road before, and more often than not ended up with 'Hmmmmmmm WTF?' If you have tried it, then please post some practical impressions of the unit to help out those who have not. Cheers now..... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Personally with unclebob and the likes on here blasting away at anyone who says anything positive about anything, I'm not going to get into detail on the unit. All I'll say is that it was at E3 and I tried it, so was Trimersion, and the Z800 was way better than the Trimersion unit. Neither is that great, but the Z800 is at least better than any that I've tried at E3 and in the past. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
For those have tried any of those new hmd products, just inform the community those follow information as they are the most important one for VR gaming. 1. FOV in degrees. This is muct more accuate than x inch screen size at y feet. As we all know, in an immersive environment, peripheral vision is a far more important factor contributing to the game play experience. 2. Resolution. This is very import for centain VR applications. Especially applications that instruments involved, like flight simulation. 3. Weight distribution. This has directly to do with long term wearing comfort. Again, as we all know, our heads are supported directly by the spines. A well designed hmd unit, when weared, should have it center of gravity on top of the head toward the back instead of far infront of the eyes, which fits the description of most consumer HMDs. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
BoPrey, Other than the answers provided in the specs for the products I don't know how I could answer questions one or two. I did not try the trimersion hmd, only the z800. It seems pretty immersive to me , but I have not tried many other HMD's , but yes certainly you can see peripheral light and more annoyingly , movement. There are supposedto be optional side blinders with the hmd when it comes out , so I think that it may help the peripheral disturbances, and I think you may need to be able to see below you for many of us , in order to set / reset hand upon keyboard. But maybe even better would be to use in a dark room I think. As for weight distribution - having the hmd on fro 5 minutes it is hard to tell. It was comfortable to me but relooking at the hmd , certainly all the weight is toward the front I think. But there was adjustable strap to actually go around as well as over the head , more like an electric chair head zapper from a old cartoon than like a pair of eyeglasses , if that makes any sense. The other OEM I think will be using OLED displays id Daeying , whose HMD 's are due to come out in October I think , in Asia , and without head tracking as far as I know. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
I am glad the above poster mentioned daeyang, i just checked out their website and emagin might have some competition. http://www.daeyangenc.com/products/near/fmd.asp This new HMD has OLED screens and a 42 degree FOV, but can be linked to all games consoles and PC. You can watch 3D movies on it and it looks like a pair of sunglasses. They have a distrubution list but i don't think they are ready yet for shipping. There is no word on price and whether it comes with a built in microphone or headtracker, i doubt it. But it looks cool we just have to wait for the reviews, but one thing was interesting they mentioned at the end of their description 'welcome to the revolution' now maybe i have gone way over on that whole nintnedo revolution mockup video with the VR headset but what if this HMD from daeyang is the nintendo revolution. I better be quiet now but still i think this could well be another great HMD. | ||
| ayhbu Rating: N/A |
I think a majority of HMDs will be oled in the future. The competition will be in the design,optics,connectability and price. | ||
| habbahabba Rating: N/A |
darn... i was just going to order the z800 and now there is a new competition...:S anybody by any chance tried both? | ||
| Ixarov Rating: N/A |
Boprey, FOV can be calculated from the given screen width and distance as 2*atan(width/(2*dist)) and it gives 40º diagonal for the Z800 (from specs). Resolution is 800x600 (SVGA) also from specs. What I would like to know is more the image quality: - Is contrast and brightness OK? Are black areas black? Color? - Are the individual pixels too visible? Are the individual R, G, B subpixels visible? - How about the fill factor? does one see a black separation between pixels like a grid? As for the Daeyang FMD, it uses EMagin's OLED microdisplays, so the image quality should be the same. The difference is in the optics, giving 42º, and a lower weight. But these are further away from release. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
dvd bunny The daeyang FMD you reference is waiting on oled displays frommemagin who makes the Z800. | ||
| habbahabba Rating: N/A |
but would they make it better?.. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
hi, i am from the infamous emagin investors message board (link in a previous message from unclebob). By the way unclebob occasionlly pops in with good observations and constructive skepticism. Anyway, I haven't tried out the Z800 either and I probably won't buy until I either get a test ride or positive testimonials inundate me. I really just wanted to warn you that some persons on that yahoo board may pop in here and throw up a lot of nonsense about nose pinch and VOR sickness in an attempt to denegrate the Z800 and visors in general. Also, I woundn't be surprised if some of the more rabid investors don't try to do the opposite. I can see from reading your posts here this is no ship of fools...jad_333 | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
VOR sickness usually happens when the physical environment gets into the mix with the virtual environment, like most HMD without eyecups. This can be reduced by using eyecups when playing. However, this also requires the game to be played with hands-on-controlling devices only. It would work every well with console games. Not a good idea if you have to play on a pc game that keyboard access is required. Now. What the heck is nose pinch? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Nosepinch is was some idiot reviewer from USA today claimed the unit may do , and since the visor does not rest on the nose at all , it's probably safe to say that he never put one on. But hey it's a review , right ? Bob sees conspiracies everywhere , but to point out some validity - someone above claims to have been at E3 and says > - now I wasn't there but here's an outtake from clockmag , whom I classify as a pretty legimate source > makes you wonder. Someone else on another board claimed about the awsome speaker system in the unit they tried at e3. Then we find that the units at e3 were demo'd sans the earbuds. Seems there's a bunch of people trying to talk you into buying them after all. And a bunch trying to talk you out of it. (steve? lol). If you want it and can afford it - buy it. Don't like it , give it away or throw it on eBay. Not sure? Find a way to demo a model - it's really the only way to know. Hopefully the company has a plan to make that possible . Don't listen to other people to make up your mind (including me lol). -j. Clockmag link here: http://www.theclockmag.com/ | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hard time copy pasting(where arrows are above). Here 's the relevant point from above without the exact quotes - look at the originals. Earlier person (scroll up) claims Trimersion had a giant booth right next to emagin 's 'tiny' booth. Clockmag piece said eMagin had a sizable booth - one of the largest on the floor. -j. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
The Clockmag piece is about the SID(Society for Information Display) conference and exibition in Boston not E3. That might splain the differences in boot size. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Sorry - my error on confusing the two events. Kentia Hall floorplan does in fact show 3001AD booth bigger than Emagin at E3. Apologies. Why are we not hearing more hype about their HMD. Seems to be more geared toward the console market? Is it available now ? -j. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
They were not demoing console games at E3, only PC games from what I saw. I don't think they have the hooks for console games yet. And that was correct, no earbuds at E3 on the Z800. Who wants to use earbuds after 500 other people. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
damn these reviews take 2 long ... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Besides the specs which you can see for yourselves... I can say that it was very comfortable to wear. The head straps evenly distributed the weight, which was't even really a factor. I think the head straps are there mostly to keep the z800 from shifting. The Body wasn't anything special, just regular plastic (with different colors as options) but it seemed pretty durable, mostly because of its simplicity. I treated it gingerly at first but then started making adjustments to fit my eye seperation and bring it the right distance from my face, after that I was comfortable working with it. It doesn't touch your face, unless you swing it towards you too close. Each display slides independently to adjust to your eye seperation. This was the biggest drawback, I don't think that the slider is the best design since it was a little hard to make the adjustment, but once the adjustment is made it wasn't going to move on its own. Moving your head around was enjoyable with the tracker and seemed to work as you would hope with no noticable lag. Resolution, colors and brightness were all good to my eyes. And most importantly the game play was fun. Let's see, what else... oh they didn't have the microphone or headfones so I can't speak for their quality. Overall, I thought the image quality, optics, responsiveness of the head tracker and comfort were very good. I definitely feel on the bleeding edge on this one, but I had done my homework on the technology and I think I will be pretty happy playing with it. Emagin seems to have sidestepped the OLED longevity issue by using color filters on white OLED which has a longer lifespan than the blue OLEDs that others have tried using. bigpat | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Thanks for your views and sharing with us bigpat. I'm still going to wait until one of the big hardware review sites, or hardware magazines reviews these babies. I've wasted too much money and time over the years on this hobby getting things to work. Did you play any games in stereo? If so which ones? Unclebob | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Why companies like eMagin not putting demo units in BestBuys and Circuit Citys. I think this is the only way to reach the consumers, but so far, we have not seen that happening. Is eMagin affraid the product is not going sell or will be getting bad feed backs? What do you people think? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
