| Author | Message | ||
     dvdbunny1 Rating: |
anyone that is using a Nvidia graphics card and the emagin z800 3d visor please post honest reviews. the Z800 has a native resolution of 800 x 600 so you will be all testing games at that resolution. But please state what level of anisotropic filtering (AF) and full scene anti aliasing (FSAA) you are using. Anyone with a Nvidia 7800GTX and a fast processor would be best to run all games in 800 X 600 8X FSAA 16X AF Stereo 3D using Nvidia stereovision forceware drivers. If you have two 6800 Ultra running in SLI then use the same specs as above. If you are using a 6600 GT then do the same but use 8x AF and 4X FSAA. With the AF and FSAA in games at 800 x 600 you will notice a huge improvement in graphical quality as everything will look very sharp, and walls and corners with have clean edges that really shine. coupled with stereo 3d and your visor will bring about a very immersive gaming experience. Please only post a review of some games if you have the visor. I don't want this thread crammed with crap, only reviews. Good games to test in stereo 3D is Far Cry, Unreal Tournament 2003 and 2004, Doom 3, Painkiller, Half-Life 2 and America's Army, No limits roller coaster 3D, Disneys Ultimate ride, commanche 4 even though it's old it's still amazing. and many others. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
Sorry a little mistake on what i wrote about SLI and Stereo 3D. Nvidia are saying the follwoing on their websites download page of the stereo drivers. 'Currently SLI does not work when using 3D Stereo drivers.' Please some good reviews | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Good to have this thread for reviews. But I would prefer reviews that focus on the Z800 itself and not on the games. That is, things like these: -Image resolution and sharpness, contrast and brightness, quality of blacks, color reproduction -Optical distortions and focus/bluriness. -Perceived difference of OLED with LCD. -Is the FOV acceptable? -Pixels too visible? -Is the frame-rate acceptable (30fps per eye in stereo)? -Image delay (does it react to your actions like shooting immediately?) -Stereo perception/immersion quality (having in mind this is not all responsibility of the Z800) -Tracker precision, update rate and lag Well, these things can be put in the context of a game, but we're more interested in the visor. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
Yes good point i think i was getting into writing my thread that i forgot to mention some of the more important factors than just the specs of games. Let the reviews come | ||
| David Goode Rating: N/A |
Did you guys receive a demo disc of any sort with your z800? can you watch stereo 3D movies? Dave | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
only reviews in here please post those questions in this thread http://www.stereo3d.com/discus/messages/24/3352.html?1121787776 | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
The emagin HMD isn't even available as of yet???? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Take a look at this slide show from PC magazine. http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205,l=&s=25696&a=155812&po=9,00.asp | ||
| zsteve Rating: N/A |
Anyone experts here get one to review? | ||
| Fact Rating: N/A |
Yeah more stupid cross posting and self promoting from Stewart (dvdbunny1) at cybercrap. Not only do you cross post but you make up names and talk to yourself too. Get back on your meds. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
what are you talking about. Your crazy | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
Hi All, You can see my review here... http://raeldor.blogspot.com Please post any comments or questions, and I will do my best to update the review to answer as many as I can. Regards | ||
| albusD Rating: N/A |
Ray Price , Thanks - so you think the resolution is okay at SVGA? Did you have any trouble with peripheral clarity - like reading text say at the bottom of the screen or off to the sides - like cockpit controls etc? Do you have Painkilller - if so I'd like to hear your thoughts on that experience too. I can't wait to try the WOW experience you decribe. Another reviewer at Yahoo! claims that the unit does have a microphone built in and that he used it and it worked but he was told he sounded a bit tinny. Could you confirm this? Any trouble with comfort of the Visor? Stays on well? Is comfortable? Any eye fatigue? How long did you have it on at one time. Have you watched any 3D videos on it? Could you tell us your system specs too? Thanks again Ray Price. | ||
| John Andre Rating: N/A |
Interesting  Probably still a bit out of my pricerange, but interesting indeed. Have your tried using Naturalpoints solution with FS 2004? I guess that would work pretty well? | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
Hi albusD, Resolution looks great I think. The benefit of larger resolution would be in a wider FOV rather than more pixels per inch. When the visor is in place correctly the text at the outside is ok for reading, but I wouldn't want to read text with this for extended periods, I think they are much better suited to gaming as reading text on a screen that big means a lot of eye movement which will become strenuous. That's interesting about the microphone, I will try it out when I get a chance. Visors stays good. It's pretty comfortable, the straps are adjustable but you definitely know you have it on. I haven't noticed much eye fatigue, in fact I was just mentioning to someone yesterday how I thought the 3D effect was much less strenuous on the eyes than shutter glasses. I haven't watched any 3D videos. Not really my thing, but I can try it if you have a link to a 3d player and some media. My system specs are... Pentium 4 3.4Ghz 1GB RAM GeForce 6800GT Audigy Soundcard Regards | ||
| Noel Rating: N/A |
So it is not good enough for text based applications? More of a simple gaming device? | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
I think a monitor is still the preferable display method for text based applications. The exception to use is if you are dealing with sensitive materials and don't want people reading over your shoulder (airplane). A monitor is higher resolution, and is clearer since you are not looking through a magnifying lense to view it (no matter how good the lense is, it's never going to be as clear as looking directly at an LCD screen). I wouldn't undermine it as a 'simple gaming device'. Use of this headset with simulator applications such as flight an driving are extremely realistic compared with viewing on a monitor and it could easily be used as part of a training setup for such. | ||
| Michael B Rating: N/A |
Excellent finally someone has recieved a unit.. cool and thanx for the feedback.. your Blog is awesome, I'm sure you'll recieve loads of hits overthe next few days Now onto one important issue. I'd like to know if at all the z800 would be benificial when using 3d design Applications such as Maya or 3d Studio Max ? If there is anyone out there with a z800 and has Max or Maya could you please give it a run and let us know how well itperforms and what sort of advantage if any does the head tracker and the use of a hmd contributee when desinging 3D scenes ?? Michael | ||
| Glen Murphy Rating: N/A |
You mention the i-glasses in your review - how does it compare? I own the i-glasses SVGA 3D and found them pretty lacklustre. | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
I haven't tried the i-Glasses 3D personally, but judging by the specs the image size should be larger (i-Glasses is 27 degrees, Z800 is 40 degres). I have tried the Sony PLM, the Cy-Visor and the Olympus Eye-Trek and can say that this unit is definitely superior in image quality, color and sharpness to all three. | ||
| zsteve Rating: N/A |
I have a Z800 and can't imagine working or playing with a fov that's 30% less. Fourty degrees should be the minimum starting point with 60 or 80 degree being optimum. | ||
| Andy W Rating: N/A |
Ray, you mentioned that you had to move the optics closer to your eyes to get a view that wasn't distorted around the edges. Given this, do you think it would be easy to wear spectacles (eyeglasses) under the Z800? | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
Hard for me to comment on spectacles, as I don't wear them. I think it should be ok, but it may mean getting the distance between the two eye pieces pretty precise. I would try it out first. In respect to field of view, I have posted some comparisons between the major headsets at... http://raeldor.blogspot.com I have calculated the virtual screen size at the same distances using the FOV, as it's hard to compare the models normally since every manufacturer uses different distances. I would agree though that a 40 degree FOV would be minimum. I like the Z800, but couldn't imagine using anything with a smaller FOV and enjoying it as much. Obviously this is the first consumer product, but if it sells well I don't see why they wouldn't do a higher rez/fov version at a later date with newer technology as they develop it. We are probably at least a couple of years away from that yet though. | ||
| Walter Marton Rating: N/A |
Ray, thank you very much for your review! Can you please tell me, which are the SVGA-refresh rates the Z800 can cope with? Which is the minimum to get satisfactory moving picture? If the manual/spec is a pdf, could you please post it to me? thanks! | ||
| zsteve Rating: N/A |
It's 60Hz I believe but since it is rapid fire OLED using non field sequential color and they store under each individual pixel the color data there is nothing like it. You have to see it for yourself. No flicker or smear. | ||
| Noel Rating: N/A |
I tried one and the view did smear when I turned my head. | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
Andy W, I tried the z800 with my glasses on and there was no distortion and the Z fit easily over my glasses. I wear contacts most of the time, so I just wore the Z for a few minutes with my glasses on to try it out. Mostly I was curious to see how the image would look without my glasses. It is so counter intuitive, but if you are nearsighted everything looks burry even though the screen is just a couple inches from your eye. So you need corrective lenses as if the image was real and coming from far away. Several friends also tried my z800 on with their glasses and didn't mention any distortions or discomfort either (and they have some pretty thick glasses). bigpat | ||
| Andy W Rating: N/A |
Thanks Ray and Bigpat. I knew I'd have to wear my specs, so this is a big deal for me. | ||
| Mick Rating: N/A |
so does it smear or doesn't it smear ? Seems to be 2 conflicting stories ... | ||
| Ben Rating: N/A |
Well, I've just got mine tonight! and I have no idea what he means by smear? seems perfect to me! I'll have to have a proper play with them when I have time tomorrow. Ben | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
I don't think it smears. Obviously if you are using the mouse to move and the scene travels past your eye quickly it will appear to blur because your eye can't track that fast. When you use head tracking I don't see any visible smear. | ||
| Andy W Rating: N/A |
I think Mick was referring to the distortion away from the centre that you, Ray, mentioned in your review ("What I mean by this is that the clarity in the centre of the optics is very good, but even just a little from the centre there is some distortion of the image. Adjusting the inter-pupilary distance (which is done by just moving each eye’s display individually) helped a lot with this, as did moving the displays physically closer to my eye."), and which bigpat and Ben didn't see. So I think his question was meant to be "Does it distort or doesn't it?" Please correct me if I'm wrong, Mick. | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Ray, how are you doing with the Z800? Any problems yet? After you told us about FS2004 only having the 2 DOF's I ordered the TrackIR 3 Pro with the vector expansion clip. The trackIR gets delivered on Monday but who knows how long it will be before the Z800 arrives. Somewhere, somehow I read that the head tracking required the Z800 by plugged in to a USB port. They have a connector for external power and I was wondering if anyone knew if I used the external power and not the USB, would this way stop the head tracking when I'm using the TrackIR? boB | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
Haven't had as much chance to play with it as I would have liked, for personal reasons. It's not that it has 2DOF, I believe the headtracker has 3DOF, but the software only does mouse emulation, and FS2004 doesn't allow mouse look. It needs a joystick emulator in the software drivers. I don't know how TrackIR works, but the Z800 can be plugged into the USB and the tracking enabled and disabled by the installed software, so it shouldn't interfere with other drivers. Just make sure TrackIR has joystick emulation driver. | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
I just read here that the microdisplays in the Z800 are really 852x600, SVGA+ as opposed to just SVGA. http://www.emagin.com/WFO5.htm This should boost the FOV from 40 to 42 degrees. Can anyone with a Z800 try creating a custom res of 852x600 for their game and seeing if that boosts the FOV? You can also create a custom res for your desktop using the nVidia drivers but it will have to be 848x600 since nVidia requires it to be a multiple of 8. I'm excited to hear the results! | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
Ok, maybe I'm wrong, perhaps eMagin put regular SVGA microdisplays in the Z800, but it still might be worth a shot... | ||
| Ben Rating: N/A |
I've found with mine there are a number of dead pixels. I counted 11 on the left side and a few on the right. The pixels are so small that they're not noticeable though, like the size of a small pin prick. It doesn't bother me however, and I'm quite picky. Ben | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
I tried the 848x600 and it didn't display on the Z800. Could be the video processor doesn't support that resolution? | ||
| Ray Price Rating: N/A |
Actually, looking at their website, it says they make... SVGA+ and SVGA 3D Microdisplays So the 3D version is not SVGA+? | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
Apparently the Z800 is not SVGA+. Pity they couldn't figure out a way to put their other microdisplay in it  . | ||
| zsteve Rating: N/A |
they use the svga+ version for running video at VGA resolution in 16:9 widescreen format | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
"What I mean by this is that the clarity in the centre of the optics is very good, but even just a little from the centre there is some distortion of the image. Adjusting the inter-pupilary distance (which is done by just moving each eye’s display individually) helped a lot with this, as did moving the displays physically closer to my eye."), and which bigpat and Ben didn't see. I saw what he was talking about, when you first put on the z800 the edges look distorted, but you just move the display closer to your face until the distortion goes away. The "sweet spot" for me was very close to my face with each of the displays two clicks off center. Now that Ben mentions it, I am able to see what appear to be dead pixels (or partial pixels) on each of the displays. More easily visible on a white background with one eye closed. About the same as Ben's 11 on the left side and 8 on the right, but aren't really noticible during normal use. bigpat | ||
| BigV Rating: N/A |
I am very confused. emagin is now selling these??? | ||
| AlbusD Rating: N/A |
eMagin is the manufacturer , and as far as I know - the only seller of the Z800 visor. What are you confused about bigV? Ray Price - have you had any chance to test out the built in microphone yet? Thanks you. | ||
| Andy W Rating: N/A |
Does anybody know (for certain) what emagin's warranty policy is as regards dead pixels? | ||
| Acidtech Rating: N/A |
According to the faq they have a satisfaction gaurantee. You can return the visor(paying a restocking fee and shipping within 30? days. Its on the faq on the 3dvisor website. Nothing specifically about dead pixels though. | ||
| EnricoFermi Rating: N/A |
Contact techsupport@emagin.com with any questions. Also visit their warranty page for more details. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
So can the Z800 take a Rez. higher than it's native Rez. of 800*600 like 1024*768 or higher and auto scale it down to it's native rez. of 800*600 ? I think the I-glasses could do that, can the Z800 ? | ||
| zsteve Rating: N/A |
Yes, I'm typing this right now while wearing my Z800 and the PC display resolution is set for 1024X768 so it downscales. But when running a game in stereo the PC display settings have to be set at 800x600. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Thank's for the reply zsteve. Let me ask all you that have the Z800 a question. If you could only buy one of the following for gaming,which would it be. A. BIG LCD MONITOR 20'-24" or bigger B. DLP or LCD PROJECTOR or C. Z800 HMD So for gaming which one of these three would it be ? | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
hi zsteve, can you tell me, do i have to have pc settings set to 800x600 cant i leave my pc settings at 1600x1200 but in my chosenh game have the settings set to 800x600? | ||
| Mick Rating: N/A |
Well I guess being in a z800 thread you'll be getting a unamimous vote for Z800 but in reality I guess most users would definately say they really miss their viewmasters especially with the complimentary herbie goes bananas discs.(they rock) Oh God.. I'm slowly going insane having to save every penny to finally buy a z800 visor Aaahhhh ! Hhmmm.. be patient young Jedi, your time will come.. soon within your reach, the z800 surely be it will .. | ||
| Mick Rating: N/A |
So zsteve, how's it going ? is it really a big leap forward in regards to VR technology targetting the comsumer market? How do you feel in there, if at all you feel "in there" or is more like a large screen. Has anyone tried playing with blinkers attached to the sides to shut out the peripherial side light ?? or is that out of the question ... | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Yes mike I see your point. Bad wording on my part. so I guess what I should ask, is this . Now that you people have the X800 and had some time to use it, do you still think it's better than buying a Real BIG LCD monitor or a projector setup ? | ||
| zsteve Rating: N/A |
-Water1 It depends you know. If the game works well in stereo and you enjoy gaming with a hmd then it works well. I'm finding with a new game I'll use the direct view monitor for a while until I build up speed and am comfortable with the controls before switching over. I don't view the HMD as a replacement for a monitor, that's me. -dvdbunny Yes, that's exactly what I am doing. It seems do downscale in non-stereo nicely but needs to be set at 800x600 in the game setting or in the nvidia control panel for stereo. -Mick It reminds me of sitting in a theater maybe 20th row. It's a big screen and you can see the sides of the hall. I wouldn't call it immersive but it gets close if you turn out the lights and crank up the volume when viewing, sometimes content can also add more to immersion than blocking out stimuli. I will try to fashion some blinders on the sides to check out. Overall I like the z800. I haven't seen any motion blur or flicker. The optics could be improved but maybe that's a function of cost. Ultimately I'd like to see an even larger FOV,SXGA and a HT for under $1000. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Thank's for the reply zsteve. I can see how the HMD would be better for some Games then others and not for all the computer work someone would have to do in a day. I Still bet when that special game or games call for your new HMD your having a blast with it. So let me ask you guys to try some games out and tell us what you think. I bet Deus Ex(The first one)and Thief (The new one or any of them) whould be cool as h*ll on the new HMD. Try some differant games out and tell us about the ones you like and don't like playing on the HMD...Thanks | ||
| Ben Rating: N/A |
My Nvidia card decided to fry itself 2 days after I got my Z800! talk about timing.. Hopefully I'll be able to give some feedback when I get my card returned. Ben | ||
| Concerned Buyer Rating: N/A |
Dear Readers and 3d visor fans, I have aquired a Z800 and I must advise you all that it is not quite the product I expected it to be. It suffers from proto-typis. A disease where the first incarnation of a product has notable deficiencies. Shareholders be warned. The Good points. Packaging and presentation is quality. The OLED display screen is first class (optics are another matter). Gamers with fast moving game images should be 'in the game' and not be too distracted by some of the static visual deficiencies. The Bad points Very difficult if not impossible to see each display clearly in its entirety. Part of each screen image can be made to focus extremely well but the other part is blurry. I blame the optical design for the distorted images. This makes focussing uncomfortable and annoying. There is no sweet spot. Forget a larger field of view version with the current optical design. Ideally, quality optics should have been made with glass not plastic. The oled screen is mounted close to something on the right of each panel and it is obvious that some kind of ledge is reflecting light - adding a little bit of glare. The general optical focus of each screen is definitely NOT 12 feet. I would say it is 12 inches without exaggeration. It is difficult to maintain such a close in focus without eyes blurring in a minute or two. The focal depth needs to be about 3 feet at least. The lenses are horizontally adjustible for eye separation. The lenses ratchet in fixed increments for eye separation adjustment. The problem exists with the sensitivity of the lens optics and the centreing with the eyes. If you are half a notch out, you will notice it. Blame the optics yet again. A major annoyance is the pinching at the base of the nose with the corners of the lens units. Emagin says the visor is not to rest on the nose, yet the lenses should be as close to the eye as possible. A clear problem here. The visor does require blinkers because ambient light comes streaming through the sides, and fades the contrast (way down from the quoted 200 to 1 ratio). It is also distracting from the visual content. Another bummer is the need for the screen to switch off every five or so minutes to prevent 'burn-in' of static images. Surely a screen saver could be implemented, or even a gradual fade in or out so you dont think the sudden blackness is an electrical fault or cable coming loose. The supplied video cable from the computer to the box need to be much longer. I dont like reaching way across my desk to touch the nearly indistinguishable black buttons on the front. I use the emagin junction box in tower mode. It would be good to stick the box on the side of the computer and not have the USB cable coming out from the high side of the box as well. In other words put the heavy stuff and connectors to one side and the loose bits on the other - doh. In summary, my emagin unit is still grounded as the install software doesnt seem to be quite right. I have not speculated on performance aspects of the unit till I get it running and tuned in. However I must say I am very disappointed about some significant shortcomings in the hardware. Not good enough Emagin. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Are the optics a (one-piece-hunk-O-plastic)that can't be removed, or does it look like people might be able to find a way to put better optics in the unit somehow ? | ||
| zsteve Rating: N/A |
I don't want to mess with the 90 day warranty so I haven't taken the casing off over the optics to have a look around. On their website they say that the display can be sealed to the optic. Not sure if they mean permanently or is it just some tiny screws that can be loosened. The .pdf that they have available there's a picture of the optic alone and what looks like a screw hole so it probably can be separated but don't know for sure. http://www.emagin.com/docs/WFO5.pdf | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
I still think for the money the Z800 sounds like a good deal. Before the Z800 you would have to buy a pair of I-glasses-3D and a head tracker, if you got a good tracker like the InterTrax 2 you would be close to $1,900 for Glasses and tracker. Also one reviewer said the tracker on the Z800 is close to as good as an InterTrax 2. We could go back to the days of a VFX3d for $1,800. So people with the Z800 keep posting your thoughts on it please....Thanks | ||
| AlbusD Rating: N/A |
Well well well... I have seen almost all positive reviews of this thing from people who actually own one, and I think that's good. So I was a little bit surprised when I started reading Mr. Concerned Consumer's review. I thought maybe I missed something , or could offer a helping hand. I thought it was odd that he would have trouble with the auto-refresh or lens adjustment since their covered thoroughly in manual, and the latter - to just about everone else's satisfaction it seems. I guess some people have odd shaped head/brows. Oh well. And the cable not being long enough , while true , hardly seesm like a big deal to mention in the review since you can buy one pretty much at the local 7-11 for a couple of dollars. Then I saw the pinch-nose comment and reread the post where he starts out "shareholders be warned!". That cleared it right up . Take your ulterior motives and go back to the Yahoo! Penny stock message board buddy. What a joke. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
I thought that "Concerned Buyer"'s review was a little one sided. Is that a long time PISSY POSTER writing a review ? Wonder if it's a real review or not ? I just want some good "real" information on the Z800, I'm thinking of buying a pair if I hear good thing's about them... | ||
| AlbusD Rating: N/A |
Then my advice is to wait for a major CE periodical or site to do a proper review water. You'd think that would be happening soon , but no onw has seen one as far as I know. | ||
| Andy W Rating: N/A |
The fact that Emagin didn't make sure they had review units out to magazines and reputable websites well before they started shipping does seem a little... odd. Were they afraid that there would be such demand that they couldn't keep up? Hmmm. Somehow I doubt it. Still, it's possible, I suppose. I'm certainly going to wait for a more authoritative review before I even consider buying - which, given that reviewers don't tend to buy the kit to review, and Emagin don't seem to be loaning the kit out, could take quite a while. | ||
| stereoboy Rating: N/A |
with no reputable reviews and it not being on the shevels of Best Buy or gamer stores the z800 is not worth the price. save your money for the next wave of low priced high rez autostereoscopic LCDs comming in early 2006. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
I think Ray Price gave a good review. Seem's like he gave a fair take on the Z800. | ||
| EnricoFermi Rating: N/A |
As a general rule LCD obsessed posters, "not at Best Buy", "this thing pinches the nose", and "it will not sell", are EMA stock obsessed bashers. There are also some other EMA investors here exaggerating their beliefs about how good this thing is, although I believe that is not quite as frequent. This isn't an extension of a stock message board. It is a stereovision review site for people who care about virtual reality, not investing. Concerned Buyer and stereoboy (at least this recent incarnation) are obviously most concerned about seeing this thing doesn't sell. It is pathetic. I appreciate the reviews, and have not yet purchased a Z800. I will continue to look for the legitimate posts. Overall, this device looks pretty good. | ||
