| Author | Message | ||
     Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) New member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: |
I just got wind of a new HMD from Icuiti coming out in March 2007. It supports stereo 3d like the AV920, but it also has an integrated 3DOF headtracker, mic and headphones. It also features an immersion shield to block out light. The design is also pretty slick. Heres the official page: https://www.icuiti.com/VR920.html Heres a really nice photo of it: http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/29/icuitis-latest-the-vr920-headset/ Here is an interview with Adam Travers of Icuiti from the CES: http://www.neektalk.com/blogs/neektalk/podcasts/AdamTravers.mp3 It appears the headset will be released in March for around $400-$500 which is a great price. The native resolution is only 640x480, but supports up to 1024x768 VGA input. For the price, thats not all too bad. And this will keep me occupied until the TDVisor hits the consumer market. | ||
| Andrew L. Ayers (Cr0sh) New member Username: Cr0sh Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
This does sound like a nice HMD - certainly not a bad price. Has a configuration similar to that of the General Reality Cybereye series HMD. It is nice to see that the size and price of similar offerings have come down. With that said, I really wish they (that is, manufacturers) would offer an affordable immersive HMD - a 32 degree FOV (and no mention of whether this is a diagonal measurement - I have seen others do this) is definitely "toilet paper tube" view. I would rather have slightly larger pixels and be immersed, instead. The price-point is there, though - thanks for posting this! | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) New member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
Yeah I totally agree about the FOV. I wouldn't even mind it if the resolution wasn't the best if it offered a good 60 degrees or more. The TDVisor is widescreen (16:9) so thats an improvement, but I'm not sure about the overall FOV. While it might not have the best specs, its definitely affordable, so that goes a long way. | ||
| Devil Master (Devil_master) New member Username: Devil_master Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
> a 32 degree FOV (and no mention of whether this is > a diagonal measurement - I have seen others do > this) I emailed Icuiti about this, and they replied that it is indeed a diagonal measurement. | ||
| Stephen (Ste1700) New member Username: Ste1700 Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
I am a newbie and I was wondering when this TDVisor will be available and if the specs of the device are out. | ||
| smolak peter (Smolipe) New member Username: Smolipe Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
I am also an newbie. I contacted icuiti for the release: Thank you for contacting Icuiti. The VR920 will be available in April for $399.95 and the AV920 will be available in May for $349.95. We will start taking preorders in the next week or so. Thanks, | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) New member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
Good info smolope. I'm going to preorder one of those babies as soon as they're available. $399 is probably the cheapest tech like this has ever got. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) New member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
UPDATE: Ok, Icuiti is now taking pre-orders with a $50 deposit. I already pre-ordered mine, I just can't wait to get one. At $399, you really can't go wrong (even if the resolution could be better). You can preorder from this page: https://www.icuiti.com/VR920_store.php Also, I will be posting a full review on my website (cybereality.com) as soon as I get a pair. Not to discourage anyone from preordering, but if you are the type of person that needs to read a review first, rest assured there will be one when the device is released. // cybereality | ||
| Devil Master (Devil_master) New member Username: Devil_master Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
I wonder if it could be hacked to get a higher FOV, like a VFX3D can... | ||
| Fred Fisher (Fred_fisher) New member Username: Fred_fisher Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Whats the fov going to be like on the TDVisor? are we ever going to get more than 32diag for a sub 1000 dollar HMD? fred freddie freddy (whatever you like) fisher, Oxford, UK | ||
| Devil Master (Devil_master) New member Username: Devil_master Post Number: 11 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
Some stores (like VRealities) are still selling the Z800 for less than $1000. The Z800 has a FOV of more than 32 degrees. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
I'm looking to buy one of these for R&D. I'd like to get a GPU that does it justice but price is an issue. Can anyone suggest the best card to use it with? | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) New member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
If you are looking for a decent video card for cheap, your best bet is going to be the GeForce 7800. They can be purchased for around $200 (if you're really pressed for cash the 7600 is only around $100). These cards give great performance for the price. ATI cards are *not* stereo compatible so make sure to stick with nvidia (I made that mistake a few years back and it cost me $400!). | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) New member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
UPDATE: I4U News has posted a video review of the VR920 from the GDC: http://www.i4u.com/article8323.html | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Any news on a firm release date? | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) New member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
They ship in mid April. I remember reading April 16th somewhere, but I can't find the link at the moment. | ||
| Anon Ymous (Desu) New member Username: Desu Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2007 Rating: N/A |
Oh Lawd, wonderful news. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Well, I've taken the plunge and pre-ordered. Fingers crossed. | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Any news on the VR920 shipping? I'm waiting for reviews before I buy. (Message edited by Znith on April 19, 2007) | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Znith I asked about larger quantities [for business reasons] before I placed my order for a single test unit and they came back on 04/04/07 with: "Thank you for contacting Icuiti. We will start shipping orders later this month, but do have a very large backorder, so we wont have stock until sometime in May." Again, that was in relation to larger quantities, but it does look like pre-orders will ship this month. Certainly I've heard nothing to the contrary [yet]. | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the reply Dominic. I wonder how many they have sold. Could be good news if these take off  | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
My arguably obsessive click habits lead me to this, with no word from anyone whomsoever else: http://www.icuiti.net/vr920.html "Bad PR department! Bad!" *hits Icuiti PR's snout with rolled up newspaper* (Message edited by dom on April 27, 2007) | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hehe well it's ok with me. I'd rather have them take the time to correct issues and have better stereo drivers from Nvidia. I'm used to game release delays so this is nothing to me. Thanks for the update link. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) New member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
Well at least they have a solid ship date now, May 13th. Works out good for me since I won't have a chance to play with them much until then anyway. Not a disappointment, I'd rather they spend the time to make the product better rather than shipping with buggy drivers or whatnot. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
"In anticipation of the anxiously awaited launch of the VR920, Icuiti would like to announce that we expect the VR920 to begin shipping the week of May 13th. We are running slightly behind our planned schedule but are very close to shipping the coolest new peripheral to enter the PC market in years." We didn't say a word about missing the schedule until we missed it, but we kept taking pre-orders for it based in the old shipping date, even when we knew we wouldn't meet it. Further, we didn't inform or alert those who had pre-ordered other than via the product information page. "By way of a more detailed update, we have been delayed a bit on our planned ship date due to 3D stereo driver issues. Icuiti wants our users to have the best experience possible and it seems that with the Vista operating system many of the graphics drivers have not yet been released. This is causing a few short-term testing issues that we at Icuiti want to make sure does not cause problems in the field." The HMDs don't work with Vista - this is Microsoft's and nVidia's fault but we can't say anything because we're scared of upsetting them. "As you may know, the VR920 is field upgradeable so we are working to deliver the best solution possible between now and when we ship. Once the VR920 is in the field, we will be issuing updates to continuously improve performance for our users." The best solution possible between now and then? Now and -when-? An 'expected' shipping date of 13th May? Is that like the shipping date of 'April'? And what's meant by the 'best'? The best solution that works? What? "What this means is that at time of first shipping, the nVidia 3D stereo drivers will only work on XP systems and with the driver sets that nVidia currently makes available. All other functions should be in great shape!" So even though they've stopped the shipping because of Vista, the VR920 still won't work properly with Vista? Wow. Just wow. They have a team of developers that didn't see this coming 3 months ago? "Software Developer Kits for tracking and native mode 3D stereo support will be available within the next couple of weeks." ...next couple of weeks. Man. Way to put times on everything. What are the SDK specs? Will the SDKs work on all OSs? Where are the docs? What about the community to support it? "We will try to update you as the final date for shipping gets closer." 'Try' to update me? How about 'provide a clear timeline for everything based on a strong development cycle'. Also, what other information would I need other than to say the product I've pre-ordered is shipping? "Icuiti is thrilled with the incredible response we have gotten to our VR920 and look forward to sharing with you this exciting new product very soon!" Very soon? I -bet- they're thrilled - people paying money in advance.... "Thanks for your patience and get ready to “step inside”." I've been given a load of low-grade marketspeek which atempts to gloss over apparent poor planning and communication skills, coupled with a distinct lack of foresite. What part of this am I supposed to be patient about again? BTW, this isn't about the money, it's just the fact they've pushed a product out there and, as far as I can make out, they haven't got a clue what's going on. If they -do- have a clue, then they were lying about the ship date. See the dichotomy? Sorry to be so negative, but I was dearly looking forward to getting this kit and then I'm fed a load of mindless marketing BS as if they expect me to lap it up. Cheers, D. -- Lots of questions, no answers. | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Dominic I'm sure a lot of people are awaiting the 920's arrival, including myself. I don't think it's mindless BS ... yet. This is only the first delay and they are giving information their customers unlike some companies. I'd rather know than not know. We all hope Vista stereo drivers will come in the near future My bet is that they hoped the stereo drivers would be released and stable by now so they could make a multi OS release. Techinical gagets and games rarely make the expected release date now-a-days. | ||