BestBuy and Circuit City tried HMDs before they stocked the original I-glasses......they didn't sell....if the eMagin HMD isn't stocked buy these retailers there are lots reasons??? anybody know why??? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
BOPrey, IMO a $900 gaming visor has a niche market. May even be a pretty big niche but it ain't Best Buy big. Not now. ever see the demo's at best buy? iPod's all beat to crap and broken , laptops bolted to shelves. This may be sturdy for a visor , but 500 14-year olds adjusting /playing with/droppin it day in and day out? No way. Maybe someday when in the future when they have a $200 dvd viewer they should go mainstream. time and at least some knowledge of the product will be required to adjust the eyepiece and headstraps , perhaps calibrate head tracker? etc in order to acheive the desired experience. I can't get the guy at Best Buy to tell me if a cell phone has text messaging capability or not , - these guys are not going to be able to answer questions and debug 3d gaming visors. I expect to spend several hours toying around with mine before I feel comfortable. this is potentially going to be a problem with these things for many I think. I don't think that even were the demand there , that eMagin has the capability to mass produce a couple hundred thousand of these things and stock every best buy , costco and circuit city in the country. I bet they'll be more than happy to get rid of 5 or 10 thousand of these initially. just my opinion. -j. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
OK. Maybe not BestBuys. What about stores that usually sell cue products that are in a niche of their own, like Sharper Images. Those stores give products a lot more expo. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I think if these things are going to be on display at all it will be the choice of the story to display one out of their own stock. and more than likely it'll be behind the counter and only brought out only for serious potential buyers. definitely not for every 14 year old and their brother to throw about like a gameboy or something  | ||
| Devil Master Rating: N/A |
Hey, even when I was 14 I was very careful with my hardware. The only time I broke something (a joystick, in that case) I broke it INTENTIONALLY because I got mad with it. | ||
| allgames Rating: N/A |
Just reading some of these responses and having been covering the gaming industry for 10 years I say PLEASE DONT SEND ANY MONEY UNTIL YOU READ A REVIEW/PREVIEW. It's simple really, there is no reputable consumer electronics product maker that doesnt give a major publication a test drive before the product is available. The lack of any respectable preview is a major indication that there is something to hide. Most of the time a product will be "talked up" so the company can get pre-orders. I had the Virtual I-O glasses in 97 and I've seen them all since. Just wait, and any ANONYMOUS person telling you there is nothing wrong with ordering something nobody in the media has vouched for is a big indication they're a plant/shill for the company. Every company that is in tech has people online "spreading the gospel" don't be fooled. Just wait. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Well said ALLGAMES. Just be aware that someone will accuse you of working for a rival company... As if thats likely as you are trying to put some sanity on this. All the best Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
> All Games, Could you post a link to the major publications reviews of the Trimersion by 3001AD , or the Icuiti V920 or the Daeyang FMD? Thank you. | ||
| VResources Rating: N/A |
We have been trying to contact eMagin to get a Z800 review unit for about a month now. We have not heard back from them yet. If many people in this forum want a review, feel free to Email eMagin (see their contact section on their web site) and let them know that you would like to see reviews before buying. Let them know about us (VResources). We are ready to review the Z800 as soon as they provide us a unit. Regards VResources http://vresources.jump-gate.com/ | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Did you pay them a thousand dollars? LoL. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
The Daeyang FMD does not have headtracking. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
VResources, Have you tried calling this guy Joe Runde at (425) 882 7878 x 240. Let us know what they say. NEW EMAGIN VISORS ADD VISTA TO MEDIA CENTER PC; FIRST LOOKS You don't need to watch 3D to get a big-time kick out of the new eMagin Z800 visors ($899, ships shortly, first looks now). Plug one into a Media Center PC & no matter how small a cubicle you're sitting in at the time, it's like watching a 105" screen from 12 feet away - except you'll be watching in complete privacy, because eyes that might look over your shoulder can't peek inside the visor. You can find other reasons to love it, too, now that Joe has a few for first-looks reviews. Contact: Joe Runde, EMAGIN CORPORATION (Hopewell Junction, NY) 425-882-7878x240 mailto:jrunde@emagin.com http://www.emagin.com | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
"no matter how small a cubicle you're sitting in at the time" "eyes that might look over your shoulder can't peek inside the visor." It sounds like they want you to use this to watch dirty movies at work. LoL. They need to fire everyone in the marketing department. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Porn market is a hell of a lot bigger than the 3d gaming market. Porn seen by many as a driving force behind some technological advancements . There are even those who credit porn as the reason why VHS tapes triumphed over Betamax . Now, 3 dimensional porn? In complete privacy in your cubicle or train/plain/bus seat(do they make 3d porno?)? Sounds like a winner to me, without commenting on the virtues of it. Bunch a horny old devils probably line up to buy the things. Speaking of which , where the h*ll are they? It's the end of June. Never mind the marketing department - fire the production people. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
right you are, porn has been a 10 billion a year industry, first to adopt VHS and DVD. but to date there have been several attempts at adult and or porn in 3d........so far all have failed to make it. Virtual Max Systems released several titles in 1998 they had capatal and distrabution, the 3d effect was very good lots of excellent pop out of the screen effects.....they failed. 2003 3D fantasy Films came out with a good 3d anaglyph DVD with attractive models called THE NAKED TRUTH.....they failed too. some others released VHS and DVDs of adult themed 3d....all have failed to sell.....why????? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
For a great out of the screen pop out effect try http://www.gamershell.com/news/22757.htmlect to Artox on another 3d forum: On the subject of 3d porn: For a great out of the screen pop out effect try http://www.gamershell.com/news/22757.html Have fun guys.. ;¬) | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I worked for an HMD company for a few years. I think tht technology is cool but I would never in a millon years buy something that wasn't tried first or had a very solid review from an independent source. I know back in the day our sales team used to fill this board up with Anonymous "this is great! I am buying one" comments to drive our sales or pre-orders. It actually works, people fall for it. I have tried the eMagin head tracker and it was ok (this is a few years back) - it used to have a problem with drifting when you turned your head real fast then stopped, it would keep drifting in the direction your head was going. This is common in consumer HT's. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Anonymous, Could you tell us what product you tried "the eMagin Head tracker" in? Was it a stripped and refit Olympus HMD prototype? Do you think eMagin is manufacturing their own head tracking gear? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
"...I worked for an HMD company for a few years... ..back in the day our sales team used to fill this board up with Anonymous "this is great!.." You're Steve, right?? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hahaha! | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
I don't mind taking the risk and buying one to see what it is like. In fact, I have put in my order. When I get it through, I will post a review on my blog at http://raeldor.blotspot.com. I have used the Cyvisor before, and used to own the Sony PLM-S700, so I have a good basis for review of consumer HMD's. I have have the Intertrax2 for comparison on the head tracker. | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
Sorry, that's http://raeldor.blogspot.com. | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
Hey Unclebob, Just because I got to spend 5-10 minutes playing with one doesn't mean I'm suggesting that most people should put in their orders just yet. I am taking a bit of a risk ordering one just based upon one trade show demo and some fluffy articles written after the e3 expo and I realize it. Hopefully some independent reviewers will come out with some decent hands on reviews in the next couple months. I played two games at two different demo stations. The one I recognized was Half Life 2, Deathmatch. Though I was less impressed with the 3d effect with that game since some of the closer objects had depth but a lot of the background objects seemed a bit flat. The headtracker seemed to work well, since I was shaking my head like an idiot trying to notice any drift. Didn't notice any. I forget the name of the other game, it had some more impressive stereoscopic depth to the objects, lots of trees and bushes... looked real pretty, but I couldn't find anything fun to shoot. bigpat | ||
| turn n burn Rating: N/A |
Emagin!!! Are you reading this??? If what bigpat says is true, even the lack of depth in 3D, I will buy the Z800. I'm sure many others will also. Of course if the Visor is not all that people say, well, you know. | ||
| turn n burn Rating: N/A |
Emagin, sorry, forgot to add this. If you only have one Visor, send it to Ray Price, (message above) and let him tell us how it works. Send it soon. http://raeldor.blogspot.com | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Bigpat when you played halflife2 what image effects were missing? Did it have the legendary flashing and missing textures that occur when 3d is enabled? What did the HUD look like? Be interesting to find out as most of the 3d community have struggled to get this game to work properly in 3d. If emagine have (as you suggest as you don't point out any of the usual issues with this game in 3d) then it is a minor miracle. Especially when you consider this is a trade show and you want to show off the best your product can do. Perhaps they did not show it in 3d? If they had asked anyone here Painkiller would have been the way to go, almost and I say almost perfect 3d. NO software hacks required. By the way I would not trust any reviews in any forum due to the number of VIRAL marketters that work forums like this to drum up support and sales. As any of the old hands will testitfy wait for the independant reviews on the usual game and hardware sites before dropping $900 on any kit. Endorsments on this board by Christoph, BOPrey, puppetkitekid, dvdbunny, MH or anyone that has been posting here for a number of years would be credible. People with one or two posts since the product was announced or have started since, would not as it is likely that that they are just marketing this product. Wait for real reviews. Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hi all, I've just read through the entire board. Not because I'm trying to decide whether to buy - I've already ordered one. I guess I've just been waiting too long now for the 'perfect immersive gaming experience. At this rate I could die before it finally arrives so here goes.... | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