| az Rating: N/A |
As far as I am aware (NVidia messageboard) the Nvidia 7800GTX does not have stereo drivers enabled yet so you need to use 6800 or 6600 series (or lower) instead. Could someone verify that? Either way I ordered the Z800, I hope it will arrive soon! | ||
| az Rating: N/A |
Fyi the link that I read this in is here: http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=6076 | ||
| AlbusD Rating: N/A |
az, I was told the same thing by a nVidia representative on the phone about 2 weeks ago. He could not tell me when drivers for that card would be enabled. He could not tell me how long it usually takes or how long it has taken with previous newcard downloads. He would not 'guess' if we were talking days weeks or months. I asked. He was very polite though. nVidia is a sore spot with me just in case you couldn't tell. Maybe someone else had better information. | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
Seems like "Concerned Buyer" comments are just an embelleshment of some of the real annoyances taken from other posts including mine and put together in one post. But a real buyer would spend the time to configure and read the manual for something they have just spent $900 on before posting a review on a web site. I really can't believe that anyone could be that picky and incapable of installing a software utility, a driver (for nvidia) and making a few adjustments. Funniest thing was the part about the z800 going to sleep every 5 minutes, which is a half truth and somewhat annoying but it only happens if you aren't running the emagin software which I had no trouble installing. I have left mine on for hours both on my head and on my desk with no problems. The optics are more than fine. The lense is plastic but it does the job well. The notches on the IP adjustment are close enough together that you will be able to find the focus and you shouldn't have to bring the lenses so far towards your face that it touches your nose. Though if you have a particularly big nose, and I mean big, perhaps you could use some padding or emagin could round those edges a bit more. My only concern about the lenses being plastic is scratch resistance. It would also be good to get more information from emagin to find out what type of plastic they are made from to get a better idea of how long they should last and if there would be any degradation from long term direct exposure to sunlight and/or heat. But as I am pretty abusive and have dropped them a few times already without any damage, so I can tell you the whole unit is very durable. The optical quality of the lenses themselves is good and clearly the shape is the result of much refinement. If you can't get a good focused non distorted image a few minutes after openning the box and plugging it in, then you are missing something. bigpat | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
bigpat, how do you like the head tracker ? Someone else thought it was as good as an InterTrax 2. What do you think of it? Have you used it in many games yet ? | ||
| Andy W Rating: N/A |
water1 wrote: "I think Ray Price gave a good review. Seems like he gave a fair take on the Z800." Yes, this is true. And bigpat's comments also seem knowledgeable and balanced. The trouble is that I don't know them personally, and their reputations or incomes don't depend on the quality of their reviews. I accept that you can get duff reviews from any reviewer, and some are worse than others. But I'm afraid that I'll always give more credence to a review in a commercially published magazine (or on a large website with a good reputation) than to a review on a bulletin board. | ||
| jad_333 Rating: N/A |
As I am an eMagin investor and not at all tech savy or a gamer, I read the comments here but don't post. I agree this is not the place to air investment issues. I just want to say that I was pleasantly suprised to see how quickly you smoked "Concerned Consumer" as a basher. He is most likely from the eMagin Yahoo message board. He is careful not to post his claims there, as to do so would expose him to legal action. This board does not require regiatration whereas Yahoo does. | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
water1, No drift and no noticable lag. The mouse emulation works as advertised with the emagin utility program. I didn't try the InterTrax 2 so I can't compare, but I can't see how it could be appreciably any more responsive. I still haven't gotten a chance to set myself up for playing from a standing position, so I haven't been doing much full 360 degree turning yet. But I did try it several times and I can turn around and around and always am back to the starting view when I return to my starting orientation. I did have to change the mouse sensitivity settings in HL2 to get it to track properly in that game, so some configuration may be required depending on how much you mucked around with the default mouse sensitivities before getting the visor. Both the emagin utility and the games themselves allow you to modify the mouse sensitivity so it is not difficult to calibrate. bigpat | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Thank's for the reply bigpat. Well it sound's like the Z800 has a clear display with a good field of view and tracking that work's. That's all I need from an HMD. I might have to get one soon. | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
bigpat I ordered a set a few weeks ago - how long did you have to wait from placing the order to having the kit in your hands? I've downgraded from my 7800 GTX to a 6800 in anticipation of the z800 arriving one day......I'm reliant on an email response from Customer Services as Emagin dont seem to like answering their phones..... | ||
| Dave Rating: N/A |
Hi Matt, I'm in the same boat. I did get through to Tia in sales after several attempts. She told me it would be two weeks, but that was three weeks ago! I've got the card and drivers set up. games installed and waiting.... Dave | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
Hey Matt, I had mine preordered at the end of May and got mine the second week of July a couple weeks after they had started shipping. I think it was the 15th of July or so. Not sure but maybe they are still working through pre orders and such. I spoke with Tia also when I was waiting for my order to be shipped, very nice and helpful, but she was given an estimate that was about a week sooner than it actually got out to me. bigpat | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>> Hey Matt, I had mine preordered at the end of May >>and got mine the second week of July a couple weeks >>after they had started shipping. I think it was the >>15th of July or so. Not sure but maybe they are >>still working through pre orders and such. >> >> >> Darn!!! I ordered mine on July 9. I hope to get it before Christmas. Keep posting the reviews, it doesn't matter for or against since I have already ordered the Z800. boB | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Yea, you people that have them please keep posting about what your doing with them. I like to hear you guys talk about the fun your having. | ||
| zsteve Rating: N/A |
Anyone know the optimal settings for running HL2. I am running forceware 71.89. Should I use a different driver version to improve results? If so anywhere I can find the lower versions? | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
I received an email this morning that told me my Z800 will be shipped on or about Aug 16. My Order Number is: 41672483, for anyone still waiting. I ordered on Jul 9th boB | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Now that I have a shipping date I have gone back through some of the messages to see what I need to do to use the Z800 to it's full potential. I have a nVidea card with version 71.89 also. To get stereo effects in FS 2004, do I need to change driver versions? akita77 | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
For any of you guys chasing your orders I'd suggest contacting: Seonhui Kaye Customer Support Coordinator eMagin Corporation Tel) 425 882 7878 ext. 225 Fax) 425 882 7373 mailto:skaye@emagin.com Tia Wiser must be higher up the chain and takes an age to respond. Seonhui wrote back to me within 10 mins of me sending her an email. Just what you want when you are buying from the UK and still have another $180 VAT to pay before I even get to plug it in!!! NVIDIA have also written back me to state that the 7800 GTX will not work with the approved 71.89 Stereo drivers...looks like I'll be keeping my 6800 installed. Come on NVIDIA get into gear and release some drivers!!! | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Hi Matt, Did Nvidia say the driver's are in the work's but will just take a bit longer or are they just not going to be supporting 3D for the 7800 and later line of card's ? | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Wait a minute are these new stereo driver's that will work with the 7800 line ? Look's like they came out today 8-11-2005 http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1153 | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Look's like the wait is over say's they are for the G-7800 line of card's. Here is the Nvidia link. http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dstereo_77.77 | ||
| Az Rating: N/A |
Hi Matt, when you have to pay the VAT (or the equivalent in another country) you don't get a message from customs that there is a package waiting for you that you need to pay for or something? Never ordered something from the US before and I am letting it be delivered to Europe as well. Also, is there a way to let it be insured better during transport? The USPS page said that if it gets lost during transport you only get $100 refund with the most expensive option. | ||
| Ben Rating: N/A |
Matt - Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, just depends on whether customs picks it up and looks at it. I was lucky enough to get my Z800 through without getting caught for VAT, but I haven't always been lucky. I sent mine by DHL, but I had to call them to arrange that, otherwise it gets delivered by parcelforce in the UK. Ben | ||
| Ben Rating: N/A |
..sorry, that was supposed to be to Az Ben | ||
| Az Rating: N/A |
Thank you for the clarification Ben! | ||
| Matt Rating: N/A |
eMagin phoned me at home as I requested the package to go via UPS Global Express (guaranteed to pay VAT now, but at least I can keep an eye on progress and its insured for the full amount). Great customer service phoning International customers at appropriate hours. They confirmed I'll have them in my hands by next week!! I'll install, test and post a review then. Yes great news about the stereo drivers for the 7800 GTX - maybe I can play Battlefield 2 now in 3D. They were released on the 11/8/2005. http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dstereo_77.77 Yet to hear from nvidia that they have released them despite registering on their website/forum.... | ||
| xx Rating: N/A |
Just ordered the z800, delivery time now estimated at 3-5 weeks | ||
| Niklas Rating: N/A |
Tried the 77.77 with BF2. Still have problems with the shadow on the weapon reflecting off the ground. Delivery for Z800 is 23:rd of August I was told and I'll probably get me a 7800 GT now that it is supported in 3d! | ||
| Thomas3D Rating: N/A |
Hello, Is this one seller of the Z800 only Emagin? Or is there it also in Europe particularly in Germany dealer? There is a possibility of saving the import duty?I been no dealer is private. Thomas3D from Hamburg Germany | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
Hi people, I´ve been reading all this thread, and I have seen some reviews and the oficial Emagin web to see specificatinons and the FAQ. But I have some questions about and I see no responses: 1) Page flipping 60hz/2=30hz per eye can affect the smooth in games?. I have never played a game with 30hz. Seem to be flicker free with the OLED technology, but what about smooth?. 2) I have my XBOX with vgabox adapter. If I connect it to Z800 I will see it?. XBOX use HDTV resolutions (480p 95% times). I don´t know if this OLED thechnology is capable to show all resolutions below 800x600. 3) Connected the Z800 to a notebook to see DVD´s, how is the quality of the video?. I have read something about bad optic because the plastic lens. Why Z800 don´t use cristal lenses... the weight or the cost?. Can be replaced manually and easy in the future to improve the image quality?. 4) OLED technology has the same TFTs "Black problem"?, or is capable to show a real black?. This is very important to see DVDs. 5) Mouse emulation with the tracking system is very smooth?. I have TrackIR and I know what is a poor mouse emulation. Is as smooth as using a USB mouse? or it is like using a bad mouse with COM1?. Is there any lag in the video or tracking of this hardware?. 6) Is it possible to adjust the geometry in this display?. Can I make 16/9 if I select widescreen in my XBOX?. | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
What about emagin's dead pixels warranty policy? I want to buy a z800 but the dead pixels problem scary me. I control everyday for a review from a well know site but for now nothing TigerClaw | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
Why 900€? why not 100 or 150€ and all people using this product?... better for the company and better for the users.... we are walking like turtles always because the prices. If this product is good, too much people would buy it, and too much would buy the next z800 with more resolution. Z800 will sold some units, and Z800 will be forgotten... at this price. | ||
| Unclebob Rating: N/A |
Mopheta http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=1601028323&tid=ema&sid=1601028323&mid=84018 Looks like they have sold a 1000 in August and are looking at 2000+ in September. Seems to be very low volume. Price could be an issue but perhaps they are not pushing the product until they have volume production and delivery worked out? Also this is probably the reason why there are no reviews out there except for those few users (rather than hardware review sites) that have got one of the first ones. Unclebob | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
I received an e-mail a couple weeks ago telling me my Z800 would ship on or around 16 August. It's August 22 now and there is no more information about the delivery. If it helps I ordered mine on 9 July. Bob | ||
| Xminator Rating: N/A |
Unclebob is probably right. And to me it looks like a healthy way to get started. Ship a few units, get some fresh cash and get some user experience. The later is probably the most important. VR units have failed horrible before, so thats another good reason to go slow in the start. I have no idea if a million dollar in a month actually make a diffrence for Emagine, but my guess is that it will. My first 19" CRT set me back more then the cost of a Z800 :D But its a start, lets hope its THE start... | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
A turtle start... I think. | ||
| rvo Rating: N/A |
Better review... ...your own experience. If anyone want to try the emgain Z800 in Spain, or need help to decide why to buy this wonderful product contact with me (lfrv33@yahoo.com). more VR users ===== more & better VR designs easy. rvo | ||
| jad Rating: N/A |
uncle: You know the FCC, which tests all electronics in the US, required eMagin to make a few minor tweaks to the Z80 just before it started shipping. eMagin did the changes to some of the Z800s by hand, which accounts for the Z800s already shipped and the rest were done en masse which were recently completed. So it shouldn't be long now for people with back orders. You also know that eMagin does not count sales for the previous 30 days because of its return policy. Current production is said to be 500 a week with capacity to increase as needed. I am like you surprised that there have been no in-depth magazine reviews yet. Could be the FCC thing delayed distribution to reviewers. First adopter reviews are quite good so far. Disclosure: I haven't tried it yet. | ||
| jad Rating: N/A |
thomas: There is a German and a Russian site listing the Z800 for sale. This is strange because eMagin has never publically announced supplying and retailers, although they plan to in the future. I am sorry have no other information on these sites, except the price quoted was about the same as eMagin's. They may be resellers or bait-and-switch...so be careful. | ||
| anony Rating: N/A |
jad, how do you know this information? | ||
| Unclebob Rating: N/A |
jad nice to see you here. Good to see investors looking a little further than the company prospectus, after all its these guys that will or will not buy the product. Still waiting for the reviews and I hope they are good. Its not going to be an easy ride though, as if you look through this and other forums there are lots of issues with gaming in stereo which is one of the Z800 USPs. All the best jad Unclebob | ||
| jad Rating: N/A |
Thank you unclebob. Anony: The information I posted is contained in the quarterly conference call held by eMagin's CEO and CFO. It's still available on their website if you wish to listen to it. The CFO, John Atherly, covers the FCC and money-back subjects. | ||
| mvr Rating: N/A |
a new review: http://www.maximumpc.com/2005/08/emagin_z800_3dv.html I got an email yesterday saying my unit had been shipped ... ordered July11 waiting ... waiting | ||
| GianCarlo Rating: N/A |
It sounds liek this reviewer didn't fully understand or try the 3D aspect of the product and wrote it off as an "unfulifilled promise". Too bad. | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
I was told yesterday that mine had been shipped. UPS tracking says it's a 25 August delivery. It's on it's way Bob akita77 | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Sorry, I meant 30 Aug delivery Bob akita77 | ||
| Jeremy B Rating: N/A |
We sell low cost VR systems and have been trying to find something to replace the VFX for about 8 months now. Most solutions that have integrated trackers are just too expensive for our clients. Even the low-end 5DT is double the price of the VFX. We looked at the Icuiti and played around with integrating an InertiaCube2, but the result was always quite clunky. I love the optics of the Icuiti, but we realized that we do not want to spend our time doing this integration of the tracker. Nothing beats the single wire coming out of the VFX. Such a nice design. How fortuitous that the Z800 came along when it did! I ordered a Z800 about 3 weeks ago. It arrived Monday this week. I must say that I am very impressed by this HMD. The color, contrast etc is outstanding. I did notice three dead pixels (blue) in the right optic, but I really have to look to find them. I find that I can wear the HMD about 45 mins to an hour before it becomes too uncomfortable. This is fine for our purposes and our clients would only use it for 30 mins at a time max. People are asking about the tracker. It is very stable, and yes quite comparable to the InterTrax2. It can sometimes suffer from slight drift, but I find this is rare and only when I am being truely obnoxious with the tracker and trying to make it break. Normally, it is rock solid and a big improvement from the VFX tracker with its "old man shake" that most of the units I have ever seen have. Also, a little nugget for anyone trying to develop with this tracker. There is no SDK yet for the tracker which is why it comes with the mouse emulator. However, the interface for the tracker is already on your machine and you probably just did not know it. The file TkInU9.dll in your system32 folder is the interface that talks directly with the tracker and all of it's 3DOF goodness. If anyone needs some base code to get started with, shoot me an email and I'll be happy to share. | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
More info here: http://forums.stereovision.net/viewtopic.php?topic=2216&forum=4&9 It seems that many z800 have dead pixels Someone have received an unit without problems? | ||
| N1k0demus Rating: N/A |
Yeah, the z800 seems to suffer from it. But in my opinion it doesn't deter from the overall experience at all. In 90% of the cases you won't see the dead pixels at all since it requires a VERY bright background for them to be visible at all and only then can you begin to search for them. If you dont actively serach for them chances of seeing them while playing a game is basically null. If you look at the overall technology then you got a pretty impressive piece of hardware in your hands. The best HMD hands down in this price range. | ||
| Andy W Rating: N/A |
GianCarlo wrote: "It sounds liek this reviewer didn't fully understand or try the 3D aspect of the product and wrote it off as an 'unfulifilled promise'. Too bad." I disagree. The reviewer was reviewing this device for people who aren't already familiar with stereoscopic gaming. And in that context, his comments were very appropriate. When I had a pair of shutterglasses, 3d gaming was often a process of tweaking and tuning, trying to get the convergence and HUD depth right. Fiddling around with the registry to get the Nvidia laser-sights working. And in a number of games just giving up, because of graphics elements which had no depth information. Until stereo gaming is actually supported or enforced in the graphics API (DirectX or OpenGL), then games developers will ignore it during the development process, and it will remain an enthusiasts hobby, something for people who don't mind fighting their machine to get the desired results. The Z800 is starting to look like a really good HMD. But it is an expensive display compared to a standard monitor, and it doesn't solve the basic stereo gaming problems. | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
quote >By Jeremy B on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 04:20 >pm: >>>>> We sell low cost VR systems and have been trying to find something to replace the VFX for about 8 months now. Most solutions that have integrated trackers are just too expensive for our clients. Even the low-end 5DT is double the price of the VFX. We looked at the Icuiti and played around with integrating an InertiaCube2, but the result was always quite clunky. I love the optics of the Icuiti, but we realized that we do not want to spend our time doing this integration of the tracker. Nothing beats the single wire coming out of the VFX. Such a nice design. How fortuitous that the Z800 came along when it did! I ordered a Z800 about 3 weeks ago. It arrived Monday this week. I must say that I am very impressed by this HMD. The color, contrast etc is outstanding. I did notice three dead pixels (blue) in the right optic, but I really have to look to >>find them. >> >> ======================================= Damn Jeremy. You ordered the Z800 3 weeks ago, around 1 Aug, and received it before Aug 26!!! I ordered it on 9 July and it's finally enroute. How did you get such fast service? Bob | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
Probably Emagin has solved their shipping "lag" | ||
| Jeremy B Rating: N/A |
============================ Damn Jeremy. You ordered the Z800 3 weeks ago, around 1 Aug, and received it before Aug 26!!! I ordered it on 9 July and it's finally enroute. How did you get such fast service? ============================= Probably some luck, but it might help that I called their sales team and mentioned we would be at a trade show in a few weeks pimping the Z800 as part of our system to about 20,000 people. Kinda perked em up. | ||
| jad Rating: N/A |
uncle: Did you see the mistake in the MaximumPC review about how the Z800 works in 3d mode? He's describing shutter glasses. The Z800 doesn't blank one eye...etc, etc. With OLEDs and the right video card both displays would always be on. | ||
| jad Rating: N/A |
atika: Your order probably got delayed when they had to stop shipping to make the minor fixes mandated by the FCC...(mentioned in an earlier post) now it appears all those early orders are being filled. | ||
| jad Rating: N/A |
JeremyB: What trade show is that? Any details on net? | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
I have just ordered two units. I'm from spain as rvo, and i've sent a email to him to have the chance of test the z800. For what i'm reading, the z800 is the device I was looking for, And i'm gonna take the risk of ordering them without reading a "professional review", despite good reviews by users. If I dont like them at all, , i can send it back to emagin (at high cost of 15% restocking fee plus sending costs, i know, but who cares... it is my money after all) or cancel my order if i can see rvo's unit before it ships. My order number's last digits are 2659, if it helps, made today 08/29/2005 Hope getting them soon, Jorge | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
Hi Jorge, I´m spanish too, and I´m in the same dude... to order or not to order, this is the question. Me puedes enviar un email y me explicas eso de los costes en caso de devolucion?. Tampoco se bien si hay q pagar aduana, y cuanto sería. mopheta@hotmail.com | ||
| Dave Rating: N/A |
I've just heard that my unit is on its way! I'll let you know what I think as soon as I've had a play. Dave | ||
| YEAH! Rating: N/A |
Yeah sign me up for a unit with dead pixels!YEAH BABY! | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
More Z800 pictures. http://forums.stereovision.net/viewtopic.php?topic=2228&forum=4&1 | ||
| mvr Rating: N/A |
my Z800 came today it doesnt show too many signs of being the first release of a product ... the packaging looks slick and the QuickStart Guide is efficient ... on the CD is a fuller guide in pdf with plenty of detail on different configurations etc compared with an IO glasses the color, field of view and detail of the display are better imo the optics seem to be a folded plastic lens/45 degree mirror assembly -- probably with some aspheric surfaces -- and if you get the positioning just right the view is sharp into the corners pretty much ... so one could use it for writing/reading text for instance ... but it is definitely sharper in the center but positioning the screens is critical ... they are on a double hinge allowing the screen to be shifted forward and back as well as tilted I would be happier if there were independent eye focusing ... and less distortion of straight lines generally after a couple of hours playing with it I am happy ... 8 out of 10 it seems to be able to be pulled apart without too much drama for the hackers amongst us -- just some phillips head screws the other top of my wish list that the software enabled dual monitor nvidia stereo display ... ie. what one uses for standard dual projector setups ... rather than being forced to use shutter glass mode compatibility more when I play some more .. | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
Emagin could package better z800 for the shipping... | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
I received mine today also. Everything is as the previous posters have already written. But one fault I have that I can't figure out is my Z800 will display for a minute or 2, then black out. I then press the on/off button or even the brightness button and the display lights up for a few more minutes. As you can imaging, I didn't get much adjusting done much less any game playing. I am keeping notes on my web page and will add content as I move along with my Visor. Any ideas about fixing my problem would be appreciated. http://flightsims.vze.com/z800 Bob akita77 | ||
| Andy W Rating: N/A |
BigPat wrote earlier in this thread: "the part about the z800 going to sleep every 5 minutes, which is a half truth and somewhat annoying but it only happens if you aren't running the emagin software" | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