| Andrew L. Ayers (Cr0sh) New member Username: Cr0sh Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
Without actually trying this HMD, my opinion of it is nearly baseless, but I fear that this HMD will become yet another disappointment. I say "nearly baseless", because I have used a General Reality CyberEye CE-200M (http://www.genreality.com/cybereye_sheet.html). This was considered a "research/pro" grade HMD back in the mid to late 1990's (with a price to match). While the resolution of the VR920 is improved over the CE-200M (although even that is arguable, because the VR920 is 640x480, while the CE-200M is 789x230), and the FOV is "greater", these improvements aren't as overwhelming as first-glance seems to say. The CyberEye came with a stereo video option, and a 3DOF tracker was also available (separate, and extra cost, of course). I can't recall right now whether stereo audio was available (I think it was). Weight is certainly greater than the VR920, and there wasn't any built-in microphone. With all that said, though, the biggest factor in determining whether an HMD is right for your application should be both weight and FOV (along with resolution). The VR920 is very lightweight, and the resolution isn't bad. However, the FOV isn't the greatest, especially if you are planning to use this HMD for an "immersive experience" - you won't get it, not at a 32 degree diagonal FOV (remember, this means that the vertical and horizontal FOV ranges are smaller - since this measurement is across the diagonal - hypotenuse - of the "view frustum" for the eye). Full immersion *begins* at approximately 60 degrees horizontal and 45 degrees vertical (this doesn't encompass much of the peripheral vision area, which is really necessary for full immersion). Unfortunately, the tradeoff is resolution and weight (a fully immersive HMD requires larger displays and heavier optics typically). I had hoped that these issues would be solved by now, but I guess the market just isn't there yet. They do have an aggressive price point though on the VR920 - nothing else seems to come close. Just don't think that this HMD will be anything like the immersive feel of a Visette Pro (which was also a 640x480 display, but a much wider FOV - which of course caused the resolution to suffer - but in an immersive entertainment environment, this isn't a very big problem), or similar offerings (with much greater prices, too). However, if your goal is to watch some DVDs privately, play some games privately (but not be truely immersed), or you are working in a VR environment in which the small FOV more accurately simulates what your user will be experiencing real-world (think "VR endoscopic training", for example) - then this HMD will really fit the bill. | ||
| no (Cmos) New member Username: Cmos Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
I asked whether or not they intended to support unix/linux environments and the reply was no; there is no current demand or interest I too am quite disappointed with their pr mistake here. Also note that they had initially stated that it was going to be released in March (though to be fair that was a while ago). If they continue to push out I fully intend to drop them and get my money back (which I assume many will) | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) New member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 19 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
I have pre-ordered the device, but I am in no way upset that the date slipped a measly 2 weeks. Icuiti had said sometime in April and posted the delay in April, I think thats reasonable. They showed the device at the GDC, its obviously not vaporware. Its going to ship sometime or another, just be patient. Its not like the company is trying to piss off their customers. Its more likely some sub-contracted part in the assembly was delayed or another factor out of Icuiti's control. Give them the benefit of the doubt. If the date slips again, that may be cause for concern. But in reality, May 13th was the only solid date they have ever given. I have a feeling thats the real date. // cybereality | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Cmos I'm not sure about stereo drivers specifically [in fact, I know next to nothing about visual stereo technology] but I know a thing or two about *nix and nVidia drivers are available for most modern kernels [based on experience]. Might be worth directing *nix questions at nVidia and/or x.org, OpenGL and your flavour's forums? Just thought I'd mention it. Cheers, D. | ||
| Andrew Jakobs (Superdre) New member Username: Superdre Post Number: 4 Registered: 9-2006 Rating: N/A |
@cmos, because it doesn't support linux, that doesn't mean it will be a bad product.. Most consumers who would buy such glasses propably don't even use linux anyway.. Linux users always think that everybody is using linux, while linux isn't used a lot/if at all by regular consumers... | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@cmos, et al: As much as I support the idea of open-source software and linux, you can't hold it against Icuiti for not supporting linux. Icuiti is a business and they are trying to make money. They have PC support and claim Mac support will come in a few months. That is good enough for me. Honestly, there just isn't a real market for making money off of linux. Windows still holds a good 90% market share, so any competent company will support windows (at least if they want to make any money). Remember these are gamer glasses. What was the last big-name PC game that actually came out for linux (and not like 3 years later)? Seriously. Thats just the bottom-line. Anyway, linux users are supposed to be 1337 and all, why don't you and your linux buddies write a driver yourself? Shouldn't be too hard for an "advanced" linux user, no? Or you could simply run a dual-boot system with linux and XP. I don't see what the big deal is. Its like a vegetarian buying a big-mac from mcdonalds and complaining that there's meat in it. Everyone knows that the latest games and peripherals *always* come out on PC first if they even ship on other platforms at all. | ||
| no (Cmos) New member Username: Cmos Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Reading my reply from earlier I see how it could have possibly been misinterpreted. I didnt mean the "pr mistake" was with their lack of support for *nix but the date slippage. Though, I still dont understand the hostility directed towards me or (seemingly) linux and/or other *nix environments. I asked a question and decided to post their response here for anyone else who may have been curious. I myself am unsurprised that they decided against it; I didn't expect it but I was curious enough to ask. I have no issues with video output (Xorg + NVidia) - I'm specifically interested in the sdk behind the product as I wish to do some custom development utilizing it. There will be slight overlap with the stereo stuff but at the moment I'm not too concerned with that. Secondly, though I am not sure if it was serious or intended to be derogatory, I fully intend to make a driver + c interface for at least the rotational data under linux. I'm just hoping that they have not made the job abnormally difficult by arbitrarily locking it down. Anyway, for anyone interested the SDK will apparently be available when the product ships (ie we will not have to wait longer for access to it) and they have told me that they are still on for this week. So here's hoping. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Cmos, ok, now I see what you were saying. When I read it, to me it sounded like the "PR Mistake" was saying they weren't supporting linux. After reading it again I can see what you meant. Anyway, no hard feelings. I was serious about the driver comment, although I was being a little sarcastic. For some reason I got the impression you were one on the *nix heads that complain all the time about games not being ported to *nix. Obviously I read more into it then was there. My bad. Also, Icuiti's PR department is going to have to get working pretty soon. Its already May 18th and they said the week of May 13th, which ends on Saturday. I guess we'll see if they actually ship any time soon. | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
New user and pre ordered vr920, waiting for. @Cmos i'm an ubuntu user and i hope they will work on nux, nvidia as already a good driver i think it will be easy to make stereo for them. @Andres, "Honestly, there just isn't a real market for making money off of linux. Windows still holds a good 90% market share" Make me laught a little bit, i buy a lot of software and game for linux, they're is a market but devellopers don't see that, i travelled a lot in Asia and what i saw is 90 % of nux computers, may be M$ have european and usa market but not all the planet, what you see on surveys or statistics websites are all on windows users website, look at freshmeat,gnomefiles etc statistcics and you will see a large nux users, so, statistics are false, i'm not a pro linux user cause i love all os (except Vista) xp, osx, pegasos, nix etc...  PS : on microsoft.com i think you'll see 99% windows user on their website stats, i hope for them  | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 24 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Kapi: Yes, I have been to freshmeat before. They do have a lot of software and, if I remember correctly, it was all free. I wasn't saying that there weren't a large number of *nix users, as that numbers have been growing. I am talking about from a business standpoint. There might be some money in server-side applications development but as far as games go, PC is where the money is. I hear the Mac is making some progress (and there is an arguement that OSX is *nix based), but PC still holds a good majority. Although its probably not 90% anymore. Anyhow, I'm not trying to turn this into a pc/mac/nix thread, so lets just leave it at that. And, for what its worth, I would like to switch to linux but the lack of support for games and peripherals such as the VR920 are the exact reason I stick with windows. | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Just saying about stats on websites for freshmeat exemple, but what i saw for stereo 3d on nux is quadro can do what windows driver can do, so i think nvidia will include stereo 3D in their drivers in the future, it's like to have an Ati video card and icuiti glasses or other with these cards, there is no drivers for stereo 3D developped by A(MD)TI, so 3d glasses like vr920 restricted to Nvidia for now, that's why i won't buy an Ati card, stereo 3D in games is the future (i had revelators glasses and it was amazing) so now waiting for .... hum ... icuiti.  | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Kapi, I've got a pair of revelators as well. They don't work with my new LCD monitor, so thats why I'm going with the VR920. I also plan on getting a DLP projector at some point, the prices are pretty low now. The headtracking on the VR920s are what really sold me on them. I saw the video from the GDC and the tracking on Quake Arena looked spot on. I'm really hoping that the SDK is easy to integrate, so I can use it with my 3d engine. Man, I've been waiting to get an HMD for so long. I'm really hope it ships soon. | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 5 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Well has anyone gotten a shipping notice on the 920? Today is doomsday for their 'week of May 13th'. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Znith I sent an email to them @14.46GMT today asking them to provide a firm ship date or provide more information about why shipping has been stalled and perhaps offer options for those who aren't tied to Vista. I'll pass the info on once I hear back. Cheers, Dom. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Update: I've heard nothing. Will chase tonight. | ||