By the way, I am just about wealthy enough to chuck it away if it's no good but it would still sting. Guess I'm an eternal optimist! Dave | ||
| Duane Rating: N/A |
Dave, In that case...buy me one too!!! LOL | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
Unclebob, The HL2 set up was running in stereo 3d. The built in monitor of the laptop was showing the stereo effect of displaying two slightly offset images on the same monitor with the resulting flashing as you describe, but there was no noticable flashing in the z800 for HL2. I play the game often at home and I didn't notice any textures missing and some of the objects certainly had more perceivable depth. Mostly I just thought some of the wall texture mappings were a bit flat. I unfortunaely didn't think to ask about the configuration of their demo machine. I just remember being surprised they could run those games in stereo 3d on a laptop, but they do sell gaming laptops with nvidia chip sets now, so that's what it must have been running on. bigpat | ||
| Duane Rating: N/A |
Do 3d games work thru an HMD if your laptop has an ATI Graphics card rather than NVIDIA? For that matter can you play stereo games on an ATI graphics desktop? I'm asking because I may get the z800 after I see some good reviews, but want to make sure I could use it with my laptop. The laptop has 256mb ATI Radeon graphics card. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
Duane There is an ATI stereo driver made by edimensional for use with their shutterglasses but the problem is you have to by the shutterglasses made by them in order to be able to download the software. Or at least that's what i have heard. People say that Nvidia have far better stereo quality as the stereo drivers are built directly into the graphics cards, well you have to still download it but it works in cojuction with the Nvidia main drivers. I may buy all future HMD's as i like the different designs and i will post a honest detailed review with their pro's and con's. and tst it with a load of games, but before i can do this i seriously need a new PC. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
sorry, up above i mean test it with a load of games. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Forget 3d if you have a ATI card. Do a search on this board to find out all the problems and issues that this will cause. Not only that but in the few games that do work it will be in interlaced mode which cuts the resolution down to 800*300 or 400* 600 depending on which method of interlacing you use...with black lines in the missing ones. Thats how the driver works, well wow thats immersive... The information is all here, read up on it before spending money and being disappointed. This is not a fanboy site. Most games do NOT WORK in stereo3d. They are NOT written that way. Even games that do work well need a lot of tweaking and playing with settings. For instance lens bloom tends to be a flat texture at a set depth in the Z buffer, as such when you see this in stereo3d it is totally out of place in the image. Thats just the way it is. Bigpat. How was the HUD in HL2 in Stereo through the visor? Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
dvdbunny you are right you can only get the 'ATI' driver if you buy edims glasses. Lots of issues with the drivers seach the forum for pages and pages of dissappointed users and frustration. Anyone that has been doing this for a while will simply say. Avoid or don't bother. Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: |
"Most games do NOT WORK in stereo3d. They are NOT written that way. Even games that do work well need a lot of tweaking and playing with settings. For instance lens bloom tends to be a flat texture at a set depth in the Z buffer, as such when you see this in stereo3d it is totally out of place in the image. Thats just the way it is. " Aint that the truth. Listen to Bob. It's a full time job getting good results with the Nvidia drivers which 'support' stereoscopic gaming/apps. I shudder to contemplate the ATI Stereo experience.... *Shudders* | ||
| Duane Rating: N/A |
Maybe I don't know much about stereo3d, but every game that I've played in stereo worked fine to me. I have a NVIDIA 128mb card on my desktop. What do you mean by do NOT WORK?? Every game I've tried has depth and looks 3d to me and runs fine and I'm using a CPU with only 850mhz Pentium III. What am I missing?? I've tried Halo, Call of Duty, Need for Speed, Madden 2004, Splinter Cell, Tiger Woods Golf, Tomb Raider, GTA-Vice City and they all look 3d with some ghosting. I use the edimensional glasses. Also, does anyone have a recommendation for a laptop or laptop maker that has a NVIDIA card for 3d gaming?? Thanks. This is a great and helpful site. Duane | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Every game? How many games have you tried? With how many different driver versions? I can count the number of games that have perfect stereo without any tweaking needed at all on one, maybe two hands..... For the rest it's a case of tweaking registries/game ini files/drivers/in game graphics settings etc. Perfect Stereo games straight out of the box are few and far between. The norm is tweak city. I suppose most games do indeed have a stereo effect. As to wether that translates into a playable, immersive experience for 'most games, well, that's open to debate. I love Stereoscopic gaming. The few perfect experiences make up for the vast majority of mediocre/downright poor ones. However much tweaking/troubleshooting that might involve. I notice you have listed mainly a few of the games that work well with 3D.... Care to list those that are perfect along with those that are not? Do that and we might be able to have a proper discussion about what constitutes 'most' in the field of quality 3d gaming.... Ged.... | ||
| Ixarov Rating: N/A |
Hi. I would like to comment some ideas about that have been discussed in this forum: 1) NVIDIA has a so-called "Consumer Stereo Driver" for GeForce cards, which produces page flipped (for shutter glasses) or anaglyph (red-cyan) images. This driver makes non-stereo-aware games (in theory any OpenGL or Direc3D based) display stereoscopic images. To do that, it internally manages a double back buffer, so that any GL drawing operation is drawn to both buffers with slightly different camera transformations. 2) The transformations applied to calculate the left/right images are suitable for viewing a screen with special (shutter or colored) glasses. BUT those transformations are (IMO) incorrect for displaying on an HMD visor. In a conventional monitor, both eyes look at the same screen from two different points. The good transformation then requires asymmetric frustum projections (as is usually done in stereo setups and this driver does). In an HMD each eye has its own screen and is centered with respect to it. Then normal symmetric frustum projection is needed. This is roughly why typical stereo projections are unsuitable for HMDs. They may be acceptable in some conditions. Anyway, a developer of these calculations should have details on the optical systems used in the visor (their position with respect to the eyes, their convergence if any) to produce the correct perspective. 3) The Z800 (if it ever comes out) uses page flipped signal, so I guess they used this stereo driver for the demos. In my opinion (though I miss details) the stereo projections could give some depth perception but are not really correct. I have already contacted NVIDIA about this little problem and got initial aknowledgement. I also tried to contact eMagin but got no response. In any case, proper depth representation is not the job of the Z800 but of the software application and/or driver producing the stereo projections. The Z800 just has to display two different images (as they come) on each microdisplay. | ||
| Duane Rating: N/A |
Ged, I just listed the games that I own. Maybe I'm lucky or just am not that picky (is there such a thing as perfection??) I own the Sims but I never tried it in 3d cause I didn't see the point. Duane | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Duane. Aint tried Sims 2 but yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Actually I've been on a bit of a retro binge of late and am going through my collection of oldies again. Just played through Silent Hill 2 (perfect 3D), Undying (perfect apart from having to get rid of the crosshairs in the game ini file and replace with lasersight) and the latest I'm onto is System Shock 2 (Not perfect but immensly atmospheric and fun nevertheless. Hey! I'm not 'that' picky yaknow) ;) I did play through the call of duties recently and enjoyed em lots in 3D (Apart from the lasersight slipping in and out of depth and not being able to turn of the heavy calibur weapon sights that is). For the best War/FPS'r though I'd reccommend Op Flashpoint, which although gettin on a bit, makes for a real good immersive experience after a minimum of tweaking. Oh and just got through Far Cry in 3D also. Amazin visuals in 3D. Does take a fair amount of tweaking though but if you have a look around the 3D gaming forums there's some good guides to take you through it. Have Fun now.... Sorry for the Off Topic all. Peace .... Ged | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Ixarov, The transformation parameters can be adjusted in real time through hot keys on the Nvidia driver. You just have to set it up right for HMD. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Specs on the Z800 headtracker # Weight: less than 15 grams # Rotation Range: 360 degrees (all axis); Mouse emulator mode provides control over 360 degree horizontal and >60 degrees vertical # Data Update Speed: 125 Hz # Maximum Latency: 4 milliseconds (from device) # Drift: 1 degree/5 minutes # Resolution: 1 degree (yaw, pitch, and roll) They put a learn more link on their site with FAQ http://www.emagin.com/3dvisor/html/LearnMore.htm | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
They are now shipping the Z800!! I will have mine soon! http://www.emagin.com/3dvisor/html/learnmore.htm#When Ben | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Gimme Gimme Gimme!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have received am e-mail notice too and they are offering $50 rebate to preorder customers, but it still does not state the exact date of shipping. -j. | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