Hi akita77, I noticed you have TrackIR+vector expansion too (like me). Can you compare the Z800 tracker smoothing with TrackIR (without vector, we all know Z800 only support 2DOF actually)?. I think TrackIR smooth is good, but in mouse emulation mode is very poor. Can be used Z800 and TrackIR at the same time?. | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
akita77 Can you say to us if you can find any dead pixels? | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>>BigPat wrote earlier in this thread: "the part about the z800 going to sleep every 5 minutes, which is a half truth and somewhat annoying but it only happens if you aren't running the emagin software" >> >> ================================= Hi Andy. Thanks. Emagin answered my question right away and I'm having no trouble now. ================================= >> >> Hi akita77, I noticed you have TrackIR+vector expansion too (like me). Can you compare the Z800 tracker smoothing with TrackIR (without vector, we all know Z800 only support 2DOF actually)?. >> I think TrackIR smooth is good, but in mouse emulation mode is very poor. Can be used Z800 and TrackIR at the same time?.>> >> >> ============================================ mopheta I played around with the mouse support for a few minutes but I did not check it in a game because it didn't seem to work well. I did use it on the CRT and the Z800 Monitor and it worked the same on both. I can try with IL-2 later and let you know. I'm not a FPS gamer although I may like them now with the Z800. I will try one in the future. At the beginning of the forum someone asked how the Z800 performed with some games they listed. Is there a demo version of one of these games that I can try to answer these questions? ======================== -Image resolution and sharpness, contrast and brightness, quality of blacks, color reproduction -Optical distortions and focus/blurriness. -Perceived difference of OLED with LCD. -Is the FOV acceptable? -Pixels too visible? -Is the frame-rate acceptable (30fps per eye in stereo)? -Image delay (does it react to your actions like shooting immediately?) -Stereo perception/immersion quality (having in mind this is not all responsibility of the Z800) -Tracker precision, update rate and lag ========================= Right now I can't get the TrackIR to work with either the single dot or the VE so I'm going to take a break. I like it so much I'll probably put it back on in a few minutes. The other problem I'm having it the focus over the entire monitor. I have to tilt the Z800 to get either the top or the bottom in focus. The edges around the Z800 monitor are always a bit blurry. I even tried to make the actual display smaller by dragging the sides in but it didn't help. TigerClaw, I don't see anything like dead pixels. I guess I can look at a solid white or a solid black background to check. At the beginning of this forum it says to post honest reviews about the Z800. If my on-going review insinuates that the Z800 is bad, then I have to repeat, I would not return it. Slowly I will get the minor problems worked out. I really like this Visor. | ||
| user Rating: N/A |
Hey do these glasses have a monitor out plug for another monitor. Will using 3d be seen on that monitor also? | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>> Hey do these glasses have a monitor out plug for another monitor. Will using 3d be seen on that monitor also? >> >> I believe so. I will post the user manual instructions later this evening but I have not worked with 3D yet. I am more concerned about setting up the TrackIR 3 VE to be used with FS2004 and I finally have it working good. My problem of the Visor shutting down every few minutes started again after a few hours of working perfectly. A lot of trial and error, loading and re-loading the Z800 display utility and lots of coffee I now have it working again and not shutting down. I also kept some notes but I had to re-boot and didn't think about saving them but I'll write from memory as I update the web page. It may be a couple hours before I get it done. mopheta, I did not get a chance to compare the head tracking in the Z800 with the single dot tracking with the TrackIR. I started but never found a game where I could see the Z800 tracking. Bob akita77 | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Oh My!! I don't have my web page updated yet but just by accident I picked up a helicopter (MD500) not realizing I still had the X3D software set to Stereo Reverse - ON and almost crashed from the vertigo. Everything had depth and I felt like I could reach forward and adjust the altimeter on the instrument panel. very nice 3D More later... boB akita77 | ||
| Dave Rating: N/A |
Hi Bob, Was that in FS 2004? I'm really looking forward to trying a flight sim when I get my Z800. Unfortunately I can't get Stereo on IL2 Sturmovik FB working. I get large rectangular areas of terrain missing. (I've tried turning things off in the setup utility with display set to custom). If anybody has any advice I'd be most grateful. Dave | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>> Hi Bob, >> Was that in FS 2004? I'm really looking forward to trying a flight sim when I get my Z800. Unfortunately I can't get Stereo on IL2 Sturmovik FB working. I get large rectangular areas of terrain missing. (I've tried turning things off in the setup utility with display set to custom). If anybody has any advice I'd be most grateful. >> Dave >> >> Hi Dave. Yes, it was FS2004. I must have taken off the combat games but I wouldn't fly them even if I did load them up. Flying FS2004 without the TrackIR would be would be ok but flying with it really improves the feeling of flying and with the 3D mode would look great. This adjusting I am doing works with low and slow flight, C150'a and/or helicopters. Using the Z800 when flying the big guys at 30,000 feet might actually cause it to look worse than flying with just the monitors. Another way is to get the hardware required to run at least 4 monitors (3 monitors for forward and 45 degree side views and one for just the flight instruments) That would be the bare minimum in my opinion. A person would need another 2 monitors just for the flight maps, approach plates plus the radios and GPS, AND another 2 monitors to get the side views at 90 degrees. Adding that up comes to a prohibitive figure. Now the Z800 doesn't claim to be in that league but for the cost of all the features in the Z800 it comes close to giving the immersion experience a person would want. It's 5:53 AM. Time for bed. boB akita77 | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
Hi Bob, can you say about eyestrain?... how many time can you play without it, compared with a normal CRT monitor. Do you feel any inconvenience using these displays near your eyes?... you must force your vision to see properly?. Can you see any noticeable flicker?... Emagin FAQ says you have 60hz/2 = 30hz per eye, but I´ve no idea if this is enought using these OLED displays. Is it a good idea to view DVD movies with Z800 in the bed?..., can you see it with enought quality?..., what about the black color, is like any tft (grey)?. | ||
| xx Rating: N/A |
I read some time ago on the IL2 forum, that 3D will not work properly unless the graphics are set to "perfect" I ordered the z800 2 weeks ago, and i am intrested in any experience/ problems vith using IL2 and FS2004, as they are the reason i bought the vizor. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Dave, To get stereo working in IL2/FB, you have to use the PERFECT setting in video detail. | ||
| Dave Rating: N/A |
Thanks XX and Boprey that has solved the main problem. Now I just have black rivers and flashing buildings to deal with...Any ideas? Dave | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
You can´t see good 3d with IL2/FB/ACE or Pacific Fighters. The better is Opengl+perfect, but still you see doubled airfields, trees, weapons, etc... some months ago I thought it will be fixed, but no, still problems. | ||
| stoy Rating: N/A |
Well, either emagin had a much better production process now, or they aren't selling many units - i'd bet its the first one though. I ordered the z800 on Aug 24th, and just now got an e-mail that my z800 was shipped out yesterday! I will post my review when i recieve them tomorrow So anyone who wants to order them, there is not as long of wait as before | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Hi mopheta and xx and >> Hi Bob, can you say about eyestrain?... how many time can you play without it, compared with a >>normal CRT monitor. >> I do not feel any eye strain at all. Since receiving the Z800 I have not flown FS2004 with the CRT and I don't feel any difference one way or the other. >> >> Do you feel any inconvenience using these displays near your eyes?... you must force your >>vision to see properly?. >> None at all. In fact I've found that without my reading glasses I can bring the eye pieces back until my eye is almost touching the display and everything is in focus and easy to see. The problem is that to place the instruments on a second monitor so I can glance down to see them requires my reading glasses. So now I'm trying different settings to help me see the displays outside the Z800 or even to start the TrackIR and the Z800 display utility. >> Can you see any noticeable flicker?... Emagin FAQ says you have 60hz/2 = 30hz per eye, but I´ve no >>idea if this is enought using these OLED >>displays. >> No flicker at all that I can see. It looks solid. >> >>Is it a good idea to view DVD movies with Z800 in the bed?..., can you see it with enought quality?..., what about the black color, is like any tft (grey)?. >> The black in the game is very black. I will have to dig out the one DVD that I have and check that. Hi xx: >>I read some time ago on the IL2 forum, that 3D will not work properly unless the graphics are set >>to "perfect" >> >>I ordered the z800 2 weeks ago, and i am >>intrested in any experience/ problems vith using >>IL2 and FS2004, as they are the reason i bought >>the vizor. You will not regret getting the Z800 to fly the simulators. I have not re-installed IL-2 yet and am flying FS2004 only. I would say that you won't pp Hi mopheta and xx and >> Hi Bob, can you say about eyestrain?... how many time can you play without it, compared with a >>normal CRT monitor. >> I do not feel any eye strain at all. Since receiving the Z800 I have not flown FS2004 with the CRT and I don't feel any difference one way or the other. >> >> Do you feel any inconvenience using these displays near your eyes?... you must force your >>vision to see properly?. >> None at all. In fact I've found that without my reading glasses I can bring the eye pieces back until my eye is almost touching the display and everything is in focus and easy to see. The problem is that to place the instruments on a second monitor so I can glance down to see them requires my reading glasses. So now I'm trying different settings to help me see the displays outside the Z800 or even to start the TrackIR and the Z800 display utility. >> Can you see any noticeable flicker?... Emagin FAQ says you have 60hz/2 = 30hz per eye, but I´ve no >>idea if this is enought using these OLED >>displays. >> No flicker at all that I can see. It looks solid. >> >>Is it a good idea to view DVD movies with Z800 in the bed?..., can you see it with enought quality?..., what about the black color, is like any tft (grey)?. >> The black in the game is very black. I will have to dig out the one DVD that I have and check that. Hi xx: >>I read some time ago on the IL2 forum, that 3D will not work properly unless the graphics are set >>to "perfect" >> >>I ordered the z800 2 weeks ago, and i am >>intrested in any experience/ problems vith using >>IL2 and FS2004, as they are the reason i bought >>the vizor. You will not regret getting the Z800 to fly the simulators. I have not re-installed IL-2 yet and am flying FS2004 only so I don't know how the IL-2 aircraft will react to the Z800 head tracking. I have to say though that I bought the TrackIR 3 Pro with the Vector Expansion clip just to be able to control views in FS2004 and it works great. I'm not sure how much I would like FS2004 without head tracking. The TrackIR is not too expensive for what you get. boB akita77 | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
I apologise for the double post above. I copied the message to do a spell check and pasted it back in without deleting the original. Sorry. =============================================== A note. I have had a very bad day painwise. I cannot say the Z800 caused the head and neck pain since I've had it before getting the Visor. A few Vicodin and the Methadone clears it up somewhat but I have to stop using the Visor for a while. I ask a favor. Can someone tell me a way to check the Z800 head tracking. Rael has already said it won't work in FS2004 (the main reason I got the TrackIR with VE). I can see the cursor working when in mouse mode but I'd like to see the head tracking work. Is there a demo game that I can see the tracking work? NOTE 2 The 3D stereo in the Z800 works Great. Loading up some of the 3D screensavers will make you feel like you are there swimming with the sharks. But I'm not getting that good of stereo 3D in FS2004. Can someone tell what display settings in FS2004 will make the 3D look as good as the 3D screensavers. Thanks all boB akita77 | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Thank you very much boB akita77, for all your post with information on the Z800, it's been a great read. boB akita77, Do you think the reason people have not posted more information about the Z800 is because they are so much fun to use that people get them and are having such a good time they don't post? Aside from the head hurting today, are you happy you got the Z800 ? | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
Thanks very much akita77 (boB). Would be great if you try to view a DVD movie to say us if the visual quality is great, and relate us the posible inconveniences you find. I have ear that the big inconvenient is the blurring image that you see in all areas but the center. About FS2004... I don´t know if you are an expert Nvidia Stereo drivers user..., but only using ctrl+F3&F4 (eye separation) and ctrl+F5&F6 (convergence) you can have a great Stereo 3d with this great game (I have with my shutterglasses). I usually play with a big convergence and separation to maximize the depht sensation, but it is your decision. Another question would be if there is any difference in the Nvidia Stereo Driver between using a shutterglasses and Z800..., to know if the compatibility is the same 100% (I hope). | ||
| cybernmd Rating: N/A |
I ordered z800 just a few days ago and eMagin already shipped it today. I guess they really beefed up their distribution. | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Hi water1 >> >>akita77, Do you think the reason people have not posted more information about the Z800 is because they are so much fun to use that people get them >>and are having such a good time they don't post? >> I don't know. They might not know about this forum. I started reading the messages in anticipation of getting my Z800. It was very informative and from the messages here I was able to get my drivers set up and some other things I wanted to see with the Z800. >> >>Aside from the head hurting today, are you happy you got the Z800 ? >> I am VERY happy with my Z800. I said yesterday that I wouldn't send it back even if Emagin would refund every penny I spent on the visor and shipping. There are other very good systems to use with a flight simulator. A large rear screen projector and screen (~$3000.00) or the Bugeye triple monitor system (~$2200.00 for the monitors alone.) or a 7 monitor giant setup for more than $4000.00. For $950.00 for the visor and $169.00 for the TrackIR with VE and I have a great little world to fly my helicopter in. Add a separate monitor for just the instruments and it just gets better for very little cost. I think it is even better for the car racing games. As Rael wrote, it's like you are sitting in the car and being able to look around. The flight simulator setups would not work well with the racing sims. I have F1 Racing sitting in the cd rack and I should install it tomorrow to see how it looks with the visor. boB aktia77 | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Hello mopheta >> >>Would be great if you try to view a DVD movie to say us if the visual quality is great, and relate us the posible inconveniences you find. I have ear that the big inconvenient is the blurring image >>that you see in all areas but the center. >> I will try to find the one DVD I have. I bought it just to check the DVD player in my computer. >> >>About FS2004... I don´t know if you are an expert Nvidia Stereo drivers user..., but only using ctrl+F3&F4 (eye separation) and ctrl+F5&F6 (convergence) you can have a great Stereo 3d with this great game (I have with my shutterglasses). I usually play with a big convergence and separation to maximize the depht sensation, but it is your >> >>decision. >> I got out my X3D shutter glasses that have been gathering dust in a drawer. I started the 3D screensaver and I have to say it looked as good or a bit better than the Z800 but much darker. I tried the CTRL F3 F4 and CTRL F5 F6, but couldn't see that it made any difference. Then I started FS2004 on the CRT with the shutter glasses and it was not nearly as good as the Z800. It was much darker and didn't have the depth the Z800 has. So with my limited short test I say the Z800 looks better in Fs2004. >> >>Another question would be if there is any difference in the Nvidia Stereo Driver between using a shutterglasses and Z800..., to know if the >>compatibility is the same 100% (I hope). >> I rolled my nvidea driver back to 71.89 so it would be the same as the stereo driver and it looks great to me. | ||
| Ku Rating: N/A |
Akita77 try working with the head tracking, tell us how good it works,do they say it is a 3DOF of 2DOF? Did you say the glasses were easy to take apart out of it's shell if you were to hack into another type of helmet? | ||
| Dave Rating: N/A |
Hi all, Well it finally arrived! My first impression was that it didn't work at all! Then I realised I didn't have the display set to 60hz. DUH! I tried it with IL2 Sturmovik FB. The head tracking worked really well and the sense of depth was awsome but the games graphical glitches ruined it for me. Best experience by far was Live For Speed which looks amazing in stereo 3D. Strangely, the head tracking didn't work so well though. For some reason the game has much slower vertical look than horizontal look. As others have mentioned, the visor does have to be positioned very carefully to get the whole screen in focus but once you get used to it, it can be done very quickly. (I'm using it now to type this). I have also tried counter-strike which looks very good in 3D but I've yet to set up the lazer site. The headset is light and comfortable. I've had it on for hours today and it hasn't caused any discomfort. Nor have I suffered any kind of eye strain or headache. I haven't yet tried watching a DVD because I don't have a player utility on my PC. All in all I'm very impressed. Dave | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Akita77 try working with the head tracking, tell us how good it works,do they say it is a 3DOF of 2DOF? Did you say the glasses were easy to take apart out of it's shell if you were to hack into another type of helmet? Hi Ku. I haven't been able to install a game to check the head tracking. It's great that Dave received his and I am watching for his review of the head tracking. As far as taking the Visor apart, I haven't really looked at it to see. If I took it apart I'd never get it back together again. boB | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>> >>The headset is light and comfortable. I've had it on for hours today and it hasn't caused any discomfort. Nor have I suffered any kind of eye strain or headache. >> >>I haven't yet tried watching a DVD because I don't have a player utility on my PC. >> >>All in all I'm very impressed. >> >>Dave Hi Dave. I am still having the problem of my Viso shutting down every 3 minutes even though I'm flying around with FS2004. I open the Diaplay Utility and "activate" the Motion Sensor but it doesn't help. I must be doing something wrong. Can you tell me what you do to bring the Visor online and are you having any problem with the Visor going black on you? I would really hate sending it back for repair. I'v gotten so used to it that it would be a pain to go back to the CRT for any length of time. Tell me what I'm doing wrong. boB | ||
| Dave Rating: N/A |
Hi Bob, I get the same. I think it must be some kind of anti screen burn precaution. I can't find anything in the utility to stop it happening. Dave | ||
| Mike Rating: N/A |
That sucks and the missing pixels really bites! | ||
| Dave Rating: N/A |
I can't find any missing pixels on mine. | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>>I can't find any missing pixels on mine. >> >> Neither can I. But I don't really know what dead pixels look like. Another note for mopheta. Today I loaded a flight with the default 206 in the mountains in a blizzard. I flew for 10 minutes with the shutter glasses and then reset the game and flew with the Z800. The difference was easy to see. The Z800 has MUCH better stereo than the X3D shutter glasses. So now I can finally get good 3D in the flight sim. boB akita77 | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
Hi, I´ve been using my Z800 for three days now, and Igot mixéd feelings. Image quality is ok, but with only 30Hz per eye, the headtracking causes problems in my opinion. The FPS is simply too bad. | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>> Hi, I´ve been using my Z800 for three days now, >>and Igot mixéd feelings. Image quality is ok, but >>with only 30Hz per eye, the headtracking causes >>problems in my opinion. The FPS is simply too bad. >> >> I can only talk about the Visor with FS2004. 30Hz is well above what the human eye can notice flickering with the Flight Sim. I did some looking, just for me, not intended for anyone else to consider and the Z800 came out the very best. I could tell from the first day I began looking that the head tracking would not work well with the games I wanted to play. The Z800 and the TrackIR Pro 3 with the Vector Expansion clip makes my experiences just fine, for me. Many people might not look at the Visor the way I do and I would never try to talk anyone into parting with $950.00 if they would ask me. So I didn't even consider the head tracking with the Z800. I ordered, right away, the TrackIR and the VE clip. That added another $150.00 to my purchase but it made all the difference and I believe it would work GREAT with a FPS. I am not looking at that right now, I'm having too much fun flying. Here is what I looked at when I was considering buying a Visor http://firestone.vze.com/ and here are some observations I've had since receiving my Visor. It's not possible to show the 3D Stereo but I can tell you, it was nice. http://flightsims.vze.com/z800 What FPS games are you trying? boB akita77 | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
akita77 Can you use easily z800 with TrackIR vector expansion? It's necessary to use the baseball cape as I can seen on videos? The z800 built in head tracker has a noticeable lag? And what about the TrackIR? Thank you again for your complete replies. | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the quick answer akita77. I´ve been playing Halflife 2, UT2003 and CS with the z800. Flickering is not the problem, it´s the frame rate that is. When moving my head, the picture updates itselfs poorly. There is something strange however: The bots and other objects in front of me moves really smooth, with no disturbance due to FPS. Do you think I made some wrong/bad settings? Or would a TrackIR solve the problem? | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
One other thing: I don´t know if I have a bad unit, but it´s very hard not to get blurry parts in either the top or the bottom in the screen. And the right display seems to be set in a slightly different angle than the left one, wich can cause double images in the right side of the screen, i.e. letters e.t.c. I managed to get rid of most of this effect by adjusting the display with a bit of cardboard, tilting it a bit. | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Hi Tigerclaw, >> akita77 >> >>Can you use easily z800 with TrackIR vector >>expansion >> Yes, very easy in a flight simulator. I don't have any other games that I could test it. >> >>It's necessary to use the baseball cape as I can >>seen on videos? If you buy the TrackIR 3 with the vector expansion clip they send you a free cap. But the cap has the single dot on the visor so I had to dig out an old ball cap to put the VE on. I still haven't looked at placing the VE clip on the Z800 but it should be possible and even better. Right now I have to lay the cap on my head because the Z800 doesn't let the cap down lower. >> >>The z800 built in head tracker has a noticeable >>lag? >>And what about the TrackIR? >> I haven't been able to see how to use the Z800 head tracker so I don't know how bad your lag is but I can say the TrackIR is immediate. No lag at all as far as looking around the aircraft and the outside views. To me the VE clip with the 6 DOF is the best I could find and it wouldn't bother me if the Z800 didn't have the head tracker. Actually I'm looking at the AC power jack for powering the Z800 because from what I read the only thing the USB connection is needed for is the head tracking. boB akita77 | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Hi stereoviewer, >> >> Thanks for the quick answer akita77. I´ve been playing Halflife 2, UT2003 and CS with the z800. Flickering is not the problem, it´s the frame rate that is. When moving my head, the picture updates itselfs poorly. There is something strange however: The bots and other objects in front of me moves really smooth, with no disturbance due to FPS. Do you think I made some wrong/bad settings? >>Or would a >>TrackIR solve the problem? >> Man o man! I would hate to tell you to try the TrackIR because I can't tell how it would perform in the FPS games. I wrote in a prior message that in the flight simulator the TrackIR was fast. Sometimes too fast and I had to add some dead space in the profile just to slow it down. From what I see in my game is a very fast reaction to head movements left and right, up and down and more. Here are some playing around pictures as I got used to the TrackIR and the VE clip. http://flightsims.vze.com/trackir >> >> One other thing: I don´t know if I have a bad unit, but it´s very hard not to get blurry parts in either the top or the bottom in the screen. And the right display seems to be set in a slightly different angle than the left one, wich can cause double images in the right side of the screen, i.e. letters e.t.c. I managed to get rid of most >>of this effect by adjusting the display with a >>bit of cardboard, tilting it a bit. >> >> I had the exact same problem and getting the display as close to my eyes as possible cleared it up. Trouble is I need to wear my reading glasses in order to see the keyboard while flying. So I'm compromizing and accepting a bit of blurriness to be able to wear the glasses. My main problem is the Z800 shutting down as I'm flying along. It's getting very irritating to go behind the desk to press the ON button on the controller to get the display back. That short 1 foot video cable is much too small and I can't find a longer cable with two male connectors. Let me know if you can get it to work better. boB akita77 | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