| no (Cmos) New member Username: Cmos Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
I was able to speak with someone (at length through email) last week. He promptly (surprisingly quickly) responded to all of my questions about the SDK. Yesterday I asked him why there was a further delay. He responded in detail: --- I apologize for the fact that the SDK has not yet been released. It seems that I misunderstood some information that was given to me. The SDK is completed, but our legal department is requiring it to go through a couple scrubs to create an End User’s License Agreement. This, and a lack of infrastructure on our website to deliver the SDK has caused it to not be available to the public at the time I had thought it would be. On a separate note, we have figured out a way to add stereoscopic 3D development options without depending on nVidia stereo drivers. This has been incorporated into the SDK, and this has complicated the issue, causing another delay. But, the end result is a richer, more functional SDK. At its release, it will be freely downloadable. I just got all the people involved in the creation and dissemination of the SDK into a meeting to try and lock down a date. The information I was just given is that it will be fully available in two weeks. At that time, it will be announced on the website. Thank you for your patience in this matter, and I hope I was able to clarify the reasons for your wait. Todd R. Ferguson Technical Support Representative Icuiti Corporation 75 Town Centre Dr Suite H Rochester, NY 14623 585.359.5909 todd_ferguson@icuiti.com --- I then clarified my question (to match my original intent) asking: What about the actual headset shipping, is that another two weeks out as well? I have not received an answer. (All the other ones were answered quickly) This is ridiculous. I’m tired of wasting my time on this. You would think that at the very least they would attempt to update their customers - instead of exhibiting this shady pr mess. I’m going to go through the process of retracting my pre-order tonight. | ||
| no (Cmos) New member Username: Cmos Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
scratch that idea, i forgot they were on the east coast (they're currently closed) tomorrow morning instead | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi; i have been following this forum for a time right now, and i felt the need to register for something about this post. That is: from the begining of this post to the end i was very intrigued about the fact that when the Z800 still had a reasonable price, much people were disappointed by the 800*600 resolution, even for the little 40º(diagonal) field of view. And now, from night to day (in a moment), every one of you, are cheerfull about buying this 640*480 maximum (displaying) resolution and much less FOV (if i remember well 30 or 35º) visor. Doesn´t anyone thinks that 640*480 is just an obsolete (i could also say ridiculous) resolution for playing pc games and that 35º (least go the same for the 40 or 45º ,i dont remember, FOV of the z800) is just smaller than a 17 or 19' tft or crt display? I feel like i am losing something about this new display that you seem to know for having so much interest in it, I will be gratefull if anyone can explain what is the so good thing about it that it is worth the money for it. Or it is just the price what appeals to you? in that case, can you explain to me what good can be in it with the specifications it have? I´m also a hardcore vr fan, but this doesn´t make any sense to me. Thank you very very much. | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Decoril, I think it's more the possibility of entering the VR realm (I use that term loosly) with an affordable price of $399. I don't think anyone thinks the VR920 is going to be perfect VR. I've experienced VR in various public places and am fully aware of it's hardware limitations. HMD's with larger FOV's cost thousands as you probably already know. The mass public aren't willing to pay thousands, but they might pay $399 for an introduction to VR (at least that's how I see it). I would buy a Z800 (at the $500 price point) however it does not support Vista and they have no plans to make compatible drivers for Vista. I'm sorta glad I didn't jump on the lower price now as I'd be quite upset with eMarigin's terrible support and forum closure. | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Ok, i understand, then will anyone of you post here when you receive your vr920 what is like, i mean real size of the displayed image comparing it to be seated in front (i mean only the image size, with not taking in account the tracking) a normal monitor? exactly what kind of monitor it looks like (14' 17' 19' etc) at a normal distance? Cheers | ||
| Andrew L. Ayers (Cr0sh) New member Username: Cr0sh Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
What I don't understand is the need for drivers, period. From what I can gather, the only reason drivers are needed are for enabling stereo display - that is, a driver is needed to tell the HMD which image (frame/field/etc) routes to the left-eye, and which image routes to the right-eye. But, why should a driver be needed at all? After all, LCD/DLP projectors don't need drivers, do they (not in my experience, though I bet there has been at least one manufacturer of "Windows-only" projectors)? Just make the interface box (the thing sitting in-between the HMD and the video source) capable of taking two video inputs (I would personally like to see both SVGA-analog and RCA-composite - higher density connectors like DVI and HDMI aren't needed, as the LCDs used in such low-cost HMDs have never gone beyond 800x600), and switching between mono and stereo modes based on signals present (if an input is on only one of the inputs, route to both eyes - if on both, route to relevant eye), or a "manual" switch (either a soft-switch set in a setting config on-board, or an actual switch). Alternatively, I could also see having a single SVGA connector input, capable of accepting a 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 video signal, and "splitting" the image down the middle, with each half driving one LCD (either a 640x480 or 800x600 LCD, respectively). Either make it smart to realize when only half the image is present and present the half remaining to both displays, or add a "manual" switch, or if presented with a lower-res image, use that. Neither of these solutions require special drivers, and would allow the HMD to work with a variety of systems, provided those systems could supply the necessary standard video signals. Current non-stereo capable games would work, and new ones would be very easy to create (in both DirectX and OpenGL, you would just need to render a second camera view over to the other half of the display, or on a separate card, or the other output of a dual-head card). Again, such a system would be system and display agnostic. Ultimately, though, stereo display is simply the least needed component for an immersive VR experience. Plenty of research was done on this in the past during VR's heyday (mid-1980's to late-1990's), and every study I read during that time said that a stereoscopic display was not as important for depth-cueing in a virtual environment as was higher-resolution and color imagery, proper shadow rendering, proper scene rendering, larger FOVs, etc. In other words, everything about HMDs that still hasn't been solved for a reasonable (read: consumer) price-point. For consumers interested in VR, their interest will most likely be for entertainment purposes. Therefore, an HMD that will sell would have at least 800x600x16bit resolution per eye, and a lens system capable of delivering at least a 55 degree horizontal and 40 degree vertical FOV. This isn't true immersion, but is very close - close enough to make VR entertainment compelling. Add in a low-cost 3DOF head tracker (USB capable, using the standard HID interfacing system - no proprietary drivers here, either!), and some good-quality headphones or earbuds, and you would have a winner. Such an HMD shouldn't cost more than $500.00, and without needing stereo-support (though this could be added as an upgrade option - swap out the interface box), it would be compatible with just about any system. Whether such a device will ever become a reality is anybody's guess. I personally wish I had an angel investor willing to give me a shot at creating such an HMD. The majority of it can be done off-the-shelf. In fact, most of the real cost is getting a sleek and light-weight form-factor device casing designed and manufactured - the guts are the inexpensive portion. | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
You are absolutely correct; that is exactly what i think about the topic, but i will add a fact or two to it. The fact is, that the designing and manufacturing enterprises (same goes to developers of professional software, and everyone that aims to sell to the proffesional market) multiply, even sometimes for a factor of 10x or more their product prices in knowing that the professional market not only will but even sometimes needs to pay exagerated prices for "proffesional products". Then, to enter the consumer market, they design with really crappy if they can, or just the same components, a product that can be much near the proffesional aimed products, for the fact that proffesionals will become reluctant to pay so much overinflated prices for their products when there can be the same characteristics or even better products in the consumer market for, and this word is the key: sincere prices. That, until it will be pushing the market to a new dimension, isn´t desirable for the old guard or the old skool of manufacturers, for that will be popping their so lucrative market bubble (sustained for many years to the date). The fact is, there needs to be a YOUNG and SINCERE new BRAVE actor in this nearest mafious market (oh,dont blame them... it´s just the actual proffesional market culture that they follow whithout very much preocupation; its the old skool way) that doesn´t worry about the proffesional market bubble,, that i too predict He being (if he can survive the cons and then tentations that the old guard will be putting in his way) greatly successfull and speed light growing tho the top one. You pople can belive this or not, for me, its just a personally verified and greatly sadding but also hope giving fact, for that it doesnt take so much for someone with the will, and the ethic "cleanity" (sorry for this word, heh) to become this ONE Best regards and good luck for all ;)!!! (Message edited by decoril on May 23, 2007) | ||
| Neil Schneider (Chopper) New member Username: Chopper Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2007  Rating: N/A |