Unclebob, not sure what you want to know about how the HUD looks. HL2 has a pretty non obtrusive HUD which is mostly translucent. I'm not sure I really remember how it looked in the z800. Hopefully I can let you know by next weekend. bigpat | ||
| Ixarov Rating: N/A |
I am a professional research engineer and I have studied these things for quite some time. Perspective stereo projections for conventional screens (CRTs or projectors with shutter glasses or dual projectors with polarized glasses) and for HMDs are mathematically different. They don't just differ on parameter values, so adjusting parameter values in the drivers will not make the projection transformation correct. Depth perception should not be better or worse. It should be correct or incorrect. A virtual object at 3 virtual meteres should be perceived at 3 meters if the transformations are correctly made. As an example, a distant star that one looks at should appear in the center of both images in an HMD's microdisplays. But it should appear in different positions on a stereo screen (shifted on the screen exactly the same as the eye separation). I am really interested in the correctness of these calculations (which can lead to much much better depth perception) and that's why I have contacted both NVIDIA and eMAGIN (the first with more success). | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I believe NVIDIA provides the left/right emulation images along with a pin toggle off/on for left/right display in stereo mode on the VGA pin set connected to the hmd | ||
| turn-n-burn Rating: N/A |
Well, after scanning through thousands (well.. maybe only hundreds) of web sites reading about each different HMD in my price range ($1,000.00 plus or minus) I just ordered the Z800. From what the people who actually looked at them at the trade show say and seeing all the research and comparisons available, it seems the Z800 is a step above the rest. I don't work for them, I'm a retired Army Helicopter Pilot and a die-hard FS2004 and IL-2 player. There are others that pre-ordered so for those waiting to see, I will at least be able to review flying a simulator some time soon. If it doesn't work, my wife will kick my hiney. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
bigpat the reason I ask is that it took a long time for people experienced in playing games in stereo3d to get HL2 working. Initially youhad to force a dx7 path which lost some of the eyecandy. The last issue was the HUD. Even to get this to work it involves a registry hack and a custom ini file for the game. The the major issue was the HUD as this tends to be a 'flat' texture at a set depth which then gets mangled as the driver offsets for the right than left eye. Text in game played in stereo3d tends to be unreadable because of that. As for turn-n-burn, what research and comparisons are available, its not shipped yet! Kind of you to drop $899 for the rest of us, lol. As for pointing to the emagine site for headtracker information, what do you expect them to say - that its crap? If it works great, when its reviewed independantlty we'll all know, all else is conjecture or stuff posted by people drumming up sales for an as yet untried product. Later all. Unclebob | ||
| turn-n-burn Rating: N/A |
>> >>As for turn-n-burn, what research and comparisons >>are available, its not shipped yet! >>Kind of you to drop $899 for the rest of us, lol. You're very welcome. I'm hoping to write a positive review. If it's negative, I probably won't be able to write after the MRS's gets through with me. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Ixarov, I know what you are talking about the transformation. However, it is almost impossible to do the kind of correct transformation for the HMD without knowing which object the user is looking at. Well, at least not untill we have eye tracking built into the HMD. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Turn-n-burn you can write your review but as you have not posted here before the Z800 was anounced I doubt that I'll take much notice. My sister works as a project manager for a viral marketerring company but I think its a completely dishonest way to drum up sales. In case people don't know, viral marketeers pose as 'honest posters' giving 'honest reviews' or drum up support by saying things like. "I've done my research and I'm definitely goning to buy this awesome bit of kit"...silly really when there are NO articles to base any research on yet! PC Gamer apperently has a paragraph about the Z800 on page 80 if anyone can dig it out. Positive too. But thats about it as of 11/7/2005 I'll try and keep this balanced. By the way have you noticed how few people are now posting in any of the forums on this site since the viral marketeers have arrived? Every other board I post on (helping poeple mostly) are thriving at the moment. Except this one. Makes you think doesn't it. Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I doubt eMagin would be spending precious funds on such marketing techniques. What is more likely is that you have small time investors in eMagin who are very enthusiastic on the company who also plan on buying the Z800. The share price sells below $1 on the AMEX and once was $3 so it's not hard to do the math on where those who are invested think it may go with successful manufacturing and a successful Z800 launch. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
So Uncle Bob...Is there any point in me writing to this forum at all? even though I've just ordered one of these things and will be playing with it soon? If you're just going to write me off as a marketeer, perhaps I'll not bother telling you what I think. I understand your scepticism, but you shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. Dave | ||
| turn-n-burn Rating: N/A |
Damn Uncle Bob. Suspicious. I didn't post here before because I just found the place when I was reading all I could find on the Z800. Found the following site because of a post up toward the top of this forum. I did post there once, down toward the end. http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000873043851/#c321214 Then found this site. Read and compared the info there. http://vresources.jump-gate.com/articles/vre_articles/analyhmd/analysis.htm Then of course the emagin site. http://www.emagin.com/ I don't have any stock in the company and sure as heck don't work for them, and if the visor isn't as advertised they will get it back. If you want to read about it, or not, doesn't matter to me. I thought I found a friendly group to talk to about the Z800 and other brands, like the i-glasses. Since I just ordered the Visor I'm sure there will be people in this forum who will receive theirs before I get mine. I'm hoping they write some positive comment when they do. If it's bad news I will cancel my order that very day. As long as they don't charge my credit card before shipping my pair I should be able to cancel. But from what I have read I'm anxious to use them. turn-n-burn aka akita77 (don't know why I thought up the turn n burn name.) | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hi guys not suspicious as I said my sister works for a viral marketing company, its THE cheapest route to market although in my opinion dishonest. Most of the old hands here will advise as I have. Don't spend your money until a product has been reviewed. There is little to no objective detailed information out there about this product. There are no 'proper' reviews. Don't blame me, blame emagines marketing team. Sending out 10 of these to the major review sites would bring in thousands of orders if it "does what it says on the can". This is such a well understood route to market - look at every card manufacturer. Typically there are three issues with HMDs. Headtracker lag or sensitivity Optical fidelity Motion sickness due to lenses magnifying a small close to the eye screen and then using artifical methods to generate a 3d image/illusion. See Ixarov's post above. These are big issues, so far unresolved as far as released products go. Any one of which will destroy any immersive experience a best or make you feel sick at worst. (this is scientifically documented I am not rubishing ANY particular product here its common across all HMDs). I have no problem with any of you guys dropping your cash on anything. I have a problem when it seems you are trying to encourage others to do the same. Especially as people come here for good not poor advice. That is unless you simply view this board as a place to promote products. Unclebob | ||
| FD Rating: N/A |
Does anybody know which headtracking technology is been used with Z800? I just was wondering if it is safe to have a device on your head that continuously produces a radio wave around your head. Greetings, FD | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
It's FCC approved if that helps you. But what radio waves would there be from a gyro, mems accelerators and a compass? compare to a cell phone it's prolly nothing. | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>>Most of the old hands here will advise as I >>have. Don't spend your money until a product has >>been reviewed. I can't say what changed my mind about waiting for a review. I was very near ordering the i-glasses 3D Pro. Maybe I made a mistake, I hope not. And I would not advise anyone to buy them just because I wrote about them. >> >>Sending out 10 of these to the major review >>sites would bring in thousands of orders if it >>"does what it says on the can". This is such a >>well understood route to market - look at every >>card manufacturer. >> >>Typically there are three issues with HMDs. >> >>Headtracker lag or sensitivity >>Optical fidelity >>Motion sickness due to lenses magnifying a small >>close to the eye screen and then using artifical >>methods to generate a 3d image/illusion. See >>Ixarov's post above. >> I retired after 25 years as a helicopter instructor pilot. I believe I mentioned somewhere that I liked flying flight simulators and the Z800 would be positive or negative based on it's ability to immerse me in the simulation. The simulators I flew in the Army were the basic IMC UH-1 full motion sims which had a white windshield. The AH-1 Simulator in Germany, which was a fixed cockpit looking at a wrap around screen which displayed the video captured from a small camera that moved around a terrain board. That one would cause more nasiua than the full motion IFR sim. We were not allowed to fly into Ansbach to fly the AH-1 Sim because some pilots did have some middle ear problems after flying it. We had to drive from Nurnberg to the sim and back. One funny incident, some of the wives were touring the AH-1 sim when a fly landed on the terrain board in front of the camera. They were screaming for 5 minutes. The whole screen displayed a gigantic fly looking at us. The other sim was an OH-58D sim at Ft Rucker Al. It was difficult to fly because you were sitting in a half cockpit looking at a giant screen 10 feet in front of you. But after some getting used to, it became much easier to control. That's one of the reasons I am looking forward to flying the Visor. From what has been written the visor looks to be like that setup which would be fine with me. >> >>I have no problem with