Here something copy/pasted from another forum: THERE IS NO SHUT DOWN BUG with the Z800. You must install the software that comes with this unit. After which when you intend to use the Z800 (and NOT use the head tracker), you must double click the desktop icon, put a "check" in the mouse disable box, then hit "Activate". If you do not do this, after a couple of minutes the unit WILL go into shut off mode. I hope help you akita77. | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
akita77, I will start a thread about TrackIR on the headtracking section now. I wanna know more about it... | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>> >> Here something copy/pasted from another forum: >> >>THERE IS NO SHUT DOWN BUG with the Z800. You must install the software that comes with this unit. After which when you intend to use the Z800 (and NOT use the head tracker), you must double click the desktop icon, put a "check" in the mouse disable box, then hit "Activate". If you do not do this, after a couple of minutes the unit WILL go into shut off mode. >> >>I hope help you akita77. >> Thanks mopheta, I appreciate the note. Just the fack that others are talking about it makes me think there is more here to be worried about. I most certainly do have the software installed. I do activate the Z800 everytime I use it. Something is wrong. I'll keep working at it. Once I get the computer desk put up I can get the controller close enough to press the on/off button. I've tried the check mark in the "disable" box and then without it checked. http://xs.to/xs.php?f=z800-utility2.jpg&h=xs44&d=05355 boB akita77 | ||
| Dave Rating: N/A |
Has anybody tried blocking out ALL ambient light? I'm not just talking about a darkened room. I have just tried my visor with a stretchy black hat over my head, tucked in around the bottom of the eye pieces. I'm sure I looked completely ridiculous but the effect is amazing. I think it is objects in ones periferal vision that ruin the emersive effect. I am still getting the shut down problem but interestingly, not all the time. I had a couple of hours on IL2 Sturmovik when it didn't shut down once. My favourite is still Live for speed. If you haven't tried it, download and try the trial version. Dave | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
The shut down problem can be related to head tracking. When you have the problem you were using the heat tracker in the game? TigerClaw | ||
| Paul Rating: N/A |
I got mine today! Wheeeeee! I was waited ages... ages == 25 days... ; ) Anyway... It is a bit blurry in the corners I think this is because the lens is slighty to far from the display. But it's ok you will get used to it. The image quality is very good i must say. I installed it on 3 pc's, on one of those which is old but had an Nvidia card in it to test the 3d, it has an old USB 1.1 interface. On this computer the tracker was nog reconized. And the control program did not run. Which resulted in shuting down every 3 minutes. On all the other pc's it worked fine. I tested Counter-Strike, it's very funny using the headtracker and stand in your room running around the maps. A tip to get your settings right: Stand in the middle of the room. Get an orientation point. Do a 360 and you should be standing like you started. If not increase/decrease the sensitifity of your game. I tested Live for Speed and it was cool looking in the car and stuff... it freaked my girl friend out... I ordered a 6600GT to fully test the 3d function, next games will be Unreal, Half-Life 2 and other Valve games, Brother in Arms, Far Cry and i hope to test some Flight Simulator. If you have shutdown problems make sure the z800 icon is in your right icon bar. If it isn't, the control program is not running and the unit will go in standby mode eventually. --- End of day one --- | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Paul, I hope you don't start to have too much fun with the Z800 and forget to come back and post. I realy want to hear what you have to say about the other games like Half Life 2. I want to know how the head tracker and 3D work for you with Half Life 2 ? Hope to hear from you soon. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
The emagin z800 seems like one hot product, for everyone that has bought one can you please tell me, do you really get a 105 inch screen viewed from 12 feet away, or was that all just a bit of marketing hype from emagin? I want to know really how close the image is to youe eyes while wearing the visor? Also how big is the image? Is it really immersive, or do you still see black patches between your eyes and the image? Does this put you off? etc etc While playing a game with the visor can you stop head tracking on the fly in real time and then use the mouse to control the perspective in a first person shooter and then can you go back to headtracking, and continue switching between the two? | ||
| stoy Rating: N/A |
dvdbunny, honestly this is not an immersive product in the way it sounds like you want it to be. the 105" at 12' is not hype, its true, and converts to viewing a 17" monitor at ~2ft. You see lots of black, but the screen is big - and the more you play the more you are drawn into just looking at the screen, so its pretty decent. You can't stop the head tracking on the fly i dont think. Basically the mouse and headtracker work simultaneously. so it you look up the game looks up, and you can move the mouse down, and the view will move down. | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
dvdbunny, Like stoy said. 17" monitor at ~2ft. It is not an immersive product. You will need something like a 35" monitor at 2ft to be immersive. BTW. I got bought one too. | ||
| Paul Jackson Rating: N/A |
I am considering buying one of these z800 and would like to see if anyone has been using this for Word, PowerPoint, and Adobe. I do a lot of flying commercially and would like a tool that not everyone can look at the documents I am working on. I am a little concerned with the Resolution only being 800 x 600. Any feedback would be great. And yes I would find time to play some games on the plane, that may look a little interesting to folks sitting around :-) | ||
| Dave Rating: N/A |
Paul, If you get the eye-pieces positioned just right, it is exactly like using a monitor. There has been a lot of talk about blurry edges but I find that if the eye pieces are as close to your eyes as you can get them, the image is perfectly clear from corner to corner. Happy flying, Dave | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Would you people with the Z800 say that it is the best way to play a game like Half Life 2 ? That's a game I have not played yet and I want to know if I should hold off on playing it till I buy a pair of Z800. Well (if) I buy a pair, I am still reading what everyone has to say about them. | ||
| Aza Rating: N/A |
Wahoo mine just arrived, bites I have my laptop (AMD64+Ati9600 grr no 3d for ATI!) and not my desktop (with Nvidia 6600GT) with me now so I am going to lug the desktop to my house to test it soon. | ||
| Fouad Rating: N/A |
Hi, I have this thing now for one week. This is my conclusion at this moment: - screen is not in focus al the time. Sometimes I will get my right eye to focus, but my left eye will see an unfocused picture again. It helps to put the device really CLOSE to your eyes. This will leave some marks on your head after playing a game for a couple of hours. - if I have a still white picture, I can see a couple of dead pixels. An average of 10 pixels per eye. - headtracking is really cool and increases the immersive feeling in a game. It is not really useful, when playing FPS. Here I use the mouse and sometimes move my head. Still I am very happy with this feature on this device. - Stereo effect is as using shutterglasses, but then without any ghosting. So, just fine. - Did not use the headphones, because I have my own (expensive) headphone. End conclusion: For playing games in 3d, this device is (almost) perfect. I would not recommend the device for writing/reading documents. Today I am going to test half-life 2. Bye, Fouad | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Thank's for the review Fouad. Tell me how you like Half LIfe 2, I need to know...have fun. | ||
| Paul Rating: N/A |
Dave, You are so right! I didn't pushed it as close to my eyes that far. Because I thought it could'nt, but it can if the eye piece is down. I quote from the manual. (And yes please do read it!) "Don't be hesitant to push until hinge folds in all the way." They probably knew we were gona have some problems with it. It's very important for people with blury edges to read the manual carefully, and some self exploration and asking people like Dave helps to. So no blurry edges anymore, problem solved. Thanx Dave! | ||
| Adamg Rating: N/A |
Can a laptop be used with the emagin HMD? if so do you need quandro graphics card and dongle for stereoscopic 3D effect? | ||
| Paul Rating: N/A |
Hi!, I did some testing on Flight Simulator 2004 this evening. It's freaking incredible with 3d enabled. My mother in law sad it looked like a View Master. But with moving parts. Flying over a city is amazing. I flew over the same city for 30 minutes because I kept turning around. It really adds another dimension. I did have some problems with menu that where visible on the left eye and not on the right. But I think that is easy to fix... (ask Dave ;)) Turning off the 3d should do the trick I suppose. Tomorrow it's Half-Life 2 time (and probably some flying over city's)... wheeee!!! --- End of day two --- | ||
| Paul Rating: N/A |
Adamg, You can use it on a laptop, for stereo 3d you need a Nvidia card and install the Nvidia 3d drivers. You don't need a dongle, any Nvidia card should do the trick. I installed on a laptop my self. To bad it had a ATI Rage on it so no 3d on that machine. But 2d worked fine. | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
For all people that have a z800 please post your experience about dead pixel problem at this link. http://forums.stereovision.net/viewtopic.php?topic=2245&forum=4&0 Thank You | ||
| Cutlass Rating: N/A |
Here's a review out of the IFA in Berlin. I can't read German, so have no idea what the gist of it is. http://www.planet3dgames.de/index.php?site=artikel&th=12http: | ||
| Reichenberg Rating: N/A |
The German review from the IFA just states that the reviewer is pretty impressed by the subjective feel of the z800. No real news. The reviewer did not understand the concept fully..... he talks of of an image the size of 102" being projected on the retina. Uwe | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
i still don't understand, Why do emagin say it is a 105 inch screen viewed from 12 feet way, when you the users are saying it's converted into a 17 inch screen viewed from 2 feet away. Why can't HMD manafacturers create all immersive displays? about 12 years ago i tried virtual reality and back then they had displays that cover your entire field of vision, there were no black patches between the image and your eyes. The image was infact wrapped right around your eyes. The only problem 12 years ago from all off the HMD's i tried which gave the same experiences they all suffered in giving me a headache after using it for a few minutes. So that was 12 years ago, with technology these days why can't we have better displays and an image that does what i just described from 12 years ago? | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
Because the $.... always the $. An easy example. Emagin Z800 at 150$ would rocks and most people would buy it, and Stereo3D would be part of all houses. And tomorrow people would demand better hardware and companies would work more and better. But $ is $, and they need 900$ hoping to be millonaires in some weeks with fortune... they must think it´s better to produce a few units and sell at hight prize, than produce a lot of units and sell a lot to have the same goods. This is why we run like a turtle... with HMDs and with a lot of technology in general. I´m thinking about to buy a bicicle and forget the computers. | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
Paul and Adamg: There are stereo drivers for ATI cards too, but they are not as good as the ones from nVidia (you can play IL-2 sturmovik on them with any problems thogh, wich is more that can be said about the nVidia drivers). This is the link: http://www.edimensional.com/support_updates.php | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
Hey stereoviewer: I have an old pair of elsa 3d revelator shutter glasses the wireless version, they use page flipping. Would these shutterglasses work on an LCD flat panel monitor using that ATI stereo driver from edimensional? | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Played FS9 today. It is OK, not that bad. As the tracker is not 6DOF, it make me sick a little bit. I have a 20 inch LCD with TrackIR vector, and I do feel more immersive with the LCD monitor than the HMD as I usually view it from about 15" away. That's about 70 degrees in FOV; much better than the 40 degrees with the Z800. However, there is one thing eM did right which is that the Z800 is comfortable to ware and my i-Glasses is not comfortable at all. | ||
| Ku Rating: N/A |
Whats FS9? BOPrey do you think those glasses could be housed in another helmet for immersive use? Im gonna buy a pair within the end of this month to try this, but wanted some advise on the structure of the glasses, the i-glasses were easy to do but had problems of heat venting. whats the cable length, or what cable are coming out of the glasses that go to the box? Can they be disconnected or are they in the glasses. Can the cables be longer without distorting the Resolution? These glasses don't have dual input, so would you see a 3d image on the other monitor when viewing if the glasses were in 3d mode? tnx Ku | ||
| Rob Rating: N/A |
Anyone know of any stores that are gonna be selling these? sounds like i should try before i buy | ||
| Jesper Rating: N/A |
FS9= Flight Simulator 2004 if I'm not mistaken. BOPrey "It is OK, not that bad" It doesn't sound so good. The combination of very good 3D and the headtracker must count for something or is it truely "It is OK, not that bad" How much are you into flightsims? I felt that I could just buy it for the sims but now I got second thoughts. | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
Dvdbunny1, no they wouldn´t I´m afraid. LCD + shutterglasses = it´s a nono. | ||
| Aza Rating: N/A |
I tried the Z800 on my laptop today for a few minutes, I did not notice any bad pixels (that does not mean there are none, perhaps I just didn't see them) with a white then black screen in paint. Tried guildwars, the motion tracker with mouselook on is an incredible feeling (though I don't think you can play the game like that, not sure though), and I still even haven't tried out 3d on my desktop. So far I like the Z800, it is my first HMD. | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
Aza, have you view a DVD movie with Z800?. Is it better than any home television to do this?..., any inconvenient to view movies?... any lost in quality?. I think people must review this product forgetting the tracking effect for a moment, because it is usually impresive (I´ve TrackIR and I know what it is) and cause a non objetive review of the really important that it is the visual quality. We can write 100.000 words about it, but the solution must be to tray this product before to buy, once we have read some pros and cons about (not an unisone WOW). I remember that some people are disapointed with their spectations, and it is very easy to post goods (also if I would a member of the Emagin group). One thing is what I want, and another what a can... I want to think that this is a great product, but I haven´t enought garanties to can do it. | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
Well, I can´t wait more. I´ve bought it, Order Number: 41672625. I hope it will be here soon. I will review it as soon as it arrives at home. | ||
| Aza Rating: N/A |
I haven't seen a movie with it yet, sadly I have no time to play with it this weekend either. | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
I´ve seen some crappy DVD rips on them, and I think it feels better than watching them on TV. I don´t think it´s the image quality though (even though it might be better), but the more immersive feeling of a big screen + all the black around it (like in a cinema). | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
So has anyone done what I think someone else had talked about and I think some did with the I-glasses and used some 1X or 2Xmag reading glasses with the Z800 to bring you into the screen more ? | ||
| WY Rating: N/A |
I believe someone used them so they can see Flight Instruments on another monitor. I use 1.25 reading glasses. I have a Fresnel lens setup from UK that I have not assembled yet. It functions much the same way as the reading glasses. I am saving for a Z800. Too expensive for me now. Also have Vector and shutter glasses from E-Dimensional. Shutter glasses do not want to work with my 21" monitor and FX5700 card. The shutter glasses also darken the image and I do not like the wash out affect when correcting this. | ||
| Ku Rating: N/A |
Does anyone know of another pair of glasses coming out sometime soon? I'd like to know if the Z800 started something and other are gonna join in like i-glasses, are they coming out with something better. Im woundering how they kept thier prices still over $1,000 when the Z800 is under that with tracking and a bigger FOV. You would think they would drop the price alot. Ku | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
Someone can please make a final statement about the virtual image you see with z800? Someone says that 105" at 12 feet is real other says is like see a 19" at 2 feet... I understand that you can scale it as you want, but there is a big "feeling" difference between a 105" at 12 and a 19" at 2. This is the only problem I want to clear out before buy one TigerClaw | ||
| Dave Rating: N/A |
Tigerclaw, I find that the image seems to change size depending on the background I can see in my periferal vision. If I am close to a wall, the screen looks small. If I'm far from the wall, the screen looks big. It's as if the image is being projected. Stereoviewer, I tried the edimensional drivers with IL2 FB and couldn't get them working at all. The image on screen appears to be interlaced. Dave Dave | ||
| Paul Rating: N/A |
I used the E-Dimensional drivers on my shutter glasses... They use interlacing so that's why u can use a TFT screen also. I don't like interlacing because you loose lots of image data. But it does work. I also used a fresnel lens in combination with shutter glasses... It does look very impressive and very immersive, but you still have ghosting and no headtracking. My conclusion using all this equipment (I also used a P5 Glove ) was. If you want to fully enjoy virtual reality the screen has to move when you use headtracking. If the screen has to move, it has to be very lightweight. A HMD was the answer. For me the Z800 was affordable, and gave me a glimps what the future can bring. Full virtual reality is reality. So u need a perfect headtracking device, 100% VOF, and a large ball to walk in. Maybe something I will never see in my lifetime. The Z800 is for me the next best affordable thing. The screen is 105" at 12 feet, Because of the focus. It is almost the same as 19" at 2 fee. But it feels different. The VOF remains the same. See it this way, I you go to a cinema and sit in the back. The VOF is simalar when watching a normal t.v. But it feels very different because of the focus. So yes it "feels" like a 105" screen at 12 feet. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Paul "See it this way, I you go to a cinema and sit in the back. The VOF is simalar when watching a normal t.v. But it feels very different because of the focus." That was a great way to say it Paul, job well done.. | ||
| dvdbunny1 Rating: N/A |
Hi stereoviewer I read on edimensional's site that they are selling shutterglasses that are compatible with LCD flat panel monitors and there shutterglasses also work with Nvidia and ATI cards. Then i take it i could get these for my LCD monitor. Is it just my ELSA 3d revelator glasses are not compatible because there old technology which at the time did not support LCD monitors. | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>> >> Someone can please make a final statement about the virtual image you see with z800? Someone says that 105" at 12 feet is real other says is like see a 19" at 2 feet... I understand that you can scale it as you want, but there is a big "feeling" difference between a 105" at 12 and a 19" at 2. This is the only problem I want to clear out before buy one >> >>TigerClaw >> >> Tigerclaw,I wasn't going to give the Z800 a good OR a bad review since It's the only visor/goggles I've ever seen. Also I have never played a FPS game and so far have only used the Z800 with FS2004. I am sure the requirements and opinions are different for each game. I also don't use the 3D or the head tracking. For tracking I use a TrackIR with the Vector Expansion Clip which adds another $150.00 or so to the cost. But with my setup, I am very happy. I don't know what a FPS would need. As for your question, I read a couple people have given their perception of the display and you can imagine what they are saying. To me, no one else, the Z800 is comparable to a 24 inch monitor at 2.5 feet. It was difficult figuring that out with going back and forth between my 18 inch viewable monitor and the Z800 display. With the TrackIR the Z800 does very well in a flight simulator for me and I think the TrackIR would work great in any other game you wanted to play. I hope this helps a bit. I really like the Z800. boB akita77 | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
Dvdbunny1, the fact that it´s possible to use shutterglasses with LCD monitors is more than I knew of. Sounds cool! And Akita77, I heard there is an addon that gives you mouseview emulation in FS2004. That would make it possible to use the headtracker in Z800, don´t you think? | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
"I find that the image seems to change size depending on the background I can see in my periferal vision. If I am close to a wall, the screen looks small. If I'm far from the wall, the screen looks big. It's as if the image is being projected. " This is because your brain is playing tricks on you. Since you don't really know the depth of the virtual image, your brain immediately associates the depth of the image with the closest objects near the image. In this case, any exteneral object you see outside of the visor, and apply the same depth to the image. Since the field of view remains constant, the further the external object is, the bigger the image you think you are seeing. If you want to think you are seeing a even bigger image, try blocking out all the exteneral lights or use it in a dark room. | ||
| Charles Rating: N/A |
Have any of the z8000 owners on this board tested the unit for playback of a commercial quality stereoscopic DVD movie (such as an IMAX or Sensio DVD) using a page-flipping software program like Peter Wimmer's Stereoscopic player or DepthQ Server? If so, did you use the nVidia consumer 3D driver or OpenGL Stereo? How does DVD image quality compare to that of the monitor using shutter glasses? Is it brighter because no shuttering is needed? | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>> And Akita77, I heard there is an addon that gives you mouseview emulation in FS2004. That would make it possible to use the headtracker in Z800, don´t you >>think? >> >> I believe Rael wrote about that on his Blog, saying the tracking wouldn't work with FS2004. He did talk about some of the other games. I have activated the mouse look function and all it did for me was make it harder to change freq's cause the pointer was moving around so much. http://raeldor.blogspot.com/ boB akita77 | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>> Have any of the z8000 owners on this board tested the unit for playback of a commercial quality stereoscopic DVD movie (such as an IMAX or Sensio DVD) using a page-flipping software program like Peter Wimmer's Stereoscopic player or DepthQ Server? >> >> I have one DVD movie around here somewhere but can't find it. I'll go look for a clip somewhere. boB | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Active Camera will give FS2004 mouse look. | ||
| clyde Rating: N/A |
Ive sent at least 3 emails to E-Magin asking them for distribution of the Z800 in my region.... and no reply. -Clyde | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
Thank you for your reply about my question. To be honest I'm still a bit confused but I think I will order the z800 to see myself :D TigerClaw | ||
| stereoviewer Rating: N/A |
"I believe Rael wrote about that on his Blog, saying the tracking wouldn't work with FS2004. He did talk about some of the other games. I have activated the mouse look function and all it did for me was make it harder to change freq's cause the pointer was moving around so much." I did read his blogg, but I´m not sure he knows about the addon. Anyway, what do you mean by the mouselook "make it harder to change freq's cause the pointer was moving around so much". I don´t have the game (or any other flightsims yet), so I don´t understand at all what you mean. What is "freq's"? And the pointer, is there actually a pointer on even with mouselook? I´m planning on bying a flightsim as soon as I know wich one will be best with Z800. I tried Il-2 Sturmovik and it works great with it, if it only wasn´t for the stereodriver not supporting the game very good. | ||
| akita777 Rating: N/A |
>>Anyway, what do you mean by the mouselook "make it harder to change freq's cause the pointer was moving around so much". I don´t have the game (or any other flightsims yet), so I don´t understand at all what you mean. What is "freq's"? And the pointer, is there actually a pointer on even with mouselook? >> >> When I had the Motion Senser Enabled the pointer would follow my head. To change frequencies on a radio or to change the menu you have a very small hot spot to click on. I would use the mouse to move to the hot spot but even small head movements would move the pointer away. It was sort of a dodge ball effect. I have IL-2 but haven't installed it yet. Still so much fun just flying FS2004. Did you play the original IL-2 and if so, which patches did you use? Or was it IL-2 Forgotten Battles? I thought I read IL-2 FB was compatible with the Z800. akita77 | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Here are a couple pages from the EMG message list. http://www.fortune.com/fortune/smallbusiness/technology/articles/0,15114,1095444,00.html or http://tinyurl.com/bokno akita77 http://www.fortune.com/fortune/smallbusiness/articles/0,15114,1095433,00.html or http://tinyurl.com/aoqfr | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
As said in the LearnMore in eMagin web page: """Is the Z800 3DVisor compatible with my Playstation 2, Xbox, or GameCube? The Z800 3DVisor is not natively compatible with currently available video game consoles. You will need to use a signal converter to scale the standard NTSC signal to analog SVGA. Such converters are available from various websites. In addition, these consoles are not capable of taking advantage of the Z800 3DVisor's head-tracking and 3D capabilities. We will provide updates regarding use with upcoming models of consoles.""" Anybody know or have any of these "signal converters" to scale the signal?. How is the quality in the image scaled?. Is it like a TFT monitor using a resolution different than it´s native resolution?. I hope to receive the Z800 this week. | ||
| Aza Rating: N/A |