I'm afraid you have under estimated the importance of an S-3D video driver. It's not a simple matter of making an image for your left eye and an image for your right. If you look at a stereo screen with your naked eye, you will see that everything is proportional. For example, the objects in the distance are wide apart, the middle section is close together, and the up-front items are separated again for pop-out effect. While a game is rendered in 3D, the driver needs to translate this 3D data into S-3D data - and that's more complicated than many suggest. By the way, some exciting stuff is coming down the wire. You should check out the screen shots in the NEWS section at mtbs3D.com. Regards, Neil | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Of course, a 3d driver taking in account the lack of interest in S-3D in the videogame industry is totally necessary, it would not, if there were a videogame standard for S-3D gaming, it being a game programmed taking in account S-3D, with an option to activate real ingame two cameras with all the related controls and to render for example all the even frames with the left and the odd frames with the right, also easily being capable of dynamic convergence with a raytraced (for example) convergence plane in the engine, all this is actually a few hours of programming for having it in any engine; then you will have all the post proccessing and shading you want, completely S3D compatible like i said in one day of work for the engine team. I know your MTBS3D initiative and think it is a great initiative, but when you feel capable, you must begin to work for an standard like this contrarily (<-is this word correct? huh) to what you seem to be doing now for explaining to the developers how to make their engines compatible with the infinitely crappy nvidia drivers, what may be important at the moment for getting S-3D at least noticed to the gamer mass. Also if you take in account the actual situation Andrew is correct about not needing drivers for S-3D cause he relies that to nvidia. But Andrew, even if you relie in the standard HID system,(now i am talking about tracking) you need to write a little "driver" for it to work, not taking in account that if you intend to use Real USB protocole in your device (not serial interface with, and here it is, USB emulation) you are being immersed in a real though driver programming proyect that very few people have the know how neccesary to being succesfull. I like this conversation a lot, may be, why we are going too far from the post theme we may open a new thread to continue talking about this¿ PD. hi, chopper, i readed a lot from you in the (what happened to it? does it have been closed finally? there were a lot of spam and that, it says Forbidden) stereovision.net forum and will be interesting to talk with you about all this mess. PPD. Andrew, what about the optics? have you researched about that? i have, and for a private initiative this may will be one of the hardest parts to achieve or may be not,, if you make contact with a skillfull optics designer that doesnt cost you really a lot, and can get to make good quality plastic optics. Actually i am in a very ambitious proyect involving the conveniency of an immersive FOV visor that needs to be well attached to the user and lightweight. Have you went serious about at least designing a product like the one you talk about? if yes, we may need to talk ( but dont hope for having finded the investors you need, but we may unite some efforts to have our proyects going ahead. Best regards ;) (Message edited by decoril on May 23, 2007) | ||
| Neil Schneider (Chopper) New member Username: Chopper Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi Decoril, Baby steps! Once the game developers acknowledge the importance and benefits of S-3D, it will be much easier to get them to follow a more entrenched solution. It will be much easier to get them from 0 to 80, than 80 to 100! That is why our advocacy program is so important. It's the customers who decide what game developers do, not the S-3D solution providers and driver developers. Please take advantage of it!  I don't know what happened to http://forums.stereovision.net. I liked that forum. I know we fought very hard with the spam problem ourselves, and I think our solution has worked very well. Regards, Neil | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
One of the main problems (from what I've read) with the Z800 and Vista is that the tracker doesn't function and the unit seems to shut down because of this. I've read there is a work around that allows 120 minutes of play when disabling the tracker, I don't know how it's done tho. Not only that but Vista and stereo 3D is nearly non functional right now. There have been a couple games that did have some limited function in Vista as posted on the Meant to be Seen boards. | ||
| Andrew L. Ayers (Cr0sh) New member Username: Cr0sh Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
decoril, all: Yes, optics are more difficult than I let on - but what I was meaning by "off the shelf", I was meaning that you could get the pieces for the optic system from many places - you don't have to have them custom made, unless your ultimate goal was near-zero distortion and perfect color reproduction. In other words, LEEP vs. regular-ole magnification. You are not going to get LEEP quality in a consumer HMD any time soon. With that said, even convention optics can be a bear, but it has been done - the Victormaxx Cybermaxx (not the cheapo Stuntmaster) HMD (mid-1990's) comes to mind. Wide FOV, and decent resolution - but the price was much higher (around $6-700.00, IIRC). If it was resurrected, and fitted with better LCD displays, it would be everything I suggested before (though larger and heavier, unfortunately - a re-design would be needed to bring that under control). Personally, I think what Victormaxx did with the Stuntmaster was closer to what is needed - just some cheap fresnel lenses. Something like that, with maybe some cheap plastic prisms to allow the divergence of the light path (thus allowing the LCDs to be placed further apart, which would be needed as you make the design smaller and lighter) - or a folded light path design (like the old W Industries Visette on the 1000CS units used) - might work best for a low-cost design. I wasn't too serious on the "wanting an angel investor" thing - I don't have the time or resources to expend on pursuing that path (not to mention the fact that I need to build an HMD like I need a hole in my head - I already own several old - but working - HMDs). Maybe if I get some of my other projects out of the way, I could pursue this avenue further. Also - what I was meaning about the cheap 3DOF tracker vis-a-vis USB - I just want something I can plug into any PC, and use it without needing to expend a serious amount of effort getting it to work. That is, give me something I can plug into a USB port on my *nix box, and read the data streaming from it via a USB serial port device (HID or otherwise). Worse case, give me the information I (or someone else) would need to code the driver. There is no need for it to be "Windows-only" if designed properly up front. It used to be, back in the day, that this kind of thing was simple - plug your HMD into the VGA or RCA-composite plugs/ports, plug the tracker into the serial port. Set your COM1/ttyS1/etc to 9600-8N1 and just read the data. There is no reason at all for any of this to be any more complex - except for the case of vendor lock-in to proprietary systems, which does nothing to advance the technology as a whole. | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Once again you are correct. Glad to talk with you ;) | ||
| no (Cmos) New member Username: Cmos Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the write up Cr0sh, I totally agree. Mr Ferguson got back to me today and for anyone interested here is what was said: --- I am sorry that it took me this long to reply to your email. I didn’t want to give you one answer, and then immediately recant on it. Although we stated that we would be shipping the VR920 starting the week of May 13th, we will be unable to meet that deadline. As we prepared the VR920 for shipping, we were performing product testing. During this, we ran into several software bugs. These bugs negatively affected the quality of the product. While we understand that these delays are frustrating, we feel that receiving a product with these issues would be even more frustrating. We feel very strongly here at Icuiti that customer satisfaction is the most important thing that we produce. Each time we have given a date, we have sincerely worked toward meeting that goal. However, when faced with a decision to meet a deadline or delay so that we can ship a product that meets our standards, we have chosen the delay. At this time, we will not be issuing an exact date for shipping. We can say that we have at least two weeks of work left to iron out all of the bugs and ship you a unit that will perform the way you expect. We sincerely thank you for the patience that you have shown during this time, and are as excited as you are for the release of the VR920. Thank you, Todd R. Ferguson Technical Support Representative Icuiti Corporation 75 Town Centre Dr Suite H Rochester, NY 14623 585.359.5909 todd_ferguson@icuiti.com --- Note: I have backed out of the pre-order, and they made it very easy to do - I simply called their main line and told them I wanted to. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@decoril: I for one am very excited about the VR920. First thing, I don't own an HMD currently. If I had the z800s or any professional model, I'd probably be a lot less interested. But the point is that the VR920 is the first somewhat affordable VR capable headset to hit the consumer market in a while. Forget about the resolution for a moment. Just the head tracker alone is probably worth $400 (even a ghetto solution like the IRtracker runs like $200). You have to look at the whole package. People keep saying: "we had 640x480 hmds in the 90's" but you forget those were bulky 15lb contraptions that probably cost thousands of dollars or more. The VR920 is only 4oz, not much bigger than a pair of shades and costs around the price of a game console. It also runs on USB power so it's lightweight and portable (perfect for AR applications). I am mostly interested in the headset for AR experiments, in which case the FOV isn't as important because its ok if you see some RL and I probably couldn't process a video feed higher than 640x480 in real-time anyway. Plus if I want to take it apart to install cameras or modify it in anyway, I can live with buying a second testing unit at $400 a pop. Also, Icuiti seems to be more receptive to the gaming community than eMagin ever was. Emagin released drivers for what? like 2 games? Icuiti already has patches for like 10 games and is pushing to the mainstream crowd (WoW, HL2, Second Life, etc.). They have a much better shot and making a dent than eMagin or predecessors had regardless of specs. To prove my point, look how good the Nintendo Wii is selling, and the specs suck. But people like the innovation, so it sells. Now with the popularity of the Wii, I think the public will be more receptive to alternate HIDs such as a head-tracking 3d headset. Beyond that, you have to think Icuiti will produce a better model if the VR920 sells well. So by purchasing a VR920, you are also supporting Icuiti and their R&D dept. to produce a more advanced model. I admit the specs could be better, but they are trying to hit critical mass. If they could get the price to $99, you know it would sell like hot-cakes, regardless of the resolution. So yes, the price is a huge factor and always has been. Ok, I've said enough. // cybereality | ||
| Andrew L. Ayers (Cr0sh) New member Username: Cr0sh Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