any of you guys dropping >>your cash on anything. I have a problem when it >>seems you are trying to encourage others to do >>the same. >> I hope I didn't come across as encouraging anyone to buy the Visor just because I ordered one. If I receive it before anyone else has written a review, I will tell how it looks and feels while flying Flight Simulator 2004 and IL-2 FB. In fact, it would be sensible to wait if flying simulators was one of the uses someone would like to use the Visor for. First person shooters are another matter. Someone else needs to review those. >> >>Especially as people come here for good not poor >>advice. That is unless you simply view this >>board as a place to promote products. >> Actually that's why I came here, to look for good advice. I am hoping the Visor will replace the monitors and get me immersed into the game. Here are some reviews I gave (and some were just fun) while flying FS2004. Can you imagine a visor that will replace all these monitors? I am hoping the Visor is as good as it seems but if it isn't I'll post my observations, positive or negative. OH-58D http://img240.echo.cx/my.php?image=secretbase020tm.jpg http://img240.echo.cx/my.php?image=secretbase01a6zt.jpg AH-1 Normal Approach http://img44.echo.cx/my.php?image=normalapproach021ht.jpg AH-1 Front Seat http://img123.echo.cx/my.php?image=cobrafrontseat2cp.jpg AH-1 Autorotation http://img123.echo.cx/my.php?image=autopanelgoodauto023qg.jpg AH-1 Auto 02 http://img122.echo.cx/my.php?image=ah1autostretch021yh.jpg The Vet http://img92.echo.cx/my.php?image=visitingthevet027hg.jpg Oil Rigs http://img81.echo.cx/my.php?image=testing017vm.jpg ATX C-130 flight http://img152.echo.cx/my.php?image=c1301sl.jpg CV 240 into KAUS http://img79.echo.cx/my.php?image=cv240kaus7cp.jpg Socata http://img79.echo.cx/my.php?image=vp01.jpg | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
Does anyone know what the focal depth of the Z800 is? In other words, at what virtual depth do the lenses in the Z800 cause your eyes to focus on? Is it 12 feet? 3 feet? Since the info page says nearsighted people should use their glasses while using the Z800, that's a good sign the focal depth is far enought out to be safe, but I'd just like to know the number since it's a proven fact that staring close up at a screen causes eyestrain and nearsightedness over time. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
12 feet as specified. | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Uncle Bob I put together some of the information a collected while researching the Visors. All I could go by is what is written and available. The info is now on a web page which actually can be interpreted as showing the i-glasses Visor just as good as the Z800. But anyone can interpret it any way they want. Take a look. http://firestone.vze.com/ Bob Akita77 | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Aren't those who say a 105 inch screen at 12 feet is the same as a 15" screen at 2ft (or whatever) missing the point? When I use my shutter glasses and small screen, I perceive tiny 3D people jumping and shooting. If the screen were 105 inches and 12 feet away, the people would seem life size wouldn't they? Wouldn't this be a massively superior experience? Dave | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Akita77 great work. All In no way do I wish to upset anyone. After years and years of telling people don't buy ati if they want to use shutterglasses, beware of this product as the specs say this but it actually delivers that... That despite what the manufacturers say on their pages the image is blurred, the colours aren't right and the headtracker lags or worse carries on when you have stopped moving. This has been the experience that people here have had before whilst buying stuff in this stereo3d world. This is why this and other forums exist. So that other people can benefit from shared experience and problems that other people have already solved. So they don't waste their hard earned cash, their spare time tweaking and fiddling, effecting their relationships and bank balances. You can take honest advice or not. The advice is simple and common sense and based on many, many dissappointments in this field. Don't get sucked in by hype or web page specs. Don't waste your money until these sort of products have been reviewed properly by people that review hardware regularly. Its your money, its your life, its your risk of course. Roll on the reviews for me though, then I may drop the $1200+ it would cost in the UK - thanks Mr B Lairs govt. Unclebob | ||
| Ixarov Rating: N/A |
Dave, Let me disagree. If you perceive differently sized objects when using different screen sizes it's because your software is not aware of the different screen sizes. You should at least adjust the game's FOV to your screen viewing FOV (40º constant in the case of the Z800, but varying with distance in the case of normal monitors). To make the correct transformations, the system needs to know the size of the screen and your position with respect to it. You could even be standing on a side of a big screen, and the software should know that exactly to produce the correct view. But that is usually ignored and stereo systems normally assume the viewer is in front of the screen. If the trasformation is well made you would perceive objects the right size and distance regardless of your screen size. Think of the screen as a window. Looking through small or big windows the objects outside are always the same size. But in the small one you will see only part of the object beceuse the field of view is smaller. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Ixarov, Ok, so say I'm playing quake and I adjust the Z value so that a guy standing close to me is in front of the screen and I can see his head and feet. That means he is in the 20 inches between me and the screen. he is about 12" tall. Now if he were in front of the 105" screen in the 12 foot space he would look bigger, right? He might even look life size. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
I guess you are Dave. The simple answer to your question is no. The reason is if his body fits on the screen, he still be 15" tall, but this time, in front of you. I own an i-glasses, and I know. If you want to experienment, run you game on you regular monitor and put in stereo. Come back and tell us what you see. What good does it do if the screen is 100' at 100' Back to the real stuff. The reason that all those consumer HMD is like this is that simple optics won't be able to increase the FOV any more than what we have seen. I am not saying that it is not possible. It is just complicated and more expensive to produce a HMD that has a very large FOV in a package like the Z800. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
To add to what BOPrey said to Dave, When you have bigger screen that means more things pop out of the screen, when you have a smaller screen that means more things are in the screen. If things were to work right, the screen is just another window into another world. Size of the screen should not control how large things are in that world, the software determines that based upon your settings. In NVidias stereo control panel there is a setting where you specify your screen size, that is the reason it is there. | ||
| Akita77 Rating: N/A |
BOPrey Can you give me a run down on the i-glasses? Which version do you have? If it's a 3D capable Visor, how does it perform? Do you use a head tracker? I think they stated the display was like a 70 inch screen at 13 feet or so. How does the display look when playing a game? Is there a feeling that the statement is true and you can relate the 70 inch screen at 13 feet? All of the reading I've done on the i-glasses was all positive but are you thinking of buying the Z800 in addition to the i-glasses if the Z800 lives up to it's specs? I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts about it. Akita77 | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Well. The one that I have is the PC only version and it's stereo capable. At the time I bought it, I also bought InterTrax II. They work as advertised; even in stereo 3D. The display look fine. Again, what can you expect from the 800x600 res. I even wrote an application to interface InterTrax with Falcon 4. Well, 70 inch screen at 13 feet is 70 inch at 13 feet. There is not that much you can say about that. It is 28 degree FOV, which is way too low for me. On top of that, the consumer version trackers usually have drift problem which require constant recentering. Also, because the way it is designed, it kept falling of my face. However, this can be fixed by an addon helmet. So I have stopped using it for gamming, instead using it for secured viewing when needed. However, like I said in other posts. The biggest problem facing current consumer HMD is not the tech. It is that the manufacturers try to produce one unit that fits several different markets. You know what happened when Ford tried that last time. I'm going to pass on the Z800. I think it will lives up to it's specs; but not still way off for the type of VR I want to do. I hope this helps. | ||
| Akita77 Rating: N/A |
Thanks. I appreciate the reply and the observations. It gives me something more to think about. Bob Akita77 | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
"type of VR I want to do" what would that be? Whats do you want from a HMD and what would you expect to pay for it? Me, WXGA with a 1:1 percieved distance to diagonal width ratio (plus headtracking and stereo) at USD$1400 max what's everyone elses' definition of VR? | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Can you explain what "1:1 percieved distance to diagonal width ratio" is? Going back to topic here. In my design, the HMD is only a small part of it. Other parts including but not limited to video or optical see through, and giving real objects virtual properties. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
A 10ft screen at 10ft.. a thousand foot screen at 1km... It's easier for me to percieve a screen size in terms of how far away i am from it. Wouldn't giving real objects virtual properties/ layered perception come after a decent rez hmd is available, since it would already be possible through hi-def cameras and software? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Does anyone know how many DOF the tracker has on the Z800? Can it detect head tilt (Up/Down & left/right)? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
2 DOF, it will only emulate a mouse. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
"A 10ft screen at 10ft.. a thousand foot screen at 1km... It's easier for me to percieve a screen size in terms of how far away i am from it." That is a HMD with horizontal FOV of 60 degrees. On there other hand, there is no way that you know how far away from the screen. Want to test, cut a little hole on the wall, stand at 10 feet from the hole, and look at objects outside. Now tell us how far those objects are. One thing about distance perception is that we brains use a lot of reference objects to determine distance/size of the observed object; but all those reference objects don't exist when you are wearing a HMD. Do a test. Put youself in a room and wear a motocycle helmet such that you cannot see the four sides of the wall. Now tell me how far is wall from you. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