Finally got to try the Z800 with my desktop (AMD64 & GeForce 6600GT with stereo drivers)! Infact I am typing this right now with the Z800 as virtual screen I use it as the only monitor, in the POST (bios startup etc) screen I didn't see anything, until windows boots. I did not set the resolution of the monitor to 800x600 beforehand, but managed to see enough to switch to that resolution without the use of another monitor and then install all the drivers. Installing the drivers will get rid of the 2 minute limit. I think I see a few dust specks on the screen, or they may be dead pixels either way they are hardly noticeable especially as your eyes interpolate between the two screens. It's worth the time to tilt the display in a good view and adjust the displays width, so the image is sharp on both eyes. Right now with more than 2 hours usage in a row, I hardly even notice I have the visor on. So far I tried some games and the Nvidia test application. The games I tried were: Guildwars, Neverwinter nights and Morrowind. In Guildwars and NwN the interface sadly is in the wrong focus, but I hope there are fixes for that somewhere (fiddling with the game or Nvidia's display drivers I'm sure). For Morrowind I have only one word... wow! It is amazing to see a virtual world move with your head and in 3D, simply amazing! Anyways no time to play anymore. So far I like the visor, it's still a toy because other than games I don't see much use for it, but a very fun toy nonetheless! I also viewed some short movies with it, works well so far. | ||
| Wrath0 Rating: N/A |
wow.. morrowwind actually has support for headtracking and 3d with the emgain? The new elder scrolls game should also have the support and it will likely be mindblowing.. what input device are you using for morrowind with the HMD on your head? I imagine keyboard would be tricky.. I have a keyboard joystick combo I got from a vr website, I wonder if that would work well... | ||
| Aza Rating: N/A |
I use the keyboard (and sometimes the mouse) as the input device for Morrowind, you can look down to see the keyboard if you dont put the visor very close to your eyes (or you can type blind like I am doing now in the dark ) the headtracking is supported through the mouse emulation, and the 3d support through the drivers. Found a copy of Morrowind + both expansions for 10 euros so nice world to explore | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
hey akita77, Just looking back at some posts over the last few weeks... Are you still having problems keeping the visor from going to sleep? Is the emagin icon in your system tray when this happens? If it is then I'm not sure why that would be happening... unless it has something to do with headtracking being turned off? I'll give it a try later. Certainly they could use a little more documentation on that and maybe an more intuitive ui for their software since they merely grayed out the "x" for the window and let you discover that minimize button is what you need to press in order to minimize to the system tray and keep the software active. Given they put a release version on it, I'm hoping they will make some improvements eventually and make them available as downloads. bigpat | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
As aza pointed out, the z800 screen doesn't come on until Windows starts coming up so you miss the bios screens. That is because it is USB powered and it doesn't power up the visor until the USB gets activated, which isn't until Windows starts coming up. That is the drawback of using USB for power and if the z800 is your only monitor. Normally not a problem unless you have to troubleshoot some bios settings and there is no other monitor available. As it happens I have to press F1 on startup to get past a pesky message that says I don't have enough fans installed to run my nvidia 6800GT (any ideas?). And I had let a friend borrow my LCD to play with and I had to just remember to press F1 after restarting my computer because the z800 isn't powered until the USB controller comes up. bigpat | ||
| Charles Rating: N/A |
Bigbat: If you connect the z800's optional AC adapter to the visor, will the unit stay on and display BIOS screens during reboot? | ||
| Charles Rating: N/A |
Excuse me, I obviously meant "Bigpat" -- No insult intended :-) | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
It´s possible that the cause because you don´t see the bios is the resolution, not the usb power. | ||
| Charles Rating: N/A |
Mopheta: According to some posts in this discussion group, the z800 can downscale 2-D input of 1024 x 768 to its native 800 x 600. You may be right that it won't upscale standard DOS or lower resolution unput. | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
Yes, you are right, somebody posted this here, but I have read other thing in another site (I don´t remember). I understood that 1024x768 was not downscaled to fit in the 800x600 screen.... I understood that you can see a portion of the 1024x768 screen, exactly 800x600 pixels (then you loose the other pixels, so there would not be scaled). And about lower resolutions... I don´t remember to read anything about. Would be interesting for me to know how do with 680x480 (thinking in the vga signal that I have with my xbox with the x2vga adaptor). I suppose that if it recognizes anything it will do the same, showing in this case a screen smaller?. Would be great if any Z800 owner clear this resolutions doubts (if it has been done previously I don´t remember). | ||
| Paul Rating: N/A |
I had some problems with my z800 going to sleep. The solution was simple. Uninstall the drives. And install them again. The reason of the problem was. I usually plug my z800 in the front USB port. Now it's in the back of my computer. I think the address could be different on another port. So the wakeup call never reached the z800 I hope this helps you to... | ||
| Aza Rating: N/A |
Also if the Z800 program is not automatically started make sure you start it before 2 minutes are up I did try the higher resolutions (because my computer was not set to 800x600 yet before I connected the Z800) but I forgot what happened, I will try to see soon. | ||
| mopheta Rating: N/A |
Still waiting... a DHL problem with my shipping. I hope will be solved soon... 5 days since the shipping and Z800 is not here. A postman must be playing with my hardware :X | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
Can be a customs problem. I think you will be contacted to pay the amount required by your country. Anyway they shipped the unit immediately, right?! TigerClaw | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Does anyone know whether the z800 visor will display an image (without head tracking capability, of course) if its software program isn't installed? | ||
| ku Rating: N/A |
The main reason the USB needed to be pluged into the PC was for tracking, so I don't see why not. | ||
| Aza Rating: N/A |
Yes it displays an image if the software is not installed, but you have to press the 'on' button on the controller thingie every 2 minutes if you do not install or run the program. I installed the drivers while using the Z800 as monitor. The USB is needed for power as well, ku. Although there is a connector for an external power supply (not included and not needed). Mine took a long time to arrive as well as it went through some american cities first and then a few european ones, make sure you track your package so you know where it is | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
Aza, my Z800 will be here tomorrow, and it has been walking through some american cities too. I thought it was a DHL error, but now I don´t know what to think. Are you talking that the external power supply is not included?. This is strange because eMagin claim to be the Z800 compatible with any system with VGA and 800x600 signal (i.e. consoles or dvds using any svga signal converter), so without USB and only this power supply you must be able to play without pressing on the button. | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
My two z800 arrived today, and the waiting was long but it was my fault, just a credit cart limit issue, i was in contact with Seonhui Kaye (i think) and feedback was quick and polite. I dont think it was because only my purchase, i asked the support team a technical question about USB video banwith and they answered me in one or two days. My two nvidias are coming, but i will not have it until next week, so, sorry if you have to wait for my review. I confirm there is no external power supply included. I can read in this forums issues with the correct focus and blurriness on some units, because i have two units, i will test if it is a "lotery" or just a not correct calibration (or just depends on person eyes shape or interpupil distances not matching exactly the z800 calibration). Regards Jorge | ||
| Aussie Rating: N/A |
Hi l would like to know after you get a email form emagin saying Your order will be shipped within 1 week after receipt of order does it take a week before they send it or a day or 2. Im in melbourne Australia lm paying $97 US just for the post to get it here in 3 day witch most things take to get here Thanks | ||
| Glen Murphy Rating: N/A |
Hi Aussie, I'm in Melbourne too - let us know if you get charged GST + customs handling. | ||
| Mark S Rating: N/A |
Hi Glen, Im from Sydney.. Anything over $500 Australian including postage will get about $30 to $60 Clearance fee + GST Being over $1000 Aus value may mean a more complex clearance forms so probably the higher figure. Don't know about the DUTY , could be up to 5%. Aussie , we look forward see the size of your bill :-) As we have to pay so much to get one ( $1600 AUS plus ) If only there were some way to try one. I notice that buyers seem not to want to return them despite any niggles which is a good sign. | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
Mopheta we are waiting your review :D | ||
| 3d_visor Rating: N/A |
I've heard that Icuiti will launch a SVGA version of its V920 HMD in October. Has anyone else heard this? Can anyone confirm with Icuiti? | ||
| sanmon132 Rating: N/A |
3d_visor, If that is true, I hope they can bring down the price point to about $600 or so. Some good competition should improve the pricing and quality in this market. | ||
| 3d_visor Rating: N/A |
Sorry I should have said SVGA and XGA versions. I heard nothing about pricing. | ||
| Aussie Rating: N/A |
The way l see it l may have to pay any thing up to $200 lm going to check it out on wensday morning so l will you know how much it will cost me | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
Today I´ve received my Z800. I´ve been testing for 2 hours, and now here is my impresions... I START WRITTING THE BAD THINGS: - Resolution. We all know, only 800x600. - You can use Antialiasing, but image quality is not as good as 1024 in a good monitor. Image is enought good to play, but if you have a good monitor you will lose quality, not only resolution. The grainy showed is more than I thought, and can be a problem for some people. Some dead pixels, but this is not any problem, I think. - Blurring is always present. You can put your eyes just in front to minimize, but always there are some, and frequently you have one eye that see something better the image. I will test to know if I can see it better with more experience. - An important thing... colors are not as good as I thought. If you play in 3D you will notice some decrease of colors quality. - The plastic in optics are not protected with anything, and seem to be possible to damage it easyly. - Fov is not good enought. I´ve a 19" TFT monitor and it don´t feel smaller than Z800 using at normal distance. Forget the 105" claims or something like this. - Black color is better than LCD, but not as good as CRT. You can view DVDs good, but colors, grainy, and not good FOV make it not as good as you can think. - Brightness callibration is not good enought. Only 5 positions, and increasing the bright gives you a decrease of colors quality. The better is to play or view dvds in the night, with the lowest bright, to see more quality. Colors in general are not well callibrated and seem different than any monitor. - Not power suply included. Very ridiculous wires included.... VGA cable is a 1 foot cable that make you imposible to put the base in a good place... you must buy another VGA cable. Audio and Microphone cables are not enought large too. - Headphones seem to be a toy put in the visor. Audio can be too much better, and do not filter enought the soundblaster interferences... I have always noise in two computers I have tested, and I have not this noise using other 3 headphones I have. - Playing Stereo 3D is not as impresive as I´ve read in these forums. This is not the best quality system that you can have. I´ve tested two 19" LCD monitors with a mirror and you have a better quality and inclusive more FOV than with this visor, but you must have the face always in front of the mirror, and two LCD big monitors in the table. - 800x600x60hz is its native resolution. Using 60 hz in Stereo 3D gives you only a bit of flicker. Then it is not totally flicker free with 60hz. Using 75 or 85 hz cuase no flicker, but cause a bit of decrease in image quality. THE GOOD THINGS: - You can view a DVD lied in the bed. The quality is not the best, but it is enought and is more confortable. - The experience is good. Don´t expect any espectacular thing, but is good. But I think the price is high for what it gives. - A good alternative to play Stereo 3D games if you do not have a good crt monitor or only you want to have more space in your table. You don´t have the shutterglasses loose of bright and ghost, but don´t expect miracles because you have another cons. It is possible, if you have a very good graphic card, to play inclusive better with a crt monitor with a high resolution and a good monitor with a good bright and big enought. I have to test more this hardware. This is possible to be better than I think now. | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
What I can say: | ||
| akemi Rating: N/A |
Finally I have my system setup so that I can really enjoy maximum quality experience with z800. For those who have complained of quality issues such as image color, blur, etc... I suggest upgrading your system to fast processor and 7800 GTX with 78.01 drivers. As suggested by dvdbunny1 I highly recommend you set your Nvidia graphic card with: 800 X 600 85hz 8X FSAA 16X AF Image Settings: High Quality Vertical Sync: On Digital Vibrance: Max Stereo 3D using Nvidia stereovision forceware drivers. The quality image that you will experience with z800 after the upgrade can be rather impressive. So far I have tested the new settings with Live For Speed(LFS) and it is rather pleasant. Even with all the best settings to the max I am able to get average of 60fps in LFS in 3D Stereo. | ||
| Aussie Rating: N/A |
I will have my z800 by friday morning they use fedex so it will take 3 day and as far as l know l do not have to pay any taxes when l get it. l have got things from the USA before and have never had any troube with paying any more than the price that l pay for the things l have got from the USA.So when l do get the z800 l will let you guy here in Australia know if there is any taxes to pay.All up it has cost me $1329 AUST. I did pay $97 US so l can get it in 3 days | ||
| sanmon132 Rating: N/A |
3d_visor I have confirmed that Icuiti will launch a V920 upgrade next month to SVGA and XGA. 3D games should look awesome on XGA, a LOT better than SVGA. | ||
| ces_times Rating: N/A |
The above post from sanmon132 is a bogus post of a Kopin troll from stock message boards. This is to copy someones login it is not very fond of. It uses many logins on stock message board of eMagin including rockema, dive, emaimonmyway, and way to many to list here. Sorry for these inconveniences, you may end up with many posts here of cheap message board style | ||
| Aza Rating: N/A |
I did the 85 Hz and digital vibrance settings, and I finally took the time to properly adjust the optics. The difference is amazing. Especially the optics, I did not dare to move it this close to my eyes before, but it is much easier to focus and you don't get out of focus anymore so fast when you move it to the left/right/up/down. So in conclusion: if you have it too far from your eyes, you get blurs on the edges, but if you have it close enough to your eyes you will have a sharp image everywhere. It does take a while before you get it right sometimes but it's worth it! | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
2nd day using my Z800. Better feeling than the 1st day. There was some things I did not very good the 1st day. - The visor can be put more closed to the eyes than I thought. I did not it because it was something strong. It causes a increase of FOV. FOV is not enought, I think, but is bigger than the 1st day review. - This nearest position not only gives a better FOV... it does a much better job with blurring images. Now I can read text in any place of the screen. There is still a little bit of blurring at the corners, but it is too much better than the 1st day. - If you are going to play stereo3D games, don´t plug a 2nd LCD monitor. Put a CRT monior or put nothing in the Z800 vga output. I had in the 1st review a 15"LCD monitor plugged with the Z800, and the Nvidia recognizes this monitor as the 2nd monitor and Stereo Drivers works with Z800 like if it would be a TFT monitor. There is a very important difference... too much better now. I have to say that now this hardware gives me a too much better impresion. It is not perfect, but it is enought I think. I´ve tested some different resolutions. Z800 can work with: - 800x600@60hz-75hz-85hz (don´t support 70-72-100). - 1024x768@85hz (don´t support 60hz), and does not scale the image, only you see a portion. - 1280x1024@85hz (same that 1024). - Does not show 680x480 using any refresh rate. I have to test more resolutions. You can calibrate something the image phase with the eMagin software, to reduce interferences (If you have any with your hardware). I have improved a bit. But these little interferences are not usually visible (in my case) if you don´t callibrate. I have to explore how to improve colors quality. The colors are not as good as I want... seem like with some yellow ocre tendence compared with a callibrated normal monitor, and this + the grainy makes the images not as good as a normal monitor. This + a bit of blur (if you are well positioned) = the difference with a normal monitor. The eMagin sofware gives us information about the colors, but I don´t find how to edit, only information about RGB values. The eMagin software need more work. It works now, but mouse tracking can be better with 3DOF and a centering option. And other things included in this sofware can be better done, like callibration, power off options (not included), options to save all configuration, etc. This hardware needs a Windows driver to limit only the supported resolutions and refresh rates, to prevent to loose the signal using this hardware as the only monitor. Now Windows XP recognizes it as a simple "analog monitor" y you don´t plug any monitor in the vga output. And as I said, it is better for stereo3D not to plug a LCD monitor... leave it alone or plug only a crt monitor. | ||
| 3d_visor Rating: N/A |
ces_times, I suggest you call Icuiti and confirm for yourself. 585-240-8000. | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
- The visor can be put more closed to the eyes than I thought. I did not it because it was something strong. It causes a increase of FOV. FOV is not enought, I think, but is bigger than the 1st day review. So what is you impression now? In your first comment you say it's the same FOV as eeing a 19" CRT monitor, now is like...? Thank You | ||
| kodiak1 Rating: N/A |
3d_visor is icuiti using oled like the 3d_visor? | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
TigerClaw, only something more. Now it´s like a 21" or 22" in normal use. It is not as big as I thought. I´ve to say that this hardware is good. But for the prize... if you have money you can buy it perfectly and will not disapoint you. But is not perfect, and I think we will have soon a better visor in the market (only that the prize of this future visor can be a problem). I think this visor would be perfect with: - Something more FOV... not too much, but something more. - Better optics to can view easy without blur. Now you can see a good image, but if you move only a bit you start to see blur. - A better resolution. The perfect would be a widescreen resolution with 1024 or higher pixels. With 800x600 you can view good images with Antialiasing, but can be better. Now 800x600 is a good compromise with todays Nvidia graphics cards power (I´ve a Nvidia 6800 TD), but future cards will eat 1024 or 1280 easy in stereo3D. - Images with something better color callibration (I don´t know If I can do anything better now) and without grainy. Grainy can be a problem... you can´t see perfect shine images. If you see the sky in a simulator you are seeing little points that can be a problem in some circunstances. It´s like if you see a divx movie with a small noise film effect plugin. Other things like the driver, the better software, etc... are not a problem, I think, and can be solved and improved in the future (this is only software). Other like phones, you can replace with another ones, it´s easy to replace. And the mouse tracking is good now, but can be better with better software options in the future. Some people expect to have the perfect thing to play or view DVDs with this Z800. I can´t say that this it is not the best way, but I´m not sure. You have to wear something in your head and you have a cable always near you, and that can be not confortable using a lot of time..., and not supported resolutions and hz (only 800x600) make you to loose the signal in some circunstances, and it make this thing a bit tedious (but I think it would be solved with a monitor driver for Windows). Extract your own conclusions. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
On the icuiti site they have this listed as Display options AMLCD QVGA 320 x240 Color/Monochrome AMLCD VGA 640 x 480 Color/Monochrome AMLCD SXGA 1280 x 1024 Monochrome AMLCD Enhanced VGA 640 x 512 Color OLED SVGA 852 x 600 So maybe they will do a 852x 600 OLED version. That would give a little more FOV. Does anyone realy know if they will be releasing a higher resolution model of the v920 ? | ||
| 3d_visor Rating: N/A |
water1 I don't think it will be OLED. Most likely they will use Kopin's SVGA display which is available in volume soon. Supposedly, the upgraded V920 will use the same head mount and electronics box as the V920 but with no head tracking until early 2006. The company can be contacted at 585-240-8000. | ||
| Aussie Rating: N/A |
Ok for you guys in Australia the tax you have to pay is $178.10 AU for the Z800 | ||
| Mark S Rating: N/A |
Thanks Aussie, Around AUS $1500 all up I guessed a while back, so pretty close. Enjoy your new Z800 ! | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
It would be good practice to place rumors on other HMDs in seperate treads. This is long enough as it is without the rumors in between. | ||
| Ku Rating: N/A |
Well I didn't want to add to this but I did hear that a newer Version to fix some of the problems like vertical lines and whatever else there was, is coming out in October.. It was said that it will do higher Res! I guess we will just have to wait and see.. | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
Well I didn't want to add to this but I did hear that a newer Version to fix some of the problems like vertical lines and whatever else there was, is coming out in October.. It was said that it will do higher Res! I guess we will just have to wait and see.. You are talking about a new z800 revision? If not can you please make another thread? | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
I sent an E-mail to icuiti and they said the unit to be released in october it will still be 640 by 480 but will scale up to 800*600 and 1024*768. I also read from someone else online that they were told by icuiti that the white lines will be fixed in the new unit. Price will be $550. Sorry TigerClaw, that will be the end of my thread jacking ways. Someone start an icuiti V920 thread if you want, or wait till the new one comes out and post a review. | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
Anybody know if there is any way to edit the RGB colors in Windows XP?. Z800 program doesn´t give us the posibility to callibrate colors (only show information), and I think the colors are not well callibrated from default. I don´t know if the Nvidia drivers can do that (I don´t see how). I only see options to edit brightness, gamma, and "color vibrance" (this color vibrance only increase saturation, not give us control over RGB channels). This is a good product, but I must say that the blur causes some eye strain if you are reading or you must focus your eyes with precision in any game or application. I suppose that a better optics (cristal?) would give more shine and less blur. | ||
| ku Rating: N/A |
Has anyone have the Z800 and using a Geforce 4600, would this card not be enough? | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
The tracker on the Z800, is it a form of magnetic tracker like a Gyro mouse or is it somthing else ? People that have the Z800 how would you rate just it's tracking on a scale of 1 To 10 ? | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
I don´t know if it is a magnetic tracker. The tracking is good, but has no precision with small movements. I don´t know if this is a driver dead zone limit to prevent a continue cursor movement. And Ctrl+c does nothing for me in the software (suppose to center the mouse?). RAting: 7. Good movements if you move your head quickly. Better score if tomorrow we have a better software and more options. | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
Something more... Using a LCD monitor in the output is not a problem playing 3D games.. it was a nvidia driver version problem with Farcry that I´ve solved decreasing quality into the game. | ||
| AlbusD Rating: N/A |
Mopheta - did you try adjusting the headtracking sensitivity within the Z800 software? I haven't had any dead spots or lagging since increasing the HT motion sensitivity(speed). I'd give the head tracking a 8 1/2 . | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Thank's you for the replys on the head tracker... | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
One thing i've observed the "center point" of the headtracking is lost when you move up or down the head beyond the 60 degree limit, or left and right at different speeds, so, is a little bit annoying, but i have to do more tests... Someone asked for a comparison between this and gyromouse's tracking. Gyration tecnology is far more accurate, or may be it's my head that is not as accurated as my hand? I remember that i had to practice with my ultra mouse in-air mousing before it start to point where i wanted to, i suposse this is the same.... At this moment, i give the z800 a 7 23.45/87 Lol Pretty good.. | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
It happend to me that sometimes if I turn my head only in X axis the cursor describes a parabolic movement (i.e. if I turn my head to the left the cursor goes to the left and down). This problem appears and disappears without any cause. AlbusD, this night I will try to adjust the sensitivity, but I remember to did it and I did not notice better tracking with small movements. I´m supposing that we all have the same eDimensional program version... I don´t see any update in the eDimensional web page. Now I have the "miscellaneus" Revision Nº 635 (I suppose this is the version number of the utility). | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