Andres: I just want to clarify some things - yes, in the mid-1990's we did have "consumer gaming" HMDs that allowed for 640x480 (per eye) resolution, though most maxed out at 320x200 per eye. The two HMDs of the period I remember best were the Forte VFX-1 and the Victormaxx Cybermaxx. The VFX-1 had a lower resolution, but could accept a 640x480 signal (I think it downconverted it to 320x240 per eye). It was stereoscopic (if sent the right signal), and had a nice flip-up visor (great for development work), plus very nice over-the-ear headphones, and a built-in 3DOF head tracker. Not the greatest FOV, about the same as the VR920. I remember it selling for around $500.00. Forte later (late 1990s?) came out with the VFX3D, which was true 640x480 per eye (IIRC), specs were the same otherwise. The Victormaxx Cybermaxx HMD was a 640x480 per-eye stereoscopic HMD, with a built in 3DOF tracker (IIRC, it plugged into the serial port), IPD adjustment, and a fairly wide FOV (approx 55 degrees horizontal), which really immersed the user. The headphones weren't the greatest, and there wasn't any way to flip up the visor. It sold for around $800.00. Both weighed way more than VR920, but not "15 pounds" (you are probably thinking about the original W Industries Visette that came with the CS1000 pod - it had a mad-wide FOV - 65 degrees or so - but a low 320x200 resolution per eye - which was supplied by small tube CRTs with an optically folded light path - it weighed a ton). Neither of these HMDs cost "thousands of dollars" either. Yes, there were (and still are) many HMDs out there that did cost thousands, but for the consumer in the 1990's, there were a few HMD offerings under $1000.00, most hovering around the $500.00, which seems to be a sweet spot. Icuity has come under this amount, with a lightweight HMD that has OK specs. As I have noted before, how you perceive its worth will be all due to how you use it. Viewing a movie in private, AR, or VR applications which utilize its limitations for better simulation (ie, simulations of lapro/endoscopic surgery, for instance), will likely fair well. 3DFPS-type games may not come off as well. Don't get me wrong, they will probably look good, and the addition of tracking to the mix coupled with the light-weight of the HMD may help to "pull" the user in. I remember playing Duke Nukem 3D on a PC using the VFX-1 and a Forte CyberPuck (wireless 2DOF tilt-sensor joystick in a puck-like form factor - actually not a bad navigation tool) - and despite the limitations of the HMD, I still had a lot of fun playing the game, and that drew me into it better, and made the FOV feel "larger" than it actually was (the brain is funny that way - it does a lot of compensation). Overall, I agree that Icuiti is releasing a good product - but they better release it soon - nobody likes "vaporware", especially after putting deposits down on it. Even so, it can't be easy to work in this market. It isn't easy to get the word out to those who might like it most (Icuiti should team up with Blizzard and make a branded package for WoW). I hope they do well with it, and I hope it takes off... | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Cr0sh, I agree with what you said, I was simply exaggerating to make a point. When I said "15 pounds" I was indeed referring to the original Virtuality Visette, as that was the first HMD I got to try out (and what sparked my interest in VR in the first place). While there were some consumer models available, notably the VFX1, the entire market was completely different. Most importantly, there really were no true 3d games or engines to take advantage of the hardware at the time. Cybermaxx and other companies were just ahead of their time. There was descent and then there was quake. All the other games either used raycasting (ala doom) with 2d character sprites, or pre-rendered backgrounds and other hacks. Its not like today where every game is 3d and works out-of-box via the nvdida stereo drivers. So, lets just say the VR920 are comparable with the VFX3D. Even if we assume that, the experience of toying with Quake1 on a voodoo card with the VFX3D is going to be very different from playing Quake4 on a sli-7800 with the VR920. It was never the hardware that was lacking, it has always been the software. In terms of development, a lot has changed as well. There are tons of 3d engines that can be licensed for cheap and/or free open-source solutions (ARToolkit, etc.). Most games are easily modded (ie HL2, gary's mod) so you can experiment even if you don't know any programming. Many things have progressed to make VR development much easier and higher quality (like Quest3D VR). That being said, I am still waiting for a high-FOV headset to come out. In no way am I saying I'm content with the VR920 specs. However for the size and weight, the specs are respectable. I am more excited that a company is out there trying to sell major game developers on stereo 3d. For me, it is worth it to support any company that will further the industry, and Icuiti are positioning themselves to be an industry leader. If the VR920s sell well, I am certain Icuiti will come through with a more advanced unit in the coming years. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
I'd like to add that Icuiti hasn't replied to my email in any way, shape or form. I don't want to kick these people in the nuts, but I have to say that I find their externally facing operations very, very poor - particularly website infrastructure and generally customer communications. There appear to be various factors which lack forward planning and the 'launch' of the VR920 product seems to mirror said lack. I'm very dissapointed so far but I will stick to the pre-order because I still have hope in the end product. I will approach the VR920 with a very critical eye - more so because of recent events. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
If I didn't know any better, I'd say I killed the conversation. Any news, anyone? PS. Linux rocks and Windows sucks big baboon bottoms. Mac is BSD, which is Unix. Linux isn't Unix but it's suspiciously similar, apparently [see SCO]. If you can plug it into the machine and see its raw I/O, you can make it work. /'just my take' blog | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Naah Dominic you didn't kill the convo. If you looked at Icuiti's website it seems to have been updated last night. No real ship date info or sdk yet. I can't decide if I'm disappointed with the delay or understanding that they want to release a properly working product. I guess I'll wait for reviews I'm just hangin at the Wootoff... | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 28 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
Don't worry Don, its not you that killed the thread. Its the fact that Icuiti has delayed the shipping again and there is no real news otherwise. Like everyone else, we must continue to wait. It appears that the bugs are software related, so I don't think it could take much longer at this point. Hopefully Icuiti will sort out these issues before the end of the month. Although they don't really have any competition (at that price range) so its not like customers have much of a choice. They'd better throw in an immersion shield or something for free, seeing how we all paid to pre-order and now must wait like little kids for christmas. (Message edited by cybereality on June 02, 2007) | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
This is pretty frustrating. I'm seriously considering just backing out at this point. There are other things I can do with $400. Their lack of willingness to deal with Linux combined with this delay have me on the line between canceling and not. If one more thing goes wrong, that'll probably be it. :/ Anyone know if they'd be willing to release hardware specs so someone else can write a Linux driver? (WITHOUT having to reverse engineer anything?) I already emailed them with this question but I haven't had a response yet. | ||
| Charles Arrants (Charles) Member Username: Charles Post Number: 47 Registered: 5-2006 Rating: N/A |
Apparently Icuiti isn't the only company having problems meeting its projected timelines for its 3-D HMDs. TDVision's much-hyped high-resolution TDVisor HMD was projected for a May release but is nowhere in sight, and the TDVision website hasn't been updated in months. All this is disappointing, but somehow not surprising, considering the track record of various "state of the art" 3-D HMDs. (Remember the z800 3D Visor?) | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Checking the Icuiti website just now... looks like the VR920 'might be' OFF preorder status and ready to be purchased for the full price. At least it looks that way on the front page, the products page however still says preorders available. These people need a proper webmaster 'cough cough' So maybe it's just a matter of days before the preorders are delivered into your hot lil hands (Message edited by Znith on June 05, 2007) | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
I just checked my bank account online right now and there's a $350 difference between the "Ledger Balance" and "Available Balance". They said they'd charge the last $350 when the thing finally ships, so hopefully this means it's happening. Can't wait! :D | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
I can confirm that Icuiti has charged about $350 on my credit card for the final payment on the preorder. I assume that means they shipped. Review and full unboxing photos forthcoming. // cybereality | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Problem for me cause i've now a 8800 gts on core 2 duo, so stereo doesn't work as i saw on forums on core2 duo (need to use 1 cpu) and 8800 doesn't have drivers, mtbs beta drivers don't even works on my config... so waiting for nvidia. No luck, need to buy a new "old" PC to use the new icuiti product, but i'm lucky i've not Vista !! :p (Message edited by kapi on June 06, 2007) | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
I believe there is a program that will allow you to disable some of the cores on a duo or quad core processor. I know they've used it for benchmarking, but I only have a P4 so I don't know the specifics. Even so, nvidia still needs to release updated stereo drivers. This is getting ridiculous. It seems like stereo3d is getting less support on the PC (possibly due to the fact that the old school gamer glasses won't work on everyones new LCD monitors). If anything, nvidia should be busting their balls to make the 8800 *4D* compatible, because 3D was so like 10 years ago. | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Yes there's something like that to remove one core, but i've buyed dual core not for use only one :p , Nvidia has problem even with 8000 series and Vista, i tried vista ultimate for one week with my e6600 c2duo, 2 gig ram and 8800 gts, i could say it's really slow, very bad performances gaming, i've bf2142,quake4,hl2 and some other games, a lot of crash during gaming and some drop of 45% frame lost on some games, for using it i think it as a boring interface, you loose your time with Aero, yes it's nice but i don't need nicer Gui i need something fast, stable and secure like my ubuntu, Vista is a joke , supermarket OS. So Nvidia loose theire time on Vista drivers and we wait/pay for microsoft error to let out this pseudo os.  | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
I'm right behind you on that one, Kapi. I've been using Mandrake/Mandriva for around 9 years now - recently upgraded my main hardware with a dual core laptop and dual core PC [2 Gig RAM and 256Meg nVidia cards apiece], both of which came with Vista. I liked it at first purely for the novelty but I'm going to be dual-booting Ubuntu on both boxes soon because Vista runs like a POS. It's like buying a sports car and towing a 2 ton trailer with it. I may even upgrade them to Win2k or XP before dual booting them - I genuinely think it would be an upgrade too. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
I sent this @ 16.00 GMT today [dunno what the time diff is over there]. "I note that funds have been debited from my account for the remainder of my VR920 pre-order. Please can you confirm that the order has shipped and give a rough ETA? Your website suggests it is still delayed. Thank you." I'll let you all know when/if I get a response [I say 'if', because they ignored my last email]. | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
I sent a pretty similar email last night. Still haven't received a response. :/ | ||
| no (Cmos) New member Username: Cmos Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
I just wanted to briefly add that I have not been given my money back - and I cancelled over a month ago. They said everything was done and handled and now they are not responding to me in any way. "Thankfully" I havent had any more extracted from my account. This all seems very shady. I dont believe that this is the case, but this behavior is definitely attrocious. I personally will not do business with a company that operates this way. I'm going to give my bank a call after work today. Hopefully this process isnt too convoluted. *sigh* | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