"2 DOF, it will only emulate a mouse. " Which means it is useless. | ||
| Acidtech Rating: N/A |
Have an example of a tracker that has more than 2 DOF and doesn't cost over a grand itself? Maybe you should wait till someone reviews this before you say its tracking is useless. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Given the tracker specs it has 3 DOF (yaw, pitch and roll). Since roll of a typical head (unless one is doing gymnastics) is usually constant, 2 DOF would be quite acceptable to detect where you're looking at. What this tracker is missing is position information (the extra 3 in 6 DOF). So moving your head back and forth will not make objects appear closer or futher away (they will seem to get away when you move towards them). Adding this 3 DOF would make the tracker a lot more expensive (around $2000 is the minimum for a magnetic 6DOF tracker). Anyway in flight sims, your head is normally always in the same position where you're sitting and only its orientation changes. And in shooters you control position (ie move) using the joystick and not moving your body. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I spoke with people who said that the image distorts really bad when you change the view in the z800. Has anyone heard this? They said OLED is known for this problem. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
"Maybe you should wait till someone reviews this before you say its tracking is useless. " 2D is not useless, but emulating a mouse is. Say you turn your head left and mouse point is already at the left edge of the screen. Continue turning your head will not move the pointer a bit. When you start turning right, the pointer starts to move to the right immediately. So, if you turn left or right too much, your physical center heading will changed as well. Before you know it, your body will have to be facing one direction and your heading facing another to center the game. I would love to see someone using it in the public, and I'm sure it will give me quite a giggle. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
I am sick of this ranting about the z800, none of you should be thinking about if this works or doesn't work. Just wait for a review it shouldn't be long now. It's better to ignore this part of the message board till afew weeks time. I think you will find that the Z800 will be better than you all thought. Why isn't emagin doing much with marketing this thing, well i think they know that there onto a winner so they don't want to hype it up like all these other products have done instead they will sell them, deliver them and wait for positive reviews to come flooding in and these will help the sale of Z800, so just sit back and wait. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I agree, everyone shutup. The Z800 isn't even released yet and you are already experts on it. Please zip it unless you've actually used one yourself. I don't care if your sisters friends brother has used it or might have walked by it once. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Um, does a Sisters Friends Brothers Mate who he met down the pub count? Just like ..... wonderin. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
So is this one of those boards that is controlled by a couple of narrow-minded assholes who don't know how to skip over messages they disagree with? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
I don't see anyone on this thread trying to get people to buy one of these things. I see several people recommending that you NOT buy one, for whatever reason. I agree with the who cares attitude. I didn't come here to be told what to do. My Z800 is scheduled to arrive tomorrow as per UPS. I see there are several others who have already received them. I hope to start a thread for those who actually own one and bounce some ideas and game reviews etc off eachother and offer help with setups etc. The viral marketeers and those who see them behind every bush can read and hopefully not participate unless it is on topic and helpful to visor uses. Just an idea. -j. | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
yes, a z800 users thread would be useful. bigpat | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
That's great you are receiving yours tomorrow. I will be checking here often for your opinion as I'm sure many will. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
if the z800 is any good you will see them at Best Buy,CompUSA,etc game departments. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Hey guys no one is saying don't buy one. All anyone on this thread with any sense is saying is wait until credible reviews come out before you do. If you disagree with such a sensible position and get annoyed that someone is saying this then I can only assume that either you are trolling or you are part of emagines marketing team. If you check the Yahoo investors board its quite plain that they have hired them. As for saying that several have recieved them who? I know of one, and I know someone with order number 1104 that has yet to recieve his...so I suppose that is less than a 1000 shipped. Boy you must know a LOT of people to know several ... lol Good luck with yours, I hope it works as well as you hope it does. I sincerely hope this is a good product. This is what the stereo3d commmunity needs. However, there have been soo soo many products that have promised so much and delivered so little. Not worth a $899 risk. But that is my opinion and this is a free board and as the guy above says, if you disagree walk on by. Unclebob | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Unclebob said it better than I could've put together. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Bob- I'm neither a troll or a marketer of any kind. Just a gamer looking to move into a 3d experience. As I pointed out , there seems to be only one person on this thread telling anyone whether or not to buy a Z800 , and that is you. More than a dozen times on this forum alone. I won't question your motives cause it matters little to me. You want a review - that;s great. Sure - it's sensible. You've said it repeatedly. You've recommended that course of action over and over though nobody seems to have asked your guidance. I hope you see reviews soon and like what you hear. Until then , if you want to battle the evil forces of the black marketters and save those who would be lost without your opinions , great - have at it. I will admit that I do hope others purchase one causeit will be helpful to me to discuss settings etc and work out the kinks by way of discussion, but I don't really care one way or the other. In case you care you can tell your friend that my order number was a few dozen earlier than his , so I guess he'll here something about his order shortly. I sincerely hope it is a good product too. Can't wait to gbet home and open her up. Half life 2 - first mission. I'll start a new thread in a couple days perhaps and answer any questions I'm capable of about it, though I admit to being less of a 3d afficionado than the people here , so you may have to walk me through your questions - recommend settings - tell me what you want me to look for etc. Though I am waiting on a new GeForce card that i think will probably be helpful to the experience - I'll post my system specs etc. Big Pat - have you watched and 3d video on it - was there one included as demo, and what did you think? Guess I'll know soon enough . | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Make it 2. The Z800 (all setups with a tracker emulating a mouse) will make you sick when using on games that use the mouse to control the direction of movement. This is how it is if you still cannot see understand it. You have the hmd on. Your head turns left 90 degrees, but your body is still facing the front direction. Now, press the forward button. The visual tells you that you are moving left, but your unconscious mind is expecting to move forward (direction of the body is facing). Another scenario. You are play a racing game. Driving you shiny new car. You foot was firmly on the accelerator. Some pretty girls passed by, and you looked to right, and your car crashes on the side of the road killing the girls. You woke up trying to find out what just happened. Hahahaha. The solution is to slow down, to think about each move before you do it. However, that kills game play. Another solution is to have the game developer to adopt a seperate axi for head movement which I don't see it coming for another year or two. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
BoPrey I don't these HMD's are as bad as you think in the control scheme. You wear an HMD, now you boot up Half Life 2 in stereo 3D, the head tracker emulates mouse movement. You don't just turn your head you infact stand up and have the wires attached to your ceiling so there not dangling in front of you ready for you too fall over. Then instead of moving your head you can move your whole body 360 degrees and while your doing that you can also look up and down. Of course all this moving is going to move your gun in Half Life 2. You can get one of those 3D VR joysticks that you hold in one hand which has a D pad for movement and a trigger for fire. I have even heard you can run 2 in all games. one in your left hand for movement, ducking, opening doors and the other in the right hand with a trigger for firing, a weapon selection button and these controlers i think offer force feedback and are wireless. I will do some research. Last time i read you can pick up one for under 50 dollars. When you move forward your not getting sick, you just move forward on the controller and turn your head and body to the leeft 45 degrees while you continue pressing on the forward button and it will feel exactly as what you do in the real world. The only thing is in real life when you aim a gun you do that with your actual physical hands and not your body so yes if they created a 6DOF tracker in the HMD and all PC games worked around 6DOF then that would be amazing, but i don't see that happening until there is a lot of demand for virtual reality and when peole get bored of how the movement correlates in games with these HMD's until then the gaming developers would probably look towards new ways of bringing movement to virtual reality and they will adopt to make games for 6DOF HMD's. Until then we have what i just described above. It won't make you sick but it will like you said slow down and make you think a bit. I don't think you will be able to play first person shooters on a hard setting but more likely on easy and have auto aim enabled if the game has that option, as aiming with your head or body is very difficult to get perfect shots even in multiplayer. Maybe if these HMD's are really popular then people may fiddle with the game ini files in order to make enemy AI skill a little lower without you having to drop to an easy difficulty level while still keeping it very challenging. Anyway that's my take on all this | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