I´m being more and more happy with this visor. We must know how to use... the first day is nothing comparing with now. Yes, seem to be the better way to experience 3D... not the best resolution, but the most inmersive way. Stereo3D works very very well, and visual quality has improved a lot callibrating the display properly. | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
water1: I was asking to open a new thread only because it vill be more easy to talk about the new icuiti HMD. Is it 3d? Mopheta: Do you have increased again the FOV? Thank You | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
TigerClaw, your right, it should be another thread. You know how threads work , I thought I could just sneek in on quick question and it snowballs the thread off it's Orig. topic. So this is the last thing then I melt the snowball. Yes in my e-mail to Icuiti I did ask about 3D and the reply was that it will have 3D and as someone else online said the white line problem with 3D will be fixed in the new unit. | ||
| Ben Rating: N/A |
Have to admit, after I've upped the digital vibrance and the refresh sync like Akemi suggested i'm much more pleased with this thing! Good tip! Wonder why you have to change the colour to such an extreme though? seems like the colour calibration is set up all wrong on the display itself? Ben | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
I should have mentioned this before but it is best to not bother using the cord clip under the right side to try and secure the video cord along your head, it just keeps falling out on mine. But if you use the clip that is for the earbud, the cord fits perfectly and it keeps the cable secured and from dangling by the side of your face. Really much better to have the cord clipped on the side than to let it dangle. bigpat | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
TigerClaw, no increase of FOV. It´s the same... like 20-22" monitor using in normal distance y you use the Z800 close to the eyes. But I´m not sure that a very big FOV is a good thing... if you see a 30" normal monitor at 2 feet distance you can rotate the head to see corners, but with a visor you cant do that, so you would strain your eyes more than now. Something more FOV than now would be good, but I think the increase of FOV is not the more needed thing... I think the more needed is to improve optics to disable totally the blur. Blur is important for me not for the blur itself, but it is the most important thing that causes eyestrain. Other important things that can be improved is the contrast and the grainy. If you fly IL-2 you see small pixels fliying around the sky and it´s more difficult to see small aircrafts. A better contrast would be important to view movies with a better black, and surelly it would give more colors quantity and quality to us. But as it is now, this is a very good hardware to use in some circunstances. | ||
| tester Rating: N/A |
What does the headtracker use to detect motion? The Z800 3DVisor's integrated headtracker uses micro-electro-mechanical system (MEMS) accelerometers and gyroscopes to detect motion. The headtracker features three gyroscopes, one each for the X-, Y-, and Z-axis. In addition, the headtracker contains corresponding compasses and accelerometers to ensure performance over varying forms of motion. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Well tester thats one hell of an answer, the rest of the class, just put your hands down. Thanks for that, even the parts I don't get. | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
Water1, tester was copy&pasting good info on emagin web: http://www.emagin.com/3dvisor/html/LearnMore.htm#MEMS (sorry, tester :-) | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
I thought I looked on the website for that. I don't know how I missed it. Thanks for the help. I Still would like to hear how everyone likes the tracker. | ||
| Jesper Rating: N/A |
Yes me too. How is it compared to the "TrackIR 3 Pro Head Tracker" the one on E-D´s site. | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
Jesper, I´ve TrackIR 3pro. The Z800 tracker is good, can be as smooth or better than trackir. You only have 2 DOF, like Trackir without vector expansion, but it is mouse emulation mode only... it is exactly like moving your mouse, but you use your head movements, and you can move with more freedom than trackir because there is not any receiver to have in front of you. Only thing not good is the sofware, that gives not enought options. This software need an option to center the mouse cursor, an option to enable/disable the emulation into any game "in the fly" (like F9 in trackir), other option to use without any "dead zone". And like I´ve read, this hardware support 3DOF, but the sofware now only support 2DOF (the 3rd would be like ZDOF in trackIR using the vector expansion). It is compatible with all games because it is really like a mouse, and you can move the cursor with the headtracker and the mouse at the same if you want. But the eMagin software support is not as good as the Naturalpoint support... I don´t know any Z800 sofware update, and it is needed to improve tracking and other things. | ||
| tester Rating: N/A |
Most companies will read Discussion Boards like this for feedback on how a product is received. Quality feedback both on the positives and negatives may end up making the next release of software better for all users. I personally have gained from reading many of the posts here on how to set up the unit. Along with RTFM. We can hope and expect that eMagin may learn from here, when and if they upgrade the drivers and software interface. Not a bad unit for the first release I hope that it only gets better from here. I want 720p or higher resolution myself. | ||
| tester Rating: N/A |
One thing I have noticed is this HMD it is very tunable. If you do not like the default settings on the Head Tracker because they do not match your style of play then tune on it. eMagin is an engineering company not really a game company. And don’t forget the default settings to return to if needed. Oh and RTFM!! We all forget to do that. | ||
| Jesper Rating: N/A |
Thanks Mopheta but if it mouse emulation how does it work with FS2004. I don´t use that with Track-IR and FS2004. I don´t think FS has any mouse emulation mode?! | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
Finally i've get the correct focus. All blurriness is out, even in the corners. The hint is as others said before, to get the display as near to your eyes as possible. First i found it impossible to get them less far than a centimeter, until i realized that the visor does not only tilt, it has another movement in the optic's main regulator mecanism. It it a little hard to push (for not getting it out easy when playing with it) thats the reason i didnt find it out before RTFM. There's only a false blurriness or focus (i dont know how to call it) efect but i think it is inherent to this tecnology because you are looking at TWO screens, not only at one, so your brain has to put it together. but it is subtle and i dont think is going to disconfort (futher test is needed, of course) This, plus the interpupil distance regulation, which i reguled just one point off the center in both optics, solved the main problem. I like the colors (not as good as crt, of course), and the full 42 fov (before regulation was less because of more distance from my eyes) is quite pleasant. The grainy texture on screen is perhaps the only thing is buggin me a little, but sure i'll forget when i start shooting that 3d giant boss! | ||
| Andy W Rating: N/A |
I have asked this question before, but the number of people saying 'get the display as close to your eyes as possible' prompts me to ask it again. I wear spectacles, so I wouldn't be able to get the displays really close - certainly not as close as a centimeter. Would I have problems with a blurry display? Exactly how close to your eyes do the displays have to be? Do any Z800 users wear spectacles, and what is their experience? Sorry for repeating my question, but... | ||
| BOPrey Rating: N/A |
Is eM releasing an API should I can access the tracker through a program? If there is an API, I can make this work with a lot of games. I sent them a msg a few ago, but no response. | ||
| Jorge Rating: N/A |
Andy, i wear spectacles. No problems in my case. | ||
| Charles Rating: N/A |
Problem: z800 "Software Utility" program won't open. I recently purchased the z800 unit. After connecting the hardware and installing the motion sensor driver and software utility according to the user's manual, the visor works properly in 2-D and 3-D, but the image needs some fine-tuning. Whenever I try to open the software utility, a window pops up stating "TK3DERR -- Sensor Init Error." This is followed by the standard Windows XP message that the program "has encounted an error and must close." I have tried various solutions, including uninstalling and reinstalling the software, without success. eMagin sent a replacement unit and CD-ROM when I informed them of this, but the program still won't open -- so the problem isn't likely to be due to a defective unit. Has anyone else had the problem and found a solution? Any suggestions? | ||
| tester Rating: N/A |
Charles What type of security applications do you run on your system? Think in this direction and see if that may be preventing this from opening correctly. | ||
| Charles Rating: N/A |
Tester: Thanks for the tip. I have ZoneAlarm and Norton Anti-Virus, turned them both off, and still get the error message. I've left a message with eMagin tech support. If they (or I) figure out a solution, I'll post the fix in this discussion group in case someone else has the same problem. | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
The first thing I would do is to find another computer and see if its the same problem there. | ||
| tester Rating: N/A |
Charles, Double check ZoneAlarm under Program Control/Programs and see if when you launch Z800 software utlity, see what becomes an active program, and then increase the trust level of that program. By shutting off Zone alarm should by pass Zone Alarm but something tells me it is going to be Zone Alarm stopping you. | ||
| Ku Rating: N/A |
People with the Z800 setup, give your system spec's and your setup your using, stereo3d drivers and in game setup as to graphic display. What games you've tested, any older games like QuakeGL.. etc. Like in other posts, you really need to work on a fine setup, because just hooking up the glasses and playing seems like not an option without configuring... | ||
| Aza Rating: N/A |
System specs: System 1 - AMD64 2800 (socket 754), Nvidia Geforce 6600GT AGP, 1.5 Gb ram, 78.01 drivers & stereo drivers. System 2 (Acer Aspire 1501LMi laptop) - AMD64, 3000+ (socket 754), ATi mobile Radeon 9600, 768 Mb ram, drivers don't matter as ATi doesn't support stereo anyways. Both systems work fine with the Z800, but only system 1 gives stereo as Nvidia drivers support it. I will only describe system 1 because of that (things just work on system 2 as far as I tested but I have the z800 connected to system 1 all the time right now as the only monitor). I set the drivers to 85 Hz and ingame resolution is 800x600, I had no problems installing the drivers on either system (both Win XP SP2). I found that it is a good idea to set the separation at a low level as it is much easier to the eyes and much more realistic. e.g. You will not see double pointers anymore, but pointers will look to be at a depth instead. And it is much more realistic. The standard value is 25 (of 100) and I found that 15 or 10 already give good effects with the games I tested. I also put the colour saturation in the drivers higher to get more vibrant colours. Tested games: Everquest 1 Morrowind Vampire the masquerade: bloodlines Neverwinter Nights Of these, all except neverwinter nights give very good effects and are very immersive with the proper settings. The problem with neverwinter nights is that text disappears. | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
I notice that Z800 strain my eyes quickly, and I think I´ve callibrated the optics. I don´t know if it is because you have an artificial light just at 1 cm from the eyes, or if it is because you must to force the cristaline to view a near image... or if it is becuase the blur.... I don´t know exactly why, but the result is a quickly strain. I normally can read text during 2 hours without strain using Word or IExplorer on my TFT 19" at 1280x1024. But using Z800 I can´t play more than 20 minutes and I´m tired. Now this strain is more important for me than other quality things, and I usually don´t use Z800 more than 30 minutes/day. | ||
| Ku Rating: N/A |
Tnx Aza, Now stereo separation you have at 25% and not the full 100%? What about the Stereo Gamma settings, does that do anything? In the application profile, do you use the profile they have for that game you would use, and in the global drivers settings are there some things that should be enable like I the Vert sync? Also im not sure if setting the colors to 16mill or 32 makes a differance even know it says the glasses support 24mill. People are right about it beeing blurry, no dout when you place it on you head as they want you to wear it. The optics are just to far from your eye's. You have to put the glasses right up on your eyes and adjust the IPD alittle and then it's really clear. Well for my systems, I have a 2.4 celeron with a geforce 4600, 768 meg xpsp1, drivers are 77.77, I need to get a PCI express Nvidia card for my other system because I have the ati x600. That is a 3.0 P4 so a 6800Gt or better should do. I've tried some glasses in the past and im pretty impressed with the size of the screen the Z800 had. Also I'll add that I have no dead pixels. The cables suck, anyone using longer cables without any interferance. | ||
| Akemi Rating: N/A |
Morpheta wrote: >>>>>>>> Now this strain is more important for me than other quality things, and I usually don´t use Z800 more than 30 minutes/day. What kind of system & graphic cards do you have? Can you enable FSAA and AF? Can you increase refresh rate? Although I don't recommend it for others on Saturday I was able to play at least 12 hours of "Days of Defeat: Source"(DOD:S) with the z800 with all the quality feature enabled without trouble. You might want to try the game to see if your trouble is cause by factors outside of z800. I believe if you have fun & graphics compelling games to play the z800 will allow you to be so immersive in the game that it would diffult to stop playing with it. For me my experience with the z800 also keeps getting better and better the more time I use it. I think if you give yourself sometime to get use to the new interactive environment you would feel more comfortable over time. | ||
| madjack Rating: N/A |
Ok - my impressions so far My setup: Athlon64, 1 gig RAM Geforce6600GT AA 4x Digital Vibrance at full 39 year old pair of eyeballs (I should also point out that I've had no previous experience with HMD's or shutterglasses – apart from one game of Dino Attack in the early nineties and a tryout of an old VFX1 headset-) Have had the Z800 for 5 days now and have a few first impressions. WEIGHT AND FIT are good. The unit's not too heavy and is not prone to slipping about. The weight of the unit rests on the bony ridge of the forehead, which is sensible. At the end of the day though, you're still wearing an apparatus on your head and it's never going to be as comfortable as a monitor on your desk. COLOUR is good. With Nvidia's digital colour enhancement option on full, the displayed colour is very good - no complaints here. BRIGHTNESS is fine - there's only four 'preset' levels, but the 3rd brightest level seems to do it for me. HEAD TRACKING - I don't have experience with other units, but the Z800 tracking seems fine to me (with a little settings tweaking). Some people have complained of the unit not accurately re-centering – I couldn’t clarify if this is the case or not. HEADPHONES/MICROPHONE: I use my own headset with microphone – I found the supplied earpieces too fiddly and prone to falling out. Can’t comment on the effectiveness of the HMD’s microphone. Happily I can have both the HMD and my headphones on without problems. FOV: Could have been a little bigger (although there’s focus problems with the screen size as it is). I use a nineteen inch monitor at my desk and the Z800 screensize is comparable (when my 19” is viewed from my normal sitting position). SCREEN RESOLUTION: 800x600 is ok - this lower resolution can mean picking out distant details in a 3d scene can be problematic (e.g. that sniper hiding in a window way yonder, that enemy plane several kilometres out). Also, to my eyes objects tend to lose detail when scrolling rapidly across the screen – they don’t blur (leave streaks), but they do lose fidelity slightly until the image stabilises. Additionally there are a couple of games I have, that won’t accept 800x600 as an option (SilentHunter3 being fixed at 1024x768, Rome Total War’s strategy map won’t go below 1024x768). It ‘s possible more games in the future won’t allow 800x600 as a min res(?) However the bigger issue with the screen is that it has noticeable grain. It’s ok on areas of low to mid brightness, but in areas of high brightness (such as blue sky), it can give the impression of looking through a window in need of cleaning. This can work against the seeing of subtler details such as cloud structure or lighter textures. It’s very noticeable flying over IL2’s bright, hazy landscapes for example. There is a feature in the Z800 driver panel called pixel clock/phase, but I’m unsure what these do or whether they can ameliorate the problem - I suspect this is just a feature of OLED screens. It is a drawback. 3D EFFECTIVENESS/IMMERSION. Firstly, the Z800’s 3d effect will never have the ‘fidelity’ of depth perception that your own two eyes give you when looking at the real world. In many ways the Z800’s 3d is similar to the sort of depth you may see in a Viewmaster – the scenes have depth, but look a little coarser or ‘miniaturised’ in their display of depth than a real life scene would display to the eye. It is possible to adjust the separation of the images and so enhance the depth perception but be aware that if you crank up the separation too much, you will feel it doing bad things to your eyeballs. Having said that, it is possible to get a real sense of distance. The walled cities in Rome:Total War, for example, with the distant hills as a backdrop are very imposing and majestic. Although individual soldiers may seem to ‘pop’ out coarsely when close by, the massed ranks of soldiers also have an imposing depth. But this brings me to some problems with 3d gaming: Firstly, many games interfaces are not built for 3d. Quite commonly interface elements may appear in one eye only. A common example is either the aiming reticule appears in one eye only, or the reticule appears very close and the object you’re aiming at, is very far. Typically your eyes will be focused on the far object, and the reticule will ‘defocus’ into a double image (having said that, the Nvidia stereo driver has an option for drawing a generic aiming reticule and I need to investigate this further – and you can reduce the image separation to reduce this problem.). The bottom line is that it’s a rare game that won’t need some amount of tweaking to get it running well in 3d. On my system (see specs above) games that are heavy in shaders and which give acceptable but not high framerates on my monitor, can be unplayable under 3d. Doom3 in 3d runs ok (on my rig with all settings reduced) until 2 or more enemies turn up and it becomes a slideshow. Additionally, the shadows for which D3 was touted, do not display correctly in 3d (although more settings tweaking might solve the issue). However, this is not to suggest that it’s not worthwhile playing these games in 2d. I’m looking forward to playing Starship Troopers in 2d for example due to the immersiveness of having an image surrounded by black, fixed in front of your eyes, and the headtracking mainly. (Interestingly the best 3d I’ve found so far has been Vampire Masquerade:Bloodlines. Games which have fairly dark environments and don’t require lots of rapid changes in direction seem to work best for me.) OPTICS: This is the biggest problem with this unit. If the optics had been improved by just 10-15%, I’d be very happy with this unit. As it is, it’s simply impossible to get all of the screen into sharp focus. This may be a problem just due to my aging eyeballs, but reading others comments, I doubt it. It is possible to get pretty close, but to arrive at an acceptable compromise the eyepieces need to be as close to the eyes as the mount will allow and I usually have to spend some time tweaking the sit of the unit to make things acceptable. Any slight shift in the focus will have me adjusting the headset again and again. It’s well that the unit fits so well as the margin of movement for keeping acceptable focus is so tight that If the headset didn’t fit so well on the head and was more prone to slippage, the unit would be a boondoggle. This problem with focus is also important for the following reason. I find that when using this unit, my eyes seem to be focused as if I was looking at a monitor 3 feet or so in front of me. If the part of the screen I’m concentrating on is fuzzy, I sometimes find my focus relaxing and the entire screen falling out of focus for me – particularly when the screen is scrolling. Someone said they thought this was because of the merging of the two screens – but I think this is due to the curved mirrors used in the optic assembly, which gives somewhat of a ‘barrel’ focus. As a test, without wearing the unit, place one of the eyepieces up against your eyesocket and see if you can get everything dead-on – I can’t. Perhaps someone would be brave enough to do a ‘mod’ with their unit and let us all know? To sum up, I am enjoying using this unit but I have reservations. This is not quite a pick up and play unit. I’m irritated (for the amount of money I paid) that the optics are not better and if you haven’t used a HMD before, you’ll be downgrading your expectations as you learn how to use it effectively. The VR dream is ease of use matched with total immersion. The Z800 is not quite that – it’s still a relatively bulky piece of kit sitting on your forehead, with the equivalent of a 19” monitor fixed afore your eyes (that has some noticeable grain). You have to work for your enjoyment with this device and it’s not as suitable as you might think for some types of games. Having said that, on the whole I’m having fun with the unit and looking forward to playing through some upcoming PC titles with the unit firmly in place. | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
well, i can't speak for others experience but there is no blurriness on my optics even at the extreme edges. The sides of the screen appear as undistorted straight lines as they should be. No fishbowl effect. But there was blurriness before I realized that there were two pivot points on the metal bar that connects the part of the visor that rests against your forehead to the displays that hang down from it. I forget which side of the bar was the sticky pivot point but I had to apply a little torque from front to back/top to bottom to adjust it the first time. Though it sounds like madjack followed my advise to take the visor off and put it as close to your eyes as possible to see where it comes into focus. I would also suggest closing one eye at a time because there are a few things you have to adjust and you need to isolate what needs adjusting one at a time. There is distance from the face and tilt which are adjusted by pushing, pulling and tilting the visor. I'd suggest that you do this (either while it is strapped on your head or not) by putting your fingers on the front and top of the silver middle part of the visor and your thumb on the middle black part that is facing you, then pull it all the way forward and then apply some torque and tilt it back and forth until it is right There is also positioning on the forehead. And finally there is sliding in and out of those displays until you get the interpupillary distance right. I think we really probably need some pictures. I think some people might just be afraid to apply too much force and aren't getting it moving. That was my problem at first. Also, someone also asked about the glasses and this is the key point about glasses: bringing the visors displays close to the lenses of the glasses has the same effect as bringing them close to you eyes when you have perfect site or wear contacts. And you will need your glasses if you are nearsighted. bigpat | ||
| madjack Rating: N/A |
Hi bigpat I don't have my unit in front of me right now, so I can't check your point about the pivots, but I am aware of the ability to swing the eyepieces away/towards the eyes (also adjusting their tilt), move the eyepiece unit up/down, adjust the sit of the unit on my head and adjust each eyepiece's interpupillary distance (left/right movement) individually. I am aware of the amount of force required to move the eyepiece fitting to its most extreme position. For me the edges of the screen are in focus as well, but typically I'll find there's a narrow horizontal area of the screen that's 'fuzzed' regardless of the proximity/angle of the eyepieces to my eyes. I usually have to do an amount of tweaking/pushing/pulling to relegate this fuzziness to the bottom of the screen - in fact too much tweaking. I do feel that the unit's optics have too small a margin in finding/keeping that sweetspot. But I might be overlooking something. Be interested in hearing other user's opinions about the focus issue. | ||
| Ku Rating: N/A |
Well Im not gonna use the forehead piece, I took it off today and im trying to work on a solid way of getting the glasses to fit perfectly in my VFX1 helmet.. They are just small enough to sit between the area where you can put 4 screws. When im done I'll try to post pic's step by step. Having them right up against my eye's is a perfect screen. Madjack, I like the spec's on the 39 year eye balls LOL good one! Your right about a few games that rock, most don't but they do add alittle to playing like SOF2, there's not much in differance but the little I see in 3D from 2D wants me to use 3D, I tried playing a Quake mod called Tenebrae and not in 3D, and it still looked awesome. Night ALL Ku | ||
| Mark S Rating: N/A |
madjack I don't have a Z800 yet but I had a look at the optical performance specs Emagin give of the prism viewer system in the Z800, and for high contrast subjects the optical performace at both center and edge of 30 lines per mm is met. The tolerance for eye position is +- 4mm vertical. What this means theoretically at least is that given the right eyeposition there should be litte difference in sharpness across the field. I'm guessing that you might need to pay closer attention to th eye seperation adjustment. If you are percieving the screen as only 3 feet away you must have the seoeration set wrong. perhaps try blinking one eye with one display held sharp while you adjust eye seperation until both screens are in a sweet spot? | ||
| madjack Rating: N/A |
MarkS Perhaps 3 feet was too short an estimation. I have been adjusting the eye separation as well. Let me be clear here about what I'm moaning about ;-). Perhaps what I'm complaining about others wouldn't find objectionable, but to my eyes most of the screen is in focus, but regardless of my tweaking eyepiece positions, parts of the screen always remain 'ghosted'. Now this could be down to my eyesight, but I don't think it is. In fact looking at the unit this evening, I think it's more to do with the lenses being made of plastic. I could well believe that there's a +- 4mm vertical range for image quality. But I feel due to the plastic lenses that the horizontal best field of view is much narrower. | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