@No You said on May 22nd you were retracting your pre-order. If that is true it has not been a month. It usually takes up to two billing cycles for any type of credit to be applied. Have you called your credit card company to inquire about the credit. It may be there but not showing on your statement yet. I'm still on the fence waiting reviews, but I'm not pleased at the way they are handling things. IF indeed the 920 has shipped they should inform the people that pre-ordered and not just charge their credit cards the remaining balance. A tracking number is helpful too, encase the package gets lost or stolen. This is all basic stuff any professional e-tailer incorporates into their business plan. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 31 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
I've been with Icuiti all the way so far, but now I am a bit worried. If they are charging people's credit cards with a substantial amount, there should be some sort of confirmation. Even an auto-generated email would be better than nothing. I expected a tracking number or at least some idea if the unit shipped or not. Maybe I'll give them a call and see what the deal is but, again, I shouldn't have to. I don't think there is any malicious intent on behalf of Icuiti, but it seems like their customer service needs some work. Even on an obscure forum as this one there are already multiple disgruntled customers. I can only imagine there are many more people left in the dark over this. I'm a game developer myself, so I fully understand why games (or game related peripherals) can and do get delayed. I will give Icuiti the benefit of the doubt on that one. But they seriously need to let people know whats going on. // cybereality | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
I have an small apology to make. After I posted yesterday I started to clear out my emails and found a response from Icuiti wriggling around in my spam filter. It was a response to my question about releasing the glasses for XP users. Verbatim: Dated 23/05/07 "Although we stated that we would be shipping the VR920 starting the week of May 13th, we will be unable to meet that deadline. As we prepared the VR920 for shipping, we were performing product testing. During this, we ran into several software bugs. These bugs negatively affected the quality of the product. While we understand that these delays are frustrating, we feel that receiving a product with these issues would be even more frustrating. We feel very strongly here at Icuiti that customer satisfaction is the most important thing that we produce. Each time we have given a date, we have sincerely worked toward meeting that goal. However, when faced with a decision to meet a deadline or delay so that we can ship a product that meets our standards, we have chosen the delay. At this time, we will not be issuing an exact date for shipping. We can say that we have at least two weeks of work left to iron out all of the bugs and ship you a unit that will perform the way you expect. We sincerely thank you for the patience that you have shown during this time, and are as excited as you are for the release of the VR920. Thank you, Todd R. Ferguson Technical Support Representative Icuiti Corporation 75 Town Centre Dr Suite H Rochester, NY 14623 585.359.5909" I know it doesn't change the current situation but I feel guilty. So, first, my apologies to Icuiti for saying they ignored my last email because they clearly didn't and apologies to you message board users for unintentionally misleading you - it wasn't my intention. Cheers, D. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Dom, To be fair, that email was sent to everyone on Icuiti's pre-order list. AFAIK that is the only email they have sent aside from the initial confirmation. I got the same exact email word for word. I had also sent them a specific question (regarding the delay) and I got the same response. So while the company is trying, they really need to work on things like this. I think they still have a good chance to make good, provided the units ship soon and they make some effort to keep their valued customers in the loop. After all this drama, I really hope the VR920s are worth the wait. | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
With my 8800 gts and red blue glasses i tried unigine demo and i saw stereo 3d without icuiti and nvidia :p http://unigine.com/download/ Enjoy ! | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 33 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
Alright guys, so I sent Icuiti an email and I received a prompt reply. I guess they are in the process of shipping the units now. Here is what the email said: "Your card was charged as a preliminary to shipping. We have begun shipping, and now it is just a matter of where you are in the queue. When your order does ship, you will receive an email with tracking information from UPS. Thank you, and we appreciate your patience in this matter" So now we just have to wait. | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
A reply! Amazing! I hope it ships soon. I'm in a bit of a nasty situation where if it doesn't ship within the next couple of days I might not get it. I sent them an email asking them to change the shipping address to where I will be moving to, but they haven't responded to that. That worries me. I'm sure I'll work something out with my college post office and see if I can get the package forwarded if it goes there, but the lack of communication is frustrating me. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
I got the same boiler plate response this evening. I find it strange that they're taking money and still not saying when my order's shipping. Surely they must know where I am in the 'queue' and therefore when it's likely to ship. This kit better be worth it. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 34 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
I went the extra mile and decided to call Icuiti directly to get a response. Although I didn't get to talk to anyone (I just left a message), I did get an informative reply from Todd Ferguson on my voice mail. Basically he said that shipments of the products will be coming to them next week and that they will be shipping out starting then. He said to expect pre-orders to ship within the next 1-3 weeks (in the order they were received). I pre-ordered mine in March (shortly after they went on sale) so I presume my order will be one of the first shipping out. Hopefully all these delays are just the result of some launch hiccups and not a consistent issue after they start shipping. | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Although this rule is rarely followed it is illegal to charge a credit card until the item has shipped. Not sure if they give a 24/48 hour processing leway here or not. I used to work at a small company that had an online store. If the product was backordered and we charged the card, customers called to complain. Perhaps you should suggest this to Icuiti. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Znith I hear you. I'm sitting here wondering why they've taken funds for goods that won't be shipping until up to a month later. I know US financial law can be different to the UK so I have given them the benefit of the doubt and asked for a specific shipping date. If it's more than a week I'm going to pull my order, get a refund and research alternative companies and products, albeit reluctantly. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 17 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
This needs to be read backwards for it to make sense, but you get the idea. -- Emails begin -- Dominic, Perhaps I didn't explain properly. The reason I am unable to give you an exact date is because I have none of the information you just requested. I don't know where any order is in the queue, I don't know what number we are up to, and I don't know how long it will take to reach any given point. I do know that our manufacturing plant is working overtime, and has been for weeks, to make VR920s as fast as humanly possible, and every day we ship the ones we have made. I'm not trying to be deliberately vague, the fact is I just don't know. Thank you, Todd R. Ferguson Technical Support Representative Icuiti Corporation 75 Town Centre Dr Suite H Rochester, NY 14623 585.359.5909 todd_ferguson-at-icuiti.com -----Original Message----- From: Dominic Burns [mailto:dburns-at-lovetek.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 10:02 AM To: Todd Ferguson Subject: Re: Web Contact Form Todd, Where am I in the queue, what number are you up to in the queue and how long has it taken to reach that number? Thank you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Ferguson" To: "Dominic Burns" Dominic Burns Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 2:55 PM Subject: RE: Web Contact Form Dominic, I have no way of determining when any individual order will ship. I can only tell you that we are actively shipping, and your order will be shipped out as soon as we get to it in the queue. Thank you, Todd R. Ferguson Technical Support Representative Icuiti Corporation 75 Town Centre Dr Suite H Rochester, NY 14623 585.359.5909 todd_ferguson-at-icuiti.com -----Original Message----- From: Dominic Burns [mailto:dburns-at-lovetek.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 9:02 AM To: Todd Ferguson Subject: Re: Web Contact Form Todd. Can you tell me when my order will ship please? Thank you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Ferguson" To: Dominic Burns Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: RE: Web Contact Form Dominic, Your card was charged as a preliminary step in shipping. We have begun shipping the VR920, and we will be fulfilling all orders in the sequence in which they were received. As soon as your order ships, you will receive tracking information in an email. Thank you, Todd R. Ferguson Technical Support Representative Icuiti Corporation 75 Town Centre Dr Suite H Rochester, NY 14623 585.359.5909 todd_ferguson-at-icuiti.com -- Emails end -- Is it my paranoid imagination or does Todd sound like he's about to go postal? | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
Sounds like you might have been pressing him a bit. D: Anyway. I got a positive response from Mr. Ferguson about my address-change thing. So now I'm just waiting for my new toy. Whee! | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 18 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Heh heh. Todd's probably reading this forum.... <gulp> | ||
| Andrew L. Ayers (Cr0sh) New member Username: Cr0sh Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