I agree with dvdbunny1. However, how many times do you think you can rotate before the HMD cable gets tangled? The odds are that you'll probably rotate one way as much as the other, but every now and then you encounter things in games like spiral staircases or need to spin and fire a lot at multiple targets. I suppose you can use a directional pad to aid in doing fast rotations but that will definitely feel a little weird and take some practice with the coordination between head and directional pad movement control. Better would be to have "brushes" on the HMD cable like many phone cords have so they can automatically untangle. Does anyone know what kind of cable the HMD uses, how many wires, etc? Perhaps such a brush connector/cylinder can be connected in series to prevent tangle? | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
They either use SVGA or DVI interface. Some HMDs have a video interface as well | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
The emagin HMD uses a single VGA cable that connects to the visor's control box and the other end connects to the VGA port of your graphics card, if you have DVD then you can use DVD to VGA adapter that comes with most graphics cards. btw these cables are thin and very long so i wouldn't be worried about any tangling, you can spin probably 6 times (maybe more) to the left or right until it starts to tangle, and that's more than enough for these spiral staircases. As you only spin about 4 times on these staircases, well that's like the biggest amount of spiral staircases that i have seen in a game. I was searching VR controllers, and it looks like i have found the ultimate one but i hate the price $495 that's right that much for just a controller. this emagin HMD is $900 and you have to pay that amount for just a controller, it's crazy what they charge. Anyway i found this gun that you hold in either your left or right hand. I will try to explain, let's say your playing Far Cry on the emagin HMD. Now of course turning your head and body moves the aim of your gun in the game as explained in my previous post. Well i said this would be difficult for gaming, so this gun controller allows you to stop movement of your headtracking from the HMD and you can move this gun to now aim and because you are holding it an it has a trigger it makes for incredible accuracy for shooting enemies just like in real life and the 2 added bonuses 1 is this controller is wireless just doesn't feature force feedback for that price which is a real shame. But the 2nd bonus is that this simulates actual real life because in real life you do not move your head to aim a gun your head doesn't move to fire, lets say a pistol so when you move that gun your view will change inside the HMD, now after lets say you want to go back to moving around 360 degrees with the headtracker well then there is a button on the gun to diasble the headtracking in realtime and then when antoher point comes in the game you can switch the gun tracking back on and continue shooting. So this is the coolest setup, now of course you still need another controller for your left hand and i found the best one again which i think is wireless and costs 50 dollars and that will control all the movement and other control layouts you can map to the controller. Well that's cool so check out links here and i have emailed the company asking about these devices for more information on them, they will probably get back to me in a few days. check the links out here VR Gun http://www.cwonline.com/store/view_product.asp?Product=1225 other controllers http://www.cwonline.com/store/view_product.asp?Product=1209 http://www.cwonline.com/store/view_product.asp?Product=1179 movement controller http://www.cwonline.com/store/view_product.asp?Product=1107 | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
oops i gave wrong information on cable connection, i mean if you have DVI port on your graphics card then you need DVI to VGA adapter | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
You got to be nuts to use anyone of those linked. I eval all of them before I bought the InterTrax2. Even then, InterTrax has its own problems. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Anyone interested in a 2 DOF mouse. Check this out. It is mouse that does not need to rest on any surface. I have one too. http://www.gyration.com/products.htm | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
Personally, I just plan to use a tether from above for the HMD cables like dvdbunny1 described then hold my wireless Saitek P3000 gamepad in my hands for movement/weapons, etc. I don't think I would like my view moving independently from my head and I don't mind aiming with my head either... I think of it like the Predator with his shoulder mounted gun and targeting visor ;) | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Annonymous its good to see new people posting on this board. Advice here is offered freely as this is an enthusiasts board full of people like BOPrey and others who have dropped $1000s of dollars on this sort of technology. We have been here before so many times over the years, each time to be disappointed. We just don't want other people to feel the same. This is just another product to us. We want it to work but we know all the problems that other attempts at this have tried and failed. If you want to spend your money (as we have in the past) on an untried product then again that is up to you. The sensible thing is to wait for the real reviews to come in from credible revew sites and magazines. You can complain that we are telling people not to buy it and we are for the moment and for good reasons. Don't worry though about being rude to anyone here. We've seen it all before. Better still when you need to get games and videos to work (as you will have as it is not straight forward) we'll be here to help and offer advice. For instance HL2 does not work in Stereo3d without some tweaking drop us a line if you wnat to know how. By the way the guy with order number 11XX ordered his at the begining of May so you must have been very enthusiastic to have ordered before then. Let us know how it all works but take note of BOPreys post above about issues with immersion. The devil is always in the detail. Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Unclebob, your friend and I should get ours at similar times, my order number is just 2 away from your friends (#1106) so you'll be a good guide to know when mine should be on its way all the way over here... (UK) Ben | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Ben As soon as I find out I'll post here. Don't mean to down your purchase, niether does BOPrey so any help you need just post it here. BOPrey has a LOT of experience in HMDs and Head Tracking Devices and is a regular poster here and on other boards, always helpful and always gives good constructive advice. All the best Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Ben keep your hopes up this is from the Emagine investors board some one got one and is playing around. http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=1601028323&tid=ema&sid=1601028323&mid=80545&thr=80545&cur=80545&dir=d Not a real review but its interesting never the less. Follow the whole thread for conflicts between mouse and head tracking (recentering)... Unclebob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Well, sounds quite positive so far! he hasn't said hes disappointed or anything.. I'm feeling hopeful! Ben | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
heres some more info.. http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=1601028323&tid=ema&sid=1601028323&mid=80745&thr=80691&cur=80691&dir=d Ben | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
dvdbunny1 is Stewart at Cyberworld. | ||
| David Goode Rating: N/A |
Damn! Just heard that mine isn't going to ship for another 2 weeks! (spoke to Tia in sales dept) Dave | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
What was your order number Dave? Ben | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
what i am not stewart from cyberworld, i think you will know that if you read all my posts from the last year. I know a little bit about these devices and i have nothing to do with cyberworld or any other company. You will find i am a honest guy and have contributed to these message boards in a totally unbiased way and anyone can tell you that. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
dvdbunny1 tell us more lies | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
haha what are you on about, is this some late april fools joke. Why don't you ask people like BOPrey, Uncle Bob and a load of others. Just because i post a few products links that are from cyberworlds website does'nt mean i work for them. If you honestly believe that then BOPrey works for gyration because he aswell posted a contoller made by them. I know for a fact he doesn't work for them. So please git it a rest and do your research before you go posting useless pieces of crap. I don't want this thread to turn into some ranting board where we fight, this is about sharing news on the z800 3d visor. oh and before i leave if you take a look at all my previous posts you would see that i have posted links to other products in the virtual reality sector and why would i do this if i worked for cwonline which i do not. People who work for companies don't go posting other peoples products on message boards onyl products that they make. So please stop this juvenille talk of me working for cwonline as this is simply untrue. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
spelling problem in previous post, i don't mean git but i mean please give it a rest. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
More lies | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
whateva | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Let's just stop the flaming, would you. You guys are wasting my screen space. I like to see all product info and make up my own mind. I don't rely on reviews as most of the time the reviewers' expectation is different from mine. HMD industry as whole, still has a very very way to go. Most of it has to do with other tech. The "in your face" display is just a very small part of the vr equation. So keep your expectation low even your soon to arrived HMD works as advertised. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
A little bit too defensive dvdbunny1. I am now sure you are Stewart at cybercrap. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
what a retard, i have a life but you get a life | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Ben, Order Number: 41672483. I presume that doesn't mean they've sold 41 million units! Dave | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
hmm, maybe they've changed the order number system, mine was a small number (1106). Did you pre-order yours Dave? Ben | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>> >> Ben, >> >>Order Number: 41672483. I presume that doesn't mean >>they've sold 41 million units! >> >>Dave >> Mine is 41672499. I ordered on July 9. Bob | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Ah, I ordered on 6th June.. I think mine could have been the 1106th unit ordered (my order number), now they've added 4 digits to the front for whatever reason, so maybe Bobs is the 2499th unit to be sold? just a guess. Ben | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