I think the cost of Z800 is too expensive for what it gives to us... it´s more an experience than an usefull thing. Most of us we have a good CRT monitor, and Z800 is a downgrade in visual quality. Yes, you have the screen always in front of your eyes, and you have two screen to make a Stereo 3D without ghosting, but.... In my experience, you have better quality with shutterglasses and a good 19" CRT monitor... The FOV is the same, and I prefer shutterglasses ghost images and brightness lost than Z800´s grainy images and blur. And it is too much confortable to use my wireless shutterglasses than this Z800. Also I have no strain using shutterglasses, and I can play with 1024x768 resolution with no blur, sharp images without grainy, and no aditional problems that this visor gives. This visor is interesting if you have only a TFT monitor (without Stereo3D posibilities) and you hate CRTs because the weight and space. Also you can use 2TFTs+mirror, but you will need more space in your desk. I can play with 800x600, but 800x600+blur+grainy = very poor image. | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
I personally think that this optics solution is not a solution. It gives big cons asociated with the blur... blur, asociated strain, and less confort because you must view in a very restricted place to minimize the blur, but it is still there). It´s possible that some day I open my Z800 and quit the plastic optics to see what I see. I prefer a smaller FOV than blur and asociated cons. What FOV can we have without these optics lenses?. Is it easy to dismount?, any danger to the hardware if I do it?. I know I will lose the garanty. Don´t forget that 800x600 is a very good resolution if you see something like a 15" monitor. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Mopheta, Does the Head tracking with a HMD make a game better ? I only ask because in your above post you don't even factor it in. So I realy want to know if head tracking + HMD = better gaming ? | ||
| Charles Rating: N/A |
Reply to Tester's Sep 30 posting: Your hunch was close. The actual program blocking the opening of the z800 software display utility was Norton AntiVirus. Norton was preventing the z800 installation process from installing an essential file. I had to temporarily cripple the Norton AntiVirus (not simply turn it off), then re-install the z800 software. Once this was done, I reactivated Norton, and the z800 software works properly. | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
water1, Z800 mouse tracking is not bad itself, but isn´t very usefull if you have something like TrackIR (I have). The tracking is the only hardware thing in this visor that is well finished, but the software support is poor for this tracking. I´ve written only about the optics because it is the most important thing to have present if anybody is going to buy a visor. But other things like headphones... you can smile... what a poor... you ear interferences and noise, poor sound, and the design is not confortable enought to fit in your ears. You must use another headphones if you want to ear any sound decently. As I said... the price is too expensive for what it gives. Some details in the whole product reveals a low and cheap finish for this prize, and I´m not sure if the optics (the most important) are something that can be improved with a little mor effort or money. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Mopheta, are you useing Track IR for head tracking and if so is it good in FPS games like Half Life ? Do you think Track IR is better than the Z800 Head tracker ? | ||
| anon Rating: N/A |
Mopheat - the price is too expensive? As compared to what? This thing is not perfect - but let's remember it's close to an order of magintude decrease in price from anything with similar capability. Put yours on eBay , there's an active secondary market from what I've seen. YIf you want better optics they are available- the units that use them weigh close to twice as much and cost at least 5 times as much. What did you think you were buying here , a holodeck? I have had absolutely no problem with the audio , and was actually quite surprised with the comfort and quality. I too am looking forward to the next iterations of these things, but what were some of you guys expecting, really? | ||
| windelfried Rating: N/A |
hey mopheta !!! did you every tried another hmd with headtracking, with this fov, this very good contrast, flickerfree with better optics and with less weight ?? please tell me i will buy it too !!! for me the z800 it's the absolutly best toy for stereo 3d gaming on the market today ... | ||
| bigpat Rating: N/A |
madjack, I know what you are talking about with the horizontal line of distortion. But I can make it go away with adjustment and eliminate other distortions. I don't mean to harp, but I just want to make sure you got it since it took me a good while to figure it out. Or at least it might save some people that just got the visor a few minutes of frustration. Take a look at: http://photos1.blogger.com/img/130/4155/320/IMG_3448.jpg There is a pivot point on both sides of that little metal bar that hangs down from the forehead strap. The top pivot is what really brings the visor closer to your face and comes in the box as if you were wearing glasses like / (which is how it is in the picture) when it should be like \ to bring it closer to the face for those of us without glasses, while the bottom pivot really just helps adjust tilt. Now that I think of it, it was that top pivot that was the hardest to get to move. Again sorry to harp on it if that isn't a problem for you. If not then hopefully my description might help others. I haven't looked back at the manual to see if that adjustment is properly explained and diagramed. But I am not really one to read manuals. The biggest problem for me is that my forehead moves around and crinkles so I can go out of focus during game play. So, I do find myself adjusting the z800 maybe every 5 minutes or so for comfort and to eliminate and sliding around it may have done on my head. And it is always a compromise between how tightly to strap it on and how often you want to readjust. But I don't see how you can engineer around that problem without very bulky or more uncomfortable equipment, maybe even a full helmet would still have some problem. I've played for hours without noticable eye strain, perhaps less than my regular monitor. But I could see how you would strain if the z800 was left out of focus. Sure you could increase the tolerance for being out of position on the optics, but wouldn't that just mean that it would bring the apparent optical focus closer to your face? Meaning that the visor as designed has an focus which is some distance away from your face (say 15 ft) if you brought the focus closer you could probably keep the image in focus over a greater range of position but you would not be "looking" at a far away image anymore rather it would be closer to your face. It has been a while since I took an optics class, so forgive my sloppy language. Plastic optics aren't a problem. Plastic has certain optical properties like every other transparent material and is probably a lot easier to work with and manufacturer to the unique shape of this lense or any other that you would need for an HMD. Not to mention plastic is probably going to be a lot lighter. But the material has nothing to do with the focus of the optics. It just means that the curvature has to be take into account the coefficient of refraction of the material. Otherwise the only difference in optical quality would be how much light actually is transmitted through the material, which seems good in the z800. bigpat | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
I have said that the prize is high not thinking in the comparison with other HMDs, I was making myself a comparison with a good CRT + shutterglasses + trackir + headphones + microphone, and these things gives me more quality and less strain, the cost is lower, and it is too much more compatible and usefull for other things. water1, TrackIR is not intended to use with HL2. But I don´t use the Z800 tracking to control this game. It is a good experience and interesting to track, but it is not playable because you have a little death zone in the Z800 driver enought to difficult the aiming and so you will prefer the mouse, and you have not any centering hotkey in the Z800 driver, and you need it very frequently. If you use the tracking to play games like FS2004, it is too much better TRackIR because it is 6DOF and the driver offer you too much better precision about the centering and axes acelerations. Inclusive games that only support 2DOF are better with TrackIR only because the software options. But the Z800 tracking is good enought... it is not the problem of this visor, and always I´ve understand it as an extra thing to apreciate, but not the reason to buy. I repeat, forgeting comparison with other HMDs (of course can be better than others), this visor has to be better with blur and grainy because it is very important... it is the most important, and it is not good enought. See that I´m not writting about resolution because all we know this limitation, and I´m not having in mind this to make my opinion. anon, It is possible that you have not any problem with audio, but I have these noises with two different PCs. But it is only a little problem. If I stay in silence I ear these noise, and if there is some sound this noise is not perceptible. But also forgetting the noise, the sound quality is not good. I can use the headphones perfectly, but I have seen too much better headphones at this size... and if you have in mind the position, the desing is not very good to fit in your ears. A good thing is that you can replace the headphones easy (I have not done it), but the noise will be present surely. | ||
| madjack Rating: N/A |
water1 'So I realy want to know if head tracking + HMD = better gaming ? ' Depends. My setup has been a single 19" monitor on my desk (I've never tried shutterglasses). The Z800 is definitely more immersive than that, mainly through having an image surrounded by black, fixed before your eyes (leaving 3d aside), and it allows you more freedom to sit back comfortably or even stand up than a desktop monitor allows. An analogy might be that you go to the movies and feel you have a more immersive experience than watching a movie on your tv, even though maybe your tv might give a similarly sized image. If you have a better monitor set up than the above you might have a less charitable view on the unit's merits. The headtracking only really comes into its own where the view direction does not dictate the direction of movement(e.g. flight sims), else you'll probably find yourself relying on mouselook for finer control. Anon 'I too am looking forward to the next iterations of these things, but what were some of you guys expecting, really? ' As a paying customer I reserve the right to criticise aspects of this product - it's as simple as that. Bigpat Yep, sorted the movement of the metal bar and have it pushed up and towards me as far as possible. I'm not up on optical engineering but I understand your point that it's not the lens material (plastic), but the focal requirements that are making the sweetspot tricky to get and keep (although I'd be interested if glass lens/prisms would improve the situation. Don't know how that could be tested - would be quite an extensive mod I guess and I'm very reluctant to start pulling my unit apart). And like you I also find I can use the unit for extended periods without too much problem (if I take regular breaks), which is really important. Don't know how shutterglasses compare for eyestrain. In fact I think what eyestrain I do experience is more due to the stereo separation factor than focal distance of the image. But don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying this product. It was a bit of an expensive toy, but I'd be reluctant to send it back. Played some Morrowind last night and the stereo 3d was just beautiful. | ||
| jddcp Rating: N/A |
How good is the z800 really?? I just bought a Dell M170 laptop with the NVIDIA GO 7800 and I was thinking about getting the Emagin to go with it? Is it a lot better than gaming with regular glasses and a tracking device?? How do HL2, Doom 3, BF2 ect look on the z800 in 3d? Bottom line is it really worth $900 dollars???? | ||
| madjack Rating: N/A |
Can anyone answer the above's question as to whether it's better/worse than shutterglasses + track? My answer to your last question is that it's an expensive purchase for what it does and that if $900 represents a huge chunk of change to you, you're likely to be disappointed. | ||
| Aza Rating: N/A |
Whether it is worth it is different for each person. It is still an expensive toy in the end used to play games in 3D and watch movies. It is not perfect and you may get some lazy pixels and it is not easy to find the right focus sometimes, but the best option for a HMD at this time for the money. So the question whether it is worth it would have a different answer for each person. For me it was worth it. | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
The ranking in my opinion: 1st.- Two LCD monitors with a mirror. The best visual quality (it´s near perfect). But your head must be in the same place always with a mirror just in your nose, today the Nvidia driver is not compatible with some important games, you need a front surface mirror to have no ghost, you need 2 monitors whith the same size, you need more space in the desk, and you need to put the mirror in the exact angle. 2nd.- CRT+shutterglasses. You have worse quality because ghosting and bright lost, but it is the cheapest way, you have more freedom, and the Nvidia driver is today more compatible. You need a good CRT monitor. 3rd.- Z800 visor. No bright lost and no ghosting, but blur, grainy, and svga resolution limit make the visual quality worse than shutterglasses. You have the better freedom movement and mouse tracking, and the Nvidia compatiblity is the same than with shutterglasses. More eyestrain and high prize. None of the three systems is perfect. Z800 visor needs better visual quality (more resolution, no grainy, and no blur) to be the best. It is only my opinion... I´ve tested the three systems. | ||
| Jesper Rating: N/A |
I will add something to this CRT+Shutters+Fresnel. To top it of, a headtracker. http://www.icetec-uk.com/icetec/icetec_v3/index.htm The fresnel is really something, it's really worth the money. This is a cheap immersive option. | ||
| Mark S Rating: N/A |
I don't understand these comparisons at all. Isn't this `apples and oranges' ? I have tried mirror system and shutterglasses. Sure the quality is great but I thought the Z800 was about giving you a feeling of immresion in space because the feeling of your inner ear when turning matches the movement of your eye view. I find no such feeling of immersion in real space with the other two methods. There has not been much comment about the effectiveness of the Z800 in doing this. While I'm on the subject, I can't see how anyone uses the Track IR3 with it. I imagine that the unnatural mapping of head turn to view movement would cause nausea very quickly. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Has anyone tried magnifying glasses with the Z800? | ||
| madjack Rating: N/A |
'Has anyone tried magnifying glasses with the Z800? ' Eh? Do you mean placing additional lenses against the eyepieces to increase the FOV? | ||
| Anonymous Rating: N/A |
Ordinary reading glasses with positive diopter values (+1.25, +3, etc.) are actually simple magnifying lenses. Since the z800 is designed to fit over spectacles, maybe a forum member who has a z800 and uses reading glasses will be kind enough to conduct a test and post the results. Thanks :-) | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Yes madjack, that is what I ment. Anonymous Thank's, that is how I should of said it. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
The Kind of 2X or 3X magnifying glasses you can buy at a drug store. | ||
| Mark S Rating: N/A |
Someone mentioned in earlier post that +1.25 glasses were usable with the Z800. Cheap reading glasses are available in some shops, so easy to try. I found +1 dioptre useful for getting closer to my 19" screen, and bought a good pair of clip on specs to go over my glasses. As the infinity focus of Z800 is supposed to be set at 12 feet, the amount of extra magnification you can use will depend on how yound you eyes are, as to whether you can still focus on the screen with extra dioptres of correction. | ||
| TigerClaw Rating: N/A |
Mopheta: You have a fresnel setup, I have read it in another forum (or I have to say you have ALL type of VR systems :D ) can you please make a review of that system in a new thread? For all: you can find a goog thread about Fresnel lenses here: http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t3308.html Now I will stop the OT :D | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
Yes, I´ve 3 different fresnel lenses (very good and cheap lenses), but I only use to test. I tested with a 19" LCD monitor, and the image is good and big, but I don´t use usually because you need your head always just in front to obtain the image focused... The image is good, but in corners you have a bit of blur. With fresnel lenses you only have a big image, nothing of Stereo3D, and the depth is not perceptible. I think it is not interesting if you have a good monitor... it is not confortable to use. Forget it. But it is too much easy to focus the image than with the Z800, and the image result is too much better too. | ||
| Alex Rating: N/A |
English is little tricky, you use the words" too much" I think it would be better to use "so much" instead. Too much is something else. Hope I didn't offend you. | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
>> The ranking in my opinion: >> >> 1st.- Two LCD monitors with a mirror. The >> >> best visual quality (it´s near perfect). But >> your head must be in the same place always >> >> with a mirror just in your nose >> >> 2nd.- CRT+shutterglasses. You have worse >> >> quality because ghosting and bright lost, but >> it is the cheapest way >> >> 3rd.- Z800 visor. No bright lost and no >> >> >> ghosting, but blur, grainy, and svga >> >> >> >> resolution limit make the visual quality >> >> worse than shutterglasses. >> >> None of the three systems is perfect. Z800 >> >> visor needs better visual quality (more >> >> >> resolution, no grainy, and no blur) to be the >> best. It is only my opinion... I´ve tested >> >> the three systems. >> Hello again Mopheta. It's been a while since I've checked this forum and I see it's very busy with a lot of good information. I will keep checking it in the future not only for the Z800 but the Fresnel lens I have bee looking at. At Bugeye they have a 3 monitor setup with fresnel lens using 15 inch monitors. Problem for me was the 15 inch monitors and the price. $2500. They did lower the price a bit but it was still too expensive for me. http://www.bugeyetech.com/products.html I read about using reading glasses with the Z800 and I do use them. Mine are +2.25 and they work ok. I have another pair that are +3.00 and they don't work well. I took some pictures of my equipment today to show I really do have the 3D shutter glasses, the TrackIR and the Z800. There are some people on the internet who would like to lie and tell you they had such n such. http://xs51.xs.to/pics/05424/z800-plus.jpg or http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs51&d=05424&f=z800-plus.jpg The Shutters have been laying here wrapped in a paper towel to protect them. the Z800 also has a protective tissue and the TrackIR needs some more tape to hold it on top of the monitor. The only thing keeping me from using the Z800 is the TrackIR with the expansion clip and spanning 2 monitors is so much better than the Z800 resolution. But if you ask, I am still glad I have the Z800. Using the TrackIR with the Z800 works very well for me. No nausea or dizziness or eyestrain. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
akita77, Does the TrackIR work well with first person shooters like HL2? | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Hi water1. The only game I've used the z800 with is FS2004. I did try to find a demo of a FPS but I don't remember downloading one. But from what I see using it in the simulator I would think it would be great in a FPS. If I get a chance soon I'll try to find one I can check with. akita77 | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Ok Thanks akita77, It would be a big help. I think I have asked this question about the TrackIR and FPS before but just can't get an answer from anyone, So it would be a big help to hear from you on the subject. Thanks agaig akita77.. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
"Thanks agaig akita77"...LOL Thanks again akita77...Now that sound better...LOL | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
TrackIR is not good to play FPS games like HL2 or Doom3. For these games is better the Z800 headtracking, but I prefer not use any of them for these games, only the mouse and keyboard. TrackIR is not a mouse tracker. Games must recognize the hardware to use it, and only some games can do it. There is an application to emulate mousetracking, but is not good and tracking is not well done. If a game support TrackIR it is better than Z800 headtracking. You have a complete list of supported games in the TrackIR web page. I personally would prefer Z800 headtracking because is just a mouse and then it is compatible with all games and it is as smooth as TrackIR, but you must center and recenter a lot of times and you have a little dead zone, and this make the tracking not very good to use in games if you need precision. I suppose that would be better with better sofware support, but seem to be no intention to make it better. | ||
| anon Rating: N/A |
Well Unclebob you should be happy now looks like there are professional reviews out there. PCmag.com MaximumPC Gamespot etc | ||
| pierreye Rating: N/A |
One of the game that will be a good fit for HMD is Mechwarrior 4. I still remember it support mouse look and joystick for controlling the movement of the mech. | ||
| AdamG Rating: N/A |
Is the cyberstick 2 best for z800 and shooters? -Plz no response from Stewart and various alts, I know YOU think its the best. | ||
| Akemi Rating: N/A |
>One of the game that will be a good fit for HMD is Mechwarrior 4 Yet it is. I tried the Vengeance version with z800 and Saitek X52 joystick. 3D Stereo works and the game is rather fun but the graphics is outdated. | ||
| Carl Rating: N/A |
Akemi since you are a shareholder with emagin I would not take anything you say as unbiased. | ||
| vincy Rating: N/A |
Just a few minor points: Charles: I am pleased you fixed the driver loading problem. I had this problem for a week and Emagin advised me to switch off Norton Antivirus and ZoneAlarm etc. This was not the actual problem. It turned out that Windows XP would not load any driver program without a Microsoft certification. So I disabled the control panel setting for it and the problem vanished. Madjack: Thanks for telling us your frank opinions on the z800. I share many of your sentiments. My eyes are fourty years old and I have never needed glasses. I know blur when I see it. I would like Emagin to improve the optics so text and spreadsheets are clearly readible on the z800, particularly for the business community to take this product seriously. It is necessary for the sustainability of the z800 that as many customers as possible buy the z800 -not only the gamers. I would like to see emagin get on top of all the useability issues discussed on the forum - soon - for all users. Other1: Before buying my z800, I experimented with revelator wireless shutterglasses on my 17 inch CRT. I got impressive results using "one diopter" (1+) reading glasses nested inside my shutterglasses. It was a perfect fit. The glasses moved the focal plane of my monitor way deeper into the screen and I felt much less eyestrain. I still think shutterglasses are way underappreciated by the general public. Other2: There is a revolutionary home design program which makes use of 3d games technology and is compatible with the z800. Its worth a look - please visit www.myvirtualhome.com.au . Thanks. | ||
| water1 Rating: N/A |
Here is a new review of the Z800 http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1879585,00.asp | ||
| AdamG Rating: N/A |
thanks, good read. | ||
| Anon Rating: N/A |
Nice, honest review. Very refreshing to see. | ||
| akita77 Rating: N/A |
Actually it told me I did not setup my Z800 correctly. I have to make some changes and then use that review to set it up. that was a good revirw I think. akita77 | ||
| Akemi Rating: N/A |
eMagin Z800 3DVisor Receives Prestigious CES Best of Innovations Award; Honored in Two Categories - Digital Displays and Electronic Gaming Business Wire - November 16, 2005 11:47 BELLEVUE, Wash., Nov 16, 2005 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Virtual Imaging went mainstream when eMagin Corporation's (AMEX:EMA) Z800 3DVisor was honored as the Best of Innovations in the Digital Displays Category. The product also won Design and Engineering Innovation Honors in the Electronic Gaming category. eMagin's Z800 3DVisor is the world's first combination of high resolution OLED-based stereovision, advanced 360 degree headtracker and stereo sound for a 3D experience that puts viewers inside games or movies. "We are honored to receive both of these prestigious awards for our Z800 3DVisor. In particular, the award in the Digital Displays category validates both the Z800 3DVisor and the emerging role of virtual displays in the consumer market," said Susan Jones, executive vice president and chief marketing officer, eMagin Corporation. "While virtual reality was a concept ten years ago, it has taken a number of advances to deliver a convincing virtual image today." The award was officially announced last night in New York City at the 2006 International CES Press Preview. The "Best of Innovations" is awarded to the product in each category that receives the highest level of points as judged by a preeminent panel of independent industrial designers, independent engineers and members of the trade press based on user value, aesthetics, contributions to quality of life, and innovative design and qualities. eMagin's Z800 3DVisor tied with LG Electronics 50-inch Wireless Plasma Display to take top honors in the competitive Digital Display category. The Best of Innovations honorees will be part of a special display at International CES, January 5 - 8, 2006, in Las Vegas, Nevada in the Las Vegas Convention Center Grand Lobby and will be featured at CES Unveiled, the Official Press Event of CES on January 3, 2006, from 4:00-7:00 pm in the Bellini Ballroom at the Sands Expo and Convention Center in Las Vegas. Best of Innovations and Design and Engineering Showcase honorees products will also be featured in the Innovations Plus area of the Sands Expo and Convention Center. The Z800 3DVisor delivers a high-color, high-contrast virtual image equivalent to a 105-inch screen viewed at twelve feet, in full-color stereovision. The Z800 3DVisor's high-speed head tracking enables 360-degree viewing. Completing this experience is an integrated, audio system with high-fidelity ear buds and a built-in, noise-canceling microphone. To power all these capabilities, the 3DVisor requires only a standard USB port and can greatly extend a laptop's battery life when it's used instead of the standard LCD. Based on eMagin's OLED (organic light-emitting diode) microdisplays and patented optics, the Z800 3DVisor is eMagin's first product sold directly to consumers (www.3dvisor.com) The company supplies its OLED microdisplays, optics, and near-eye viewing modules, as well as customizable systems, to OEM and ODM manufacturers. eMagin displays have proven to be low-power, rugged, near-eye displays in industrial, military, and medical environments for applications ranging from 3D simulation to thermal imaging to augmented reality. About OLED At the heart of the Z800 3DVisor, eMagin's active matrix OLED (organic light-emitting diode) microdisplays deliver high speed, high-resolution (800 X 3 X 600), high-color imagery for near-eye applications. Because OLED materials emit light, the displays are thinner and lighter than conventional LCDs, and they require less power, permitting this product to be created without a need for added battery packs or power adapters. OLED microdisplays offer higher contrast and a wider dispersion of light, making them more comfortable to view and usable for near-eye applications. eMagin's 3D OLED microdisplays recognize and deliver left-eye and right-eye stereovision signals with unsurpassed efficiency. Color pixel data is buffered under each pixel site, eliminating flicker and smear. http://www.emagin.com/asp/press_releases.asp http://www.cesweb.org/attendees/awards/innovations/rd_2006honorees.asp | ||