Dom: I love this tidbit from your email exchange: Perhaps I didn't explain properly. The reason I am unable to give you an exact date is because I have none of the information you just requested. I don't know where any order is in the queue, I don't know what number we are up to, and I don't know how long it will take to reach any given point. Well - that has to be the most asinine thing I have read in a while. How can a company that manufactures and sells a product not know this information? I mean, the supply chain would break down pretty quickly without this knowledge, I would think. Then there is this gem: I do know that our manufacturing plant is working overtime, and has been for weeks, to make VR920s as fast as humanly possible, and every day we ship the ones we have made. I'm not trying to be deliberately vague, the fact is I just don't know. I bolded the word "humanly" for a reason: there shouldn't be much in the way of humans manufacturing these things, unless they are using low-cost labor to assemble machine-finished components, which I admit is quite possible. I am glad I don't have a pre-order in myself. My policy about buying new products like this is "wait and see". Ultimately, HMDs are something I will probably continue to buy "second-hand", because the manufacturers never seem to be able to get them into regular stores. I only remember seeing one HMD in my life being sold at what I would consider a regular store: The VictorMaxx StuntMaster was sold by Best Buy for a little while (6 months?), then dropped from their floor, likely because of returns (not sure how many people kept theirs, there was always a few in the "open box" area at the store near me at the time). Until HMDs are popular enough to be sold like regular items by retailers like Best Buy or Fry's Electronics, it just isn't worth buying it direct, because your support (and probably the company as well) will likely disappear within a year or two. It doesn't even matter if it is a "high-end" HMD - most of the manufacturers of such HMDs in the 90's are gone, or only exist as a crufty website (General Reality comes to mind). Those that do still exist typically were the ones with large government/military contracts, like Kaiser Electro-Optics. I don't think we will really see any real marketing of HMDs to the public until either one of two things happen: 1. Resolution and FOV are boosted to much better offerings, or 2. A good quality HMD and tracker is made a part of a game console, or sold as an add-on by a console manufacturer. I had hope for the latter occurring when I saw the mocked-up advertisement cooked up for the Nintendo Revolution, now known as the Wii. Don't get me wrong, the Wiimote is a great step in the direction of making games more immersive, but an HMD would have taken the system over the top. On the same note, it would have pushed the price up to the level of a PS3, most likely, and given the number of morans who destroyed their TVs flinging the Wiimote around, who knows what would have happened had they been wearing an HMD? Even so, the run of Wii is nowhere near over yet, so such a peripheral might still be sold... | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 35 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Cr0sh. I thought the same thing when I read Todd's email. I mean, its the man's job to know things like this about a product his company is selling. He might as well just say he's under NDA and leave it at that. Also, the way he made it sound they are getting manufactured one at a time. I don't know much about manufacturing, but from what I heard it doesn't work like that. They would be getting entire production runs shipped in palettes by sea, so we are talking at least in the hundreds of units. How many pre-orders can they realistically have? I still believe they have a compelling product at a low price, but this company really needs to set some realistic expectations for its loyal customers. I don't mind waiting, say, another month, if I know for a fact it will ship that date. Right now I am not really confidant in the vague time-line I was given. But I think the end product will be worth the wait. And if these delays are actually going into quality assurance, than I'd rather wait and get a finished product then something that was rushed to the market. UPDATE: Ok, I finally got a UPS tracking number. The package hasn't shipped just yet, but at least I know the gears are moving in that direction. (Message edited by cybereality on June 14, 2007) | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 37 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
I hate to double-post, but I feel this warrants its own entry. Everyone should be happy to hear that Icuiti has finally shipped my VR920. At this point I almost feel bad for doubting Icuiti, however the string of delays was rather disheartening. But it appears that Icuiti is in fact currently shipping units. Anyway, my package is set to arrive on Tuesday and I will make it a point to write a prompt review for all you fence-sitters. Like everyone else here, I really hope this device was worth the wait. // cybereality | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 38 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
Finally my package has arrived!!!! I spent the better part of the afternoon toying with the device and trying to get my computer all configured right. I will have to put off the review until I can test out some of the supported games, but so far it has more or less met my expectations. Please enjoy these unboxing photos in the mean time: http://www.cybereality.com/trackback.php?section=vr920_unboxing // cybereality | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 19 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
@ dear Cybereality/Andres May I be the first to thank and hate you at the same time? Thanks, I hate you. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 39 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Dom Don't hate the player, hate the game. It's all good though, you can call me cyber. | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Dear Mr Cybereality, Where's the review? =) I'm impatiently waiting to hear all the pros and cons. Hurry up dang it LOL! | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 6 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
Add me to the list of people anxiously awaiting that review, Cybereality. :] | ||
| Stephen (Ste1700) New member Username: Ste1700 Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
I am as well impatiently waiting. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Junior Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 40 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hey guys! I know you all want to read the review, but I want to spend the time to give the product a thorough evaluation. I have the review about half done, but some technical issues with my PC are hindering the progress. I wouldn't want to post an incomplete review and give people the wrong idea. I also wanted to make sure I could test a good amount of the supported apps as well as other popular 3d games to get an idea of the compatibility. That being said I will likely be posting something either late tonight or during the weekend. Stay tuned. // cybereality | ||
| Luigi (Itou31) New member Username: Itou31 Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi, Good to hear you about the review. I'm new here and I'm very interested in these HMD. I have recently try the Z800 3DVisor, and the immersion impression is not what I expected. But I tested it about only a few minutes. So I don't know what it can render with games. I play Counter-Strike and UT2K4. That's why I look at the VR920. Did you purchase also the VR920 Immersive Eyeshield ? Well , I'm waiting for your review. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 42 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
I have posted the full review on my site so you guys can take a look: http://www.cybereality.com/trackback.php?section=vr920_review I've been very busy this week, so I didn't have as much time as I would have liked to play with the unit, but I think I gave it a good test drive. Overall I'd say I'm satisfied with the product, although it isn't as immersive as I would have liked. I also didn't get to test some of the big name titles like World of Warcraft or Half-Life2, so I will be updating the review in the coming weeks. But I think I gave it a fair review, showing both the pros and cons so others can make an informed purchase. // cybereality | ||
| Luigi (Itou31) New member Username: Itou31 Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the review, very informative. For the USB point, do you test with a laptop, because USB port don't deliver enough power. For the Z800, my laptop can't power the HMD correctly. I think to ask it directly to Icuiti. If needed, I could use a double USB connector as external 2,5" IDE-HDD use. Nevertheless, I think you have convinced me to purchase the VR920. Thanks. | ||
| Luigi (Itou31) New member Username: Itou31 Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for the review, very informative. For the USB point, do you test with a laptop, because USB port don't deliver enough power. For the Z800, my laptop can't power the HMD correctly. I think to ask it directly to Icuiti. If needed, I could use a double USB connector as external 2,5" IDE-HDD use. Nevertheless, I think you have convinced me to purchase the VR920. Thanks. | ||
| Andrew L. Ayers (Cr0sh) New member Username: Cr0sh Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
Cyber: Great review, and about what I expected as far as visual acuity and FOV. It was also interesting that you noted that even with the small FOV, for action FPS games and with dim lighting/darkness the FOV seemed larger - I think I noted this "effect" before when I used a Forte VFX-1 to play Duke Nukem 3D back in the day (the VFX-1 had a lower resolution, but about the same, or maybe slightly larger FOV - but still "tunnel vision"). I have also noticed this about the General Reality CE-200 HMD as well, which is probably more comparable to the VR920. Actually, for the price, it is an excellent deal - back in the day, the General Reality CE-200 cost way more than than the VR920, at over $1000.00 (US) and you didn't get an integrated 3DOF tracker (an external 3DOF tracker was available - for a few hundred more - though I imagine most people hooked up to a full 6DOF tracking system). If enough people get these and are able to hack a driver for *nix with nvidia drivers, I would definitely consider getting one. I would personally try writing a driver myself if I owned one, if I didn't have tons of other projects. Hopefully someone will hack one up - it sounds like this HMD would be really effective as an AR display (hmm - one of these HMDs connected to a Libretto with a wifi card might make for an interesting, albeit low-powered, AR setup)... Thanks for the great review! | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Yes good review, i will have mine july 2 from ups tracker. Cyber what is the mode for vr920 in the nvidia driver ? (L+R ?) maybe the realstereo (http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=38278) driver will work with, the problem for me it's the 8800 and c2d (, i will test with some beta drivers but i think to revert back to my 7600 gt and start with /onecpu in the boot.ini, awaiting a gigabyte sli card for put 8800 + 7600 non sli but i think i will not have it on the july 2 . | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 43 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Kapi, I have the nvidia stereo driver set to "DDC VGA glasses (IO Display)". These were the same settings from my pair of ELSA Revelators, but they seem to be fully compatible with the VR920. I didn't bother changing those settings since they worked fine out of box. You should have a dual output video card (most likely dual DVI ports) so you hook up your primary monitor to the first port and have the VR920 on the second port (via the DVI-VGA adaptor). When you want to view on the headset simply right-click the desktop and switch displays via the nvidia control panel. I don't know too much about the 8800 (I'll get one once Nvidia and MS work out all those driver issues with Dx10), but you will need to run the nvidia driver version 91.31 to get the stereo effect. | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Thanks Cyber, if they use DDC VGA i think kinddragon realstereo driver may be work for 8800 and Ati cards on some dx9 games (bf2142,flatout2,hl2 and more as on my previous link post), that's a good news, i will try before remove my 8800 if it don't work, i will try too with my laptop and x300 ati card. Another question, when you said "back of movie theater" (2d movie i think) is it like a 20" monitor at 2 meters ? or more ?, so if it's like a 17" a 4 meter that's not very good...but i buyed these for playing at first and you said that is ok for gaming. Thanks again. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 44 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Kapi, in terms of the virtual screen size, the advertised sizes can be somewhat misleading. Although the figure is technically correct, it really depends on the content and whether it is 3d or not. For example, the virtual screen appears bigger in a 3d game than it does on the windows desktop. So its hard to quantify a number. As a ballpark figure the virtual screen is about the same size as a 22" wide-screen monitor at around 1 meter. However when playing games in stereo 3d your eyes can focus past the screens and make the image appear larger than it actually is. When playing movies or other 2d content the image can sometimes appear small, but clearly much bigger than it actually is (the physical LCDs couldn't be more than an inch or so diagonal). So they do a good job of making the virtual picture appear larger, but you can only fool the mind so much. So if you are looking for the real big-screen experience, you're really only going to get that with a projector. But with an HMD you get a non-ghosting image, head-tracking and possible AR/mobile applications, etc. that can't be achieved with a projector. Plus, even with the falling prices, a 3d projector setup still costs around $1000 for the cheapest models. So its a give and take really. I hope that helps. | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Ok, but 22" at 1 meter is really big, i've got one 22" , i think i will happy with these (not with nvidia driver but...) :p thanks again for information about vr that's all i wanted to hear about it. , i will post a small advice when i will have it too. | ||