OK. who is that anonymous posting generic messages to intentionly drop this thread to the bottom of the page? We were just having so much fun here!! Admin, Can you implement a robot blocker here? | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
Personally, I wouldn't mind having to register to use this site. Anonymous posting has always bugged me. Anyways, still no Z800 reviews? | ||
| Duane Rating: N/A |
Just trying to move this one back where it belongs... on top. | ||
| Duane Rating: N/A |
test | ||
| laketittykaka Rating: N/A |
where the fuck are the reviews | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
The best way for EMagine to sell this thing is have small booths in stores (e.g. EB games, GameStops, etc). Have a machine with the top 10 or 50 games installed, and man that place. Well, if the cost is an issue, charge 2 to 5 bucks for people to play. This is exactly how new food products are getting their way into the market. EMagine might even be able to make a tiny profit after paying to stores for space, and that's with free advertising. Then again, if the convertion rate (number of people bought the product vs number of people tried) is low, that says something about the product too and allows EMagine to reposition quickly. What are they going to lose. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
I noticed yesterday that this thread was hard to find as it dropped really far down to somewhere near the middle of this board '3D News - announce and discuss new products & services here' and now this thread is back at the top. Can someone also bring back to the top the thread i made for posting reviews of the 3d visor. As this is crucial for good reviews. thanks | ||
| Patrick M. Rating: N/A |
On one of the EMagine threads, somebody mentioned Daeyang's use of the same LED panels that the Z800 has... http://www.daeyangenc.com/products/near/fmd.asp It should be noted that the Daeyang FMD does not advertise head-tracking. They do, however, boast (honestly or otherwise) a slightly larger FOV than the Z800. And their other products are really damned cool looking, but that's neither here nor there. I'd also like to mention that I'm kick-kick-kicking myself for neglecting to check this thing out at not only the CES but the E3 as well. It's so poorly advertised that I just don't know to look for it. Next CES is not too far away, though... I'll look for it specifically now, and I hope dearly that they'll have something akin to 1200x720 for their next generation. Yes, hey, let's make that part of the wishlist. Hey, EMagine guys? If you're reading, I'm personally still holding out for a 60 degree FOV with wide-aspect HDTV-friendly panels. You know how Microsoft is making a big deal about the next generation of consoles doing 1280x720 as a standard? Yeah. It's a standard now. Still, lightweight 8x6 with smooth LED panels and snappy headtracking is great. It's better than anything else in the price range, and even double or triple the price range. I hope the fact that they're struggling to accomodate all of the orders is a very good sign for them. Perhaps they'll have enough capital to actually send demo units to the press for their next generation of headsets. More publicity means more sales. -Patrick M. | ||
| Unclebob Rating: N/A |
http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=1601028323&tid=ema&sid=1601028323&mid=84018 Looks like they have sold a 1000 in August and are looking at 2000+ in September. Seems to be very low volume. Perhaps thats why there are no reviews out there except for those few that have got one of the first ones. Unclebob | ||
| LM Rating: N/A |
Hi All..., please excuse my (lack off) english writing skills. I'm thinking of ordering the Z800 - that is - after atleast a couple of well known sites have reviewed it (which to be honest I don't see will happen any time soon) Anyway, can someone tell me.. will the the z800 be worth my money? I must say, I'm -not- a gamer, so I couldn't care less for the stereo/headtracking.. I purely want it for watching dvds/movies/tv on a huge screen. I've considered buying a beamer/projector, but I have very little room to project on (I dont have any empty walls) so that's why I think a HMD like the z800 may be just what I need. Again, I'm very new to HDM/VR in general, although I have been googling for several days now comparing a dozen of different products, I can't really make up my mind. Can someone help me out? Is the z800 just what I need? Or should I settle for a cheaper model? (3001 AD, i glasses) My only usage will be watching dvd movies and such. I hope someone can answer me. Thank you for your time. Please do excuse my horrible grammar. -LM | ||
| WY Rating: N/A |
I have used reading glasses (1.25) to help draw your vision into the screen. Since glasses will fit under the Z800 this may help with immersion and perceived field of veiw. | ||
| jorge Rating: N/A |
For dvdbunny1: I´ve read the setup you are planning to do with the z800, vrz and ciberstick. It is the same i was looking for days ago, but out i have to warning you about some points: the Vrz is just a water gun with a giromouse built-in. You can buy it online or make it yourself with this guide (made by the creator of the virtual reality zapper vrz) http://www.geocities.com/mellott124/index.htm or buy ir to him (250$ he says in his price list , but i dont know if it is labor only or everything). BUT: Althought your plan looks perfect, i own a gyration pro mouse, its the same gyroscopic technology, so i know how it performs. It is wondeful device, extremely accuratte once you have some practice with it, long radius wireless range (dont mind walls, its RF). But each time you use it, you will be forced to Re-center the mouse pointer because if not, your centered "point of view" (the HDM's) will be different. So you'll end with a offset (you could find you looking in front of you at real life but looking at the skys at game. About the ciberstick, its usb powered, not wireless. You can take off its base, but there's a cable attached to it. So you will mess with two cables at least (in my case, there are 3, because i want to buy speedlink medusa 5.1 headset or audio fx from edimensional Hope this helps Jorge | ||
| MD Rating: N/A |
There is definitely a huge need of games suporting independent weapon/aiming and head-movement!!! Actually you can look around when driving vehicles in Battlefield-2, but you still can't move your head away from your weapon? Someone large in the Industry, like sony or microsft should fix that in their nextgen games;) | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
I must agree. At least, could be an option to separate aiming from view point at user's will. | ||
| stoy Rating: N/A |
I agree as well, unfortunatly the headtracking/HMD market is so incredibly small right now, from a developers standpoint they would probably never take the time to add a feature like this. Heres to hoping the emagin can jumpstart the stereo3d/headtracking user numbers with the z800 - only when the userbase of these technologies is large enough will we see games developed with stereo3d and headtracking in mind. I know it will happen, just a question of when technology/prices can allow someone to make a very immersive HMD or 3d display device that is sub $300, emagin seems to have made a breakthrough though so heres hoping that continues. | ||
| kudawg Rating: N/A |
Well why would you want the Gun just to be used as a mouse?? How will you move around. Jorge try to take the time to make one and see how you do. Show some pictures when your done. It housing was for a water gun, I gave him the idea of a watergun. I bought his first one which was an mp5 replica, very small and more work. Here is a real good URG... That I built almost 2 years ago.  | ||
| kudawg Rating: N/A |
Well why would you want the Gun just to be used as a mouse?? How will you move around. Jorge try to take the time to make one and see how you do. Show some pictures when your done. It housing was for a water gun, I gave him the idea of a watergun. I bought his first one which was an mp5 replica, very small and more work. Here is a real good URG... That I built almost 2 years ago.  Disreguard the cable, I used a DB25 cable that went to a box to allow keyboard control with an extra keyboard connected as well, for some reason these older pic's are small enough to post pic, my new ones are over 500kb. Kev no hard feeling man, You do good work. | ||
| KuDawg Rating: N/A |
Wow that picture is BIG, if anyone else wants some newer Pic's just e-mail me kuchelsea35@yahoo.com | ||
| Ku Rating: N/A |
Let me try these pic's | ||
| bob ladrach (Ladrach) New member Username: Ladrach Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2006 Rating: N/A |
2 Dof mouse look emulation always has the orientation off center issue. You can either make the vertical response slow and lose fidelity where you feel you're dragging your view around, or you can make it sensitive and vertically gimble lock your head to re-center. I like a sensitive response but for new comers it may have them looking at the ceiling quickly. Saw some comparisons with Z800 and Trimersion. Here's an update since E3. The Trimerison HMD at E3 2006 was uncomfortable. The unit has been redesigned with a much more comfortable top support. The back side has lost the welders knob in favor of pull thru velcro. The LCDs have been upgraded from 320 x 240 to 640 x 480. The unit is much smaller and lighter weight. Granted the Z800 has a much nicer picture and a wide FOV, but in many aspects the Trimersion is targeting a different product. We're focused on the FPS market with compatibility on PC/Mac with USB (keyboard/mouse emulation) and Xbox, Playstation and Cube with game controller emulation. We're still trying to find the perfect way to send video wirelessly and do get interference from 802.11 wifi in close proximity. Otherwise you get a nice picture with good sound and 2D tracking while standing up to 10 feet from the base station. The trackers on the Z800 I recently heard have more capability with an SDK. We've always tried to make setup as simple as possible. As a hardware solution with no drivers, this defines our options. The tracker matches the sampling rate of the mouse or joystick as close as we can. On the gun controller, we've added an analog joystick flip so if head tracking is done with the opposite side, you can flip a switch and it will work with the other stick. The gun also has programmable triggers, so your favorite primary and secondary commands can be assigned. We've also reduced the price. No 360, Wii or P3 compatibility yet. It isn't a perfect solution to the ultimate VR experience, but when you've had some time to feel comfortable with the controls it can be fun and very immersive. I'm still waiting for the potential of this type of technology to be fully realized. I believe we're right on the edge of amazing breakthroughs.  |