| Quit the Damn Z800 Marketing! Rating: N/A |
Akemi since you are a shareholder with emagin I would not take anything you say as unbiased. | ||
| Everyone with a Emagin Z800 3D Visor post reviews here Rating: N/A |
Everyone with a Emagin Z800 3D Visor post reviews here | ||
| AlbusD Rating: N/A |
Unbiased? Yeah he probably wrote that press release himself,huh?. I agree it's the wrong thread for the post, but hey - it's a free country - if akemi wants to market the product here - this is the target market. Who cares , just skip over it. | ||
| Carsten Rating: N/A |
Hi there, I just bought one Z800 visor. I am still in a period of try and error. Main error is by the time, that I see the mouse twice. So is the crosshair (conterstrike:source). Has anyone someidea, how to bring mouse and crosshair into the game? Thank You | ||
| Steve93138 Rating: N/A |
I just got my Z800 and since it costs quite a bit, I wanted to share my experience with everyone who is thinking about putting down some cash for one. My recommendation: Go buy one if you can afford it or get the X800 when it’s ready and a TrackIR. DELIVERY: I ordered it from Amazon and got it in 2 days. Been playing with it for a little while now and it's awesome. THE SCREEN SIZE: The screen is much bigger than some people here claim. I have a 19" monitor on my desk and this thing looks more like a 21" monitor when sitting at about the same distance (2 feet). Regardless of what many people claim, when you are "in the game", it's PLENTY immersive and you don't really think about it anyway. It's like watching a movie - you are so engrossed in the movie, you don't think about the screen size. And besides, your monitor is probably smaller in relation to what Z800's screen looks like anyway. 3D SHUTTER GLASSES VERSUS Z800: I have been using eDimensional's 3D glasses in the past. The Z800 blows away 3D shutter glasses because you get a bright screen and absolutely no noticeable flicker. In addition, because the Z800 uses page flipping for stereo mode instead of interlaced scan lines for 3D stereo rendering, you don't get additional pixelation introduced into the image. You also don't get a performance hit when using anti-aliasing (like you do with 3D glasses) so the bottom line is that you get a MUCH better image with the Z800 and also MUCH better performance. I know all of this because I used to program 3D applications and I know how shutter glasses work. As far as the nvidia stereo drivers are concerned, they are not perfect. Some here have complained about how you don’t appear to get fluid motion when you turn your head. Well you would be right, but this is not the fault of the Z800’s design but of the drivers and the software. I’m a programmer so I know what is causing this. I’m going to try to explain it. You get visual anomalies because the left and right eye images are not in "sync". It would be comparable to filming a movie using a stereo camera expect the camera would alternate between the left and right eye for each frame instead of taking them together at the same time for each frame. So the way this works for the nvidia 3D stereo drivers is that a left eye image is rendered, the scene moves as you rotate your head and then the right eye scene is rendered. You continue to move your head and it starts with the left eye again. This is how the drivers and software implements this and it’s just plain wrong!!! Each frame should be in sync!!! I'm sure that if this HMD thing takes off that driver and software developers will overcome this current limitation. HEAD TRACKING: I haven’t gotten much of a chance to use the Z800 head tracking but from what I have tried so far, my verdict is to stick with my TrackIR and forget the whole thing. Quite frankly, I don't like the head tracking in the Z800 mainly because it does not center properly. That's what makes the TrackIR so nice. In addition, when you are sitting in a chair and gaming with an HMD, you don't need (or want) to turn your head 180 degrees to look behind you anyway. Synchronizing your head movement with reality doesn’t always make sense in this “virtual” reality. What’s more, you could trip over the cord and break your Z800 and I don’t think you want to do that. The TrackIR also has many other features such as x,y,z axis movement and roll. You just can’t get that with the Z800 head tracker. At the time of this writing, the eMagin’s X800 has not been released but I would have bought that instead of the Z800. Of course, I couldn’t wait for my virtual experience!!! DISCLAIMER: No, I am in no way affiliated with eMagin but I wrote this to dispel some of the myths surrounding it out of sheer appreciation for eMagin who has come out with something that could have cost $20,000 just 5 years ago. Thanks eMagin and if you are reading this, please release a 1024x768 version soon! | ||
| Steve93138 Rating: N/A |
I may have to take back what I said about the left/right eye rendering driver problem. I say "may" because only Half-Life 2 appears to work that way but I could be wrong about that too. Lock-On looks awesome though and is playable. You can even read the HUD. :-) | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
Is there any way to modify the RGB colors using windows xp or Nvidia drivers, to callibrate and reduce the "yellow" tendence of these OLED displays?. I have used the Nvidia vibrance option, but in my opinion is not a solution, only gives us more saturation but the problem is still present and seem like unrealistic colors. | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
Another problem that I think can be solved is the sound. Too much interferences, and I don´t know if the cause is a poor quality of the headburns or a more complex hardware problem. Now I´m using my plantronics headphones because these interfecences, with another wire cable in the desktop and would be good to use the z800 solution. | ||
| Mopheta. Rating: N/A |
I have discovered how to callibrate the colors using Nvidia drivers. Now my Z800 is another thing..... I´m loving..... With this callibration and using a high brigtness can compete with my TFT screen in visual quality. Optics is not perfect, but the visuals are better than I thought. Headburns audio and blurring corners are still a problem, but I´m loving this visor now. And once you know how to use, it is not as strain for eyes as I thought. I can use it 2 hours and I´ve not eyestrain. | ||
| Sergey Rating: N/A |
i will wait for 1024 release. I plaeyd 800*600 - this resoulution make some games interface look crapy most of rts are not working becouse of it and etc. Also i hope they will fix that issues with optics. Also i hope their competitors will do smth on market. So i wait abother year... | ||
| Rob Rating: N/A |
is there going to be a 1024 release? id buy that in a second! | ||
| Manta Rating: N/A |
Hi Mopheta. How did you calibrate the colors? Any help will be really appreciated. | ||
| Steve93138 Rating: N/A |
I wound up returning my Z800 because I never could get this thing into focus completely! I will be spending my money on other toys for now... | ||
| Mopheta Rating: N/A |
Manta, there is a 3d party utility to calibrate if you need: http://www.3dvisor.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106 Also you can do something with the Nvidia control panel playing with RGB values in the color section. I like this "toy", but it is not perfect, we all know. I think that only 800x600 is an important limit, but today my graphic card (Nvidia 6800)has not power to move new games with stereo and more resolution (if you want play smooth). I think the optics is a more important problem because causes a quick eyes strain. But it is a nice toy... I am thinking about future games using 1280x1024 and no blur... (with better graphic cards to move these resolutions in stereo). | ||
| Manta Rating: N/A |
Thank you so much for the link. Now it's a different story. IMHO, beside its limitations, I think the Z800 is the best product in that price range. | ||
| raym hensley (Raym) New member Username: Raym Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
If I were to play Quake or Doom with the Z800, would I be able to look up and down as well as left to right, like I can with a Trimersion? Mahalo. | ||
| VResources (Vresources) New member Username: Vresources Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
We just posted a review. Please find it at: http://vresources.org (it can currently be reached from the frontpage or in the library section.) Regards | ||
| Nezih Kanbur (Byteman) New member Username: Byteman Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2009 Rating: N/A |
I also want to share my personal opinion about the z800 HMD, in order to prevent new buyers from potential disappointments: You must be aware that some of the problems on my device, may be specific to a faulty device that has been sent to me, but the device has been sent to Vrealities plus Emagin for repair/replacement and I'll be sharing my opinion about the device after it's sent back to me: Optics are real problem on my device, too. Every part of the screen cannot be focused, just as it has been told by Concerned Buyer. The reason for my sending the device back was a worse focus problem. Image was very badly blurred and distorted as if the optics were bent in someway. The unit was sent back and repaired. Right now, one part of the each screen focuses very well while the other parts are a slightly blurred. You can't wear 10 minutes without having etremely tired eyes. I personally look at any type of 3D image source for several minutes (even watch movies cross eyed) But I have never felt this tired with only 10-20 minutes of looking at even a non stereoscopic image. Since several portion of both images are out of focus you can't look at text screens ergonomically. Your eyes begin to get wet very soon. Looking at images is much better since you don't notice the blur when there is no contrast. But eventually you get extremely tired very soon. (The bright light infront of you eyes also has some percent responsibility on this) + if the image is stereo it gets worse (as a result of both the standard focusing effects 3D viewing phenomena and the noticable flickering of the 60Hz refresh rate.) I didn't think that refresh rate would have importance on the image since it doesn't have on LCD screens, but due to the working principle of shutter glass type of stereo images flicker just the same as on active shutter glasses. (On stereo mode only) There is no flicker on 2D Windows screen. About the focus problems, the image is best when eyepiece is closest to your eye, (as they say on their webste) you can notice that. Alignment of the optic system with your eye is very important. One eyepiece must be exactly perpendicular to your eye's major axis. but since the casing is not so stable, eyepieces can not be aligned at all. Very little movements and rotations change the image quality (focusing) greatly. Think of it this way: I forcibly hold both eyepieces perpendicular to my both eyes (To do it I bend them by a little force) until I have the best image. (There are stil unfocused areas)When I leave it everything comes back to its original. The casing also creates a problem on focusing. It's never aligned perfectly with your eye-since only allowed movement is on horizontal axis. About the automatic turning off function, it's controlled by the motion sensor and if you don't move the goggles for 5 minutes, it turns the screen off. You can disable this by disabling the motion sensor and if you need the motion sensor it's not much problem since you already move your head. On my OLED screens there are several bright and dark pixels. For example on a single color filled screen many pixels have darker and lighter colours. There is even one completely black pixel. The color variation on the pixels can be reduced by increasing the brightness from the device. On the highest brightness setting some unwanted ghosting becomes annoyingly visible, but you don't use brightness that high. I prefer one step previous brightness level than the highest. This ghosting I mention is again very likely to be a problem on my device. It seems like a setting problem, but you can not set (may be with the Lab tool but, if I could get it running) you know on some CRT monitors when you move the image excessively to the left or right by horizontal position function, that side of the image comes out from that side like it's reflected. It's the ghost image of that reflection kind of thing you see on some monitors. If the same image stays on the display, it burns rapidly and you see the stains of the previous image for some time. Motion sensor is not perfect. The embedded acceleratomater is not precise enough to catch lower speeds. If you rotate about yourself in 15 seconds (that fast) the built-in sensor doesn't recognize any motion at all. It can be even worse. There is also an annoying drifting effect, which is mentioned on many websites. You start looking at a picture on the wall, and just after a few head turns with varying speeds, you may find yourself looking at the ceiling. You may need very sharp head turns to make it obey your rules. Anyhow I still like it. You get used to the drift and you learn to control it. It's just like learning to control a tablet pen. My screen colors have a yellow-greenish tint. Very different from any monitor color. But it can be adjusted by either some tool or the graphics card settings. Worst thing about z800 nowadays is you can not setup the device on geforce 8x and above graphics cards. I still use with my old GT 6600. But many games do not support those old cards. There are rumors that you can use the Iz3D driver. How shameful this is for the company. They sell a $1500 device and it can't work at all anymore. I personally would not recommend anyone to buy z800 without seeing it because it will most likely be a disappointment for a users with a little bit high expectations. Consider twice and see the unit before actually buying if you can. | ||
| Luis Zapata (Yomer) New member Username: Yomer Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2008 Rating: N/A |
So Byteman, Are you selling your Z800? Or do you still want to keep them with the defects mentioned? | ||
| Nezih Kanbur (Byteman) New member Username: Byteman Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2009 Rating: N/A |
It has been a dream to me for years, to see stereo in full colours, and use it in architectural walkthrus. It would be beautiful to put your customer inside his house before it's even built. He could see around by simply turning his/her head. He could change the look of his floors by just a snap of his fingers. I see now that the quality of the imaging of HMDS (at least the low price ones) are not enough to say "I do something more than ordinary renders." There is also another fact about HMDs that contributes to this opinion: Stereo images with transparent glasses of any kind are far more better compared to an HMD, because it limits the entire depth of the scene between your eye surface and the lens about 1 inch away. I couldn't get the taste that I expected. (I was obviously expecting more than I should) May be the FOV should be higher. I'm not sure. I ve made 5-6 stereoscopic 3D (medical) animations in the past, that I normally view with anaglyph glasses. I can view them on the z800. Viewing them on a projector with anaglyph glasses takes you more into it. (I can't say the same for gaming- you can't play games with anaglyph glasses) I was wondering why stereo imaging isn't spread as widely as it should be; this may be the answer to the question. I would consider selling it, but I still questions to answer and some doubts so I still wish to keep it until my questions are answered. My concerns about z800 are a combination of several factors. First of all I couldn't yet set it up on my new graphics cards. If it ever won't work on geforce 8x series cards, the unit is trash to me. I can only use it on a gt6600 but I can't run several software on that card. We have a proverb in Turkish for the situation: We say "A stick with shit on both ends." Thanks to NVidia for the selfish policy. Apart from all the image quality issues, this was my primary dissappointment. Rain or shine, I used to look through plastic stereo slide viewer goggles in the past with excitement. A stereo oled display is a "DSLR" version of those "SLR" kind of slide viewers. Software can also greatly affect the quality of 3D stereo. So I gave up trying for some time until it works on newer cards. This is a serious situation infact. They're still selling the z800. If you ask, they tell you to check the compatibility list. (Yes! with a LITTLE bit closed kind of statement they say "check compatibility with Nvidia driver version 94.blah blah - which means in short words- if you have a NEW!! graphics card -you can't use it. Those new cards are even old today. If I decide to sell it after a few months, I still don't want to sell anyone anything that would soon become a dissappointment for him, too. Only if anyone says, "I know all the issues about z800 and still want to buy." Still there is a problem: I live in Turkey, and not much people needs such a device here. I also hate to send things abroad. I've had enough of it during the repair process of this device. I normally would show the unit to the buyer before he pays for it, but this time there seems no way to do that. Customs here is a real pain in the ass. The only way seems to send it to one of my relatives in the US. He can handle the selling procedure. Do you need to buy a second hand z800? If I wish to sell it, how can we do that? I'd love to know. Regards (Message edited by Byteman on July 02, 2009) | ||
| Luis Zapata (Yomer) New member Username: Yomer Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2008 Rating: N/A |
Actually, there is a firmware upgrade which lets you use iZ3D drivers with the Z800. The problem is that if your unit doesn't have a P/N ending in -03 (the number is located under the controller box), that would mean that yours doesn't have the latest firmware installed. Therefore you would have to buy the firmware upgrade chip from emagin and then buy the iZ3D drivers if you like them. So, in the end did you get your HMD fixed on the focus problems? About buying it from you. I think I'll be waiting for the cheaper VR1440 from Vuzix, which are going to be released this year. | ||
| Luke Keppler (Gamelore) New member Username: Gamelore Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2009 Rating: N/A |
One thing to keep in perspective is the price of the z800 dropped to around $550 for a long time. I waited a little too long to take advantage of the sale, and it went up to this new triple "fake" price a couple years back. The "real" price is ~$550. Any new HMD should be judged with respect to ~$550, not $1500, for a z800. (Message edited by gamelore on July 02, 2009) | ||
| Nezih Kanbur (Byteman) New member Username: Byteman Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2009 Rating: N/A |
First time focus problems were absolutely bad. That is fixed. However device itself is not perfect. Optics is not that good, or it's may be the non-robust casing. One part of screen is focused while another is not. It's never fully perfectly in focus. This one is not a problem of my device I guess. It's simply what this device is capable of. Image gets crisp as you move closer to your eye, as it gets away from your eye a spherical fault of the lens gets bigger. But there are out of focus areas how close you get it to your eye. (Plus I wear glasses) I guess they ve updated the firmware. Is there a way to check by software? | ||
| Luis Zapata (Yomer) New member Username: Yomer Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2008 Rating: N/A |
Byteman, Have you talked with your relative in the US? Has he sold anything online before? We could triangulate by him making the sell, and then you send it directly to me. Where does he live? Can you tell me more about your hmd, when did you buy it. The problem you mentioned that got fixed, is it really gone? I know that as you get far from the lenses, you get the distortion around the edges. But that thing you mentioned about having one eye focused and losing it on the other shouldn't happen at all. | ||
| Nezih Kanbur (Byteman) New member Username: Byteman Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2009 Rating: N/A |
I can tell you about the exact dates if I look at the invoice, but to give a faster response to you, the oldest email from Vrealities about the unit before I have received the first unit) is on April 2008. The latest repair (cleaning and firmware update) is done April 2009. You may think why such a long time passed between repairs. Let me give you some details: It has been sent to Vrealities first for a severe focus problems. ( This was a real problem with optics -unlike the ordinary spherical faults of the lenses that I mention- and that you'll very likely find in most z800 units) They've said the unit is replaced. But for some problem at the Post office, the package was sent back to them. They've sent back one more time. As Ive received the unit, I was dissappointed again- this time with some stains (of a brush kind of thing) left on the interior of the lenses. I couldn't clean it myself - as it was on the inside. So I wanted to send it once again. During packaging a bad thing happened and some plastic parts (around screws) got some tiny cracks, so this left the unit out of warranty. As warranty is lost, Vrealities could no longer help so they lead me to the Manufacturer. (Those stains were at some part of the unit (inside the lens) where it was impossible for me to reach, but they didn't want to believe it was their fault.) The manufacturer, 3dvisor, helped a lot. They ve cleaned the optics, upgraded the firmware (so as they've said) and replaced the cracked casing with a dark gray titanum color skin. The unit seems in good shape now, but honestly it doesn't have robust casing as mentioned in the reviews. There are very thin plactic parts on the black coloured casing which are also very delicate and prone to cracks. Anyway if there is a way to sell, you'll probably see the unit before paying anything. I honestly do not want to sell anyone anything that will cause troubles to him. About my relatives in the US, I haven't talked with him about the subject. He lives in Los Angeles. By the way I don't want to sell the unit right now - at least before I can get it running on my Geforce 8 graphics card. The current focus problems might not be real problems at all. Because the manufacturer would see that and repair it as well. I wear glasses normally and z800 doesn't have pupil adjustment. If I put on the my normal glasses before z800 then the distance btw. my eye and the unit increases and image shape naturally becomes distorted. (very little) That's something you'll see on any z800 I believe. I personally didn't find the unit robust enough. It's not so comfortable with text. If I think of selling this unit, my relative will probably do it for me on Ebay or somesite like that. | ||
| Luis Zapata (Yomer) New member Username: Yomer Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2008 Rating: N/A |
I see. Well, I have a relative in the Las Vegas area too. If you ever decide to sell it. Maybe we can set them up so my cousin can look at them. | ||
| Nezih Kanbur (Byteman) New member Username: Byteman Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2009 Rating: N/A |
Sure. I 'll be in touch with you here. By the way I couldn't yet use it with a 8x Nvidia card. I also couldn't get the Iz3D driver working. Obtaining useful information from the internet is sometimes very hard. Do you know where I can find step by step information for running the z800 on a 8x and above graphics card? As far as I see from the anaglyph option, the new nvidia drivers seem to be improved a lot. I wish we could use the z800 with the new 3D Vision drivers. | ||
| Luis Zapata (Yomer) New member Username: Yomer Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2008 Rating: N/A |
As far as I know, you can't use a 8x and above video card with the new nvidia vision drivers. They only output in pageflipping and to zalman monitors. Youur only hope would be to wait for some progress on iz3d drivers in the future. Altough there is a combination to use the old nvidia drivers and a registry hack to allow 3d on a geforce 8x card, but nothing above that. nVIDIA stereo drivers (163.75 + 162.50) + geforce 8 series card Registry hack (I think it's this one) [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\NvCplApi\Policies] "ContextUIPolicy"=dword:00000001 | ||
| Nezih Kanbur (Byteman) New member Username: Byteman Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2009 Rating: N/A |
I've had problems figuring out which driver set I should use. I've heard about 162.50 on several web sites but together with some quadro driver which didn't ever work with any of my graphics cards, so your message has become an ultimate starting point. I wonder if anyone has ever had a chance to work the z800 on Windows Vista 64 bit, too? | ||
| Luis Zapata (Yomer) New member Username: Yomer Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2008 Rating: N/A |
Nvidia has no support for the z800 and vista. Your only chance is iz3d, but you'll have to wait for further driver development. For better support for the z800 and you need a firmware upgrade for your HMD so it becomes compatible with other graphic cards and drivers. | ||
| Tobias Claren (Tobias_claren) New member Username: Tobias_claren Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2009 Rating: N/A |
Hello. Short question: What is the best actual driver (drivers?) for a GeForce 6200 Go (NV44M)? OS: xp an Vista/Seven Thanks... (Message edited by Tobias Claren on August 30, 2009) | ||
| Nezih Kanbur (Byteman) New member Username: Byteman Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2009 Rating: N/A |
Hey Yomer, I've switched to Windows 7 at home and connected my 3D Visor to my computer once again to see if it may run miraculously on Windows 7:D I do believe in miracles, but this matter requires something more than a miracle. :D After that I connected it to my old PC, to see for one last time if I can make use of the glasses. 91.31 limitation limited almost everything for me. GT 6600 is so slow for my needs, and a faster graphics card doesn't recognize 91.31. Finally I sold this PC of mine which was my only option to operate the 3D Visor. I'm also selling the Visor If you still have a customer for my unit, please contact me from my e-mail address (nezihk@hotmail.com) }and let^s talk about the details. It may still take sometime though. |