| Luigi (Itou31) New member Username: Itou31 Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
hi, As Todd from Icuiti answer me, there are no problem using the VR920 with laptop with USB 2.0 port. Good point that I have only laptops. Hum, a 22" is quite "small" at 1 meter for me, I used to play games with my 24" at 70 cm. For full immersion I used to play on a triple 19" with the Triplehead2go from Matrox. But these screen are not so partable for lan party, that why I think to the VR920 as screen replacement of my 17" laptop screen. Ok, hope theres will be more review on the VR920 from others users. | ||
| Devil Master (Devil_master) New member Username: Devil_master Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
I wonder if the VR920 can be hacked to increase the FOV... | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
"I wonder if the VR920 can be hacked to increase the FOV..." I wonder if the vr920 could be work with core2duo and nvidia 8xxx series before hacking the FOV, i think it's more important that it work on new configurations not on antiques PC....  | ||
| Devil Master (Devil_master) New member Username: Devil_master Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
I'll accept whatever improvement comes first. And since nVidia is all busy with Vista drivers (Vista go to hell!) I thought about increasing its performance on PCs where it already works. EDIT: By the way, in the nVidia forums I saw several references to "KindDragon's stereo driver". Can anyone tell me what that is? (Message edited by Devil Master on June 29, 2007) | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
It's a hook, wrapper sort of driver but not really, it work only for d3d9 games (not all but most of), it work for all gfx cards including Ati and 8800 on core2 duo you can download it here : http://dragon.bestavia.com/files/RealStereo03b.rar - create a file named yourgame.xml (.exe name) in /profiles directory, copy the one from flatout2.xml and rename it for exemple BF2142.xml (tweak it after), start openstereo, click Hook in the menu and start your game (you will see strange colors in presentations of some d3d game for anaglyph mode, it's sound like the hook is on), choose a lower resolution if it's hugly, best try was 1152x720 AAx2 in BF2142/CS:S/Flatout2 with my config 22" lcd monitor, put your glasses and go! go ! go ! You can edit mode anaglyph/DDC vga in the root config xml file, there is 4 modes. I will try with vr920 before remove my 8800 to replace it with my old 7600gt, it might work cause Cyber said it use "DDC Vga" and KindDragon can handle these mode, the bad thing is i couldn't play quake4 or maybe the next quake wars, but a lot of titles in d3d9 work well (tweak is not realtime too, you need to edit some xml files). BUT KINDDRAGON IS A GOD !!! Written to Nvidia today on their question answer page : "Dear Nvidia, when a stereo drivers will goes out even a beta ? i bought a 8800gts and an icuiti vr920 hmd 3d stereo device but your stereo driver was so old that i removed the 8800 and backed to my old 7600 gt, we need something to use 3d stereo devices, a lot of these are out now, your driver as one year old and don't run even on core2duo too, old pc for new devices this is a big problem....." (Message edited by kapi on June 29, 2007) | ||
| Devil Master (Devil_master) Junior Member Username: Devil_master Post Number: 21 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
Only Direct3D 9 games? Does this mean it won't work on games based on an older version of Direct3D? | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
mmmm may be, but i didn't tested old games; you should try cause i've only : flatout2* hl2;CSS* bf 2142* quake4 (don't work, maybe with an opengl to dx wrapper) fs2004 (didn't tried) guild wars (didn't tried) nfs carbon (didn't tried) il2 d3d9 mode* post your results if you try, thanks. *work very well May be i found another solution from http://www.scitechsoft.com/products/ent/gld_home.php it look promising but maybe not for dx games only opengl, i will try too. (Message edited by kapi on June 29, 2007) | ||
| Devil Master (Devil_master) Junior Member Username: Devil_master Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2006 Rating: N/A |
That's interesting. I cannot try it because both of my computers' video cards are supported by the original nVidia stereo drivers. Anyway, does it work with Vista too? | ||
| Stephen (Ste1700) New member Username: Ste1700 Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
Thank You, Cybereality, I have placed my order. I have a Vista laptop and a 64bit desktop with XP and XP 64 and am looking forward to testing out the product. | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi Cybereality; I read your page from a time until now, and must say it is great. I too, like Stephen, have been convinced by your review and purchased the 920; but have an small question about the tracking: cant you emulate mouse with it for games not modded for the 920? Best regards | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 45 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@decoril: I am not sure about emulating the mouse for headtracking. I imagine there is probably some way to hack it together, but it could never be fully supported without an official patch (for example, roll can't be done on the mouse). I'll have to check if theres a way to use GlovePIE to handle this. Might be a possibility. | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
That was exactly what i was thinking now xD, i also have a P5, but, i will ask icuiti for releasing a mouse emulation patch, for example for using with old games like X-Wing Alliance, hehe. | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Ok i had my vr920 today, as cyber said it's not too bad. Pro : -nice vision in stereo -work well with the adequate hardware -screen bright -light weight -sound and mic ok -Cool stereo effect no ghosting -Good immersion in the Dark Cons : -8800, core2duo and vista can't use it. -91.31 drivers with 7xxx crash sometimes. -head traking proprietary and don't detect well installed games that could use proprietary patchs. (impossible to tweak reg base) -Dead Pixels -Screen not square with strange contrast but for game is enought -Screen not so big as a real 22" more 20" at 1 meter. -No manual and no explanation to how setting glasses with clone mode screen+stereo etc... -No power Off -Not enought settings like each light per eyes, eyes light balancing is not enought and don't work very well. -Look like ocular glass bad finished, blur on some positions. -wrappers drivers don't work with 8800 so 8800 and beta nvidia drivers don't work too, 8800 suxx and don't work, i hate Nvidia..... So, it's a gadget like Revelator but for playing in some fps it's very hard but i've not enought tested, nvidia cursor crash when i use it..... Nvidia suxx in all ways... | ||
| Luigi (Itou31) New member Username: Itou31 Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Kapi, 62" at 9 feet, and then 22" at 1m and now 20" at 1m ! The screen shrinks more and more !! Now I'm looking my 24" dell at 1m and it's not so big. I have to go on with a 20" now !? not cool, I have ordered a VR920 and now begin to think that gadget is not so cool ! Ok, wait and see. The Z800 is not so bad, so the VR920 could not be worst !? | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
62" may be in their dreams, what i see is a 20 maxi at less than 1 meter maybe 50 cm, realstereo kinddragon utility worked only with HL2/CSS other games worked with anaglyph don't work, the device not sync well, so this game can be used in core2+8800 is the only title i could make working with that config, so it's not a gadget when you will test with flightsim 10 and headtracking it's a nice toy but screen is too small for my taste need to be in the dark for more immersion and for more realism core2duo+8800 would be cool for all details in new games, icuiti could make a wrapper like Edimentional made their own cause here the device is very hardware restricted. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 46 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Luigi, I will admit the virtual screen could be bigger, but its not that far off from other products in the price range. Apart from the Z800, most of the headsets on the consumer market are around 32 degrees FOV. I haven't got to try the Z800, but the VR920's virtual picture is comparable if not better than a lot of older headsets (i-glasses, sony glasstron, etc.). Plus, the 3d effect makes up for the relatively small screen size. Wait until you try it yourself. | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Thanks for all the info, it's helping me make a decision. I'd like to hear about some of your gaming experiences with the VR920 though. Do you feel somewhat 'in the game'? Is there some sense of immersion. Do you feel like you're just watching the game thru a pair of glasses with screens in front of your eyes? Crazy questions I know.. I sure wish I could try this thing so I don't end up ebaying it if I don't like it. | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
I just got mine today (err... yesterday) and I've been playing around with it. I'll post my thoughts later. First some experimentation is in order, though. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) New member Username: Dom Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Znith Mine is due to arrive on Thursday and I'll post my thoughts as and when I have any. Yeah, I know, I said I was going to cancel but I sent Todd a snotty ultimatum and he capitulated. Basically the unit's shipped but without the immersion shield which they're going to forward at their cost when it comes off back order. | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
Update: I just got GLTron under Linux sort-of working in stereo 3D by rendering every other frame from a slightly offset perspective. Turn on vertical sync and the headset's manual stereo mode, and it appears to work. Unfortunately the game doesn't render frames consistently in sync with the refresh rate, so it sometimes ends up in the wrong stereo mode. I might be able to fix that with a little work, though. It just doesn't render frames when nothing's moving (ie: paused). GLTron isn't my big worry, though. I think I'll try the open-source Quake 3 engine soon. Or better yet, a library to LD_RRELOAD that will work with (almost) all OpenGL games. Like that VRizer thing that's never updated anymore. Anyone have any news on the format of the head tracking information that's passed in by the USB? | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
"Do you feel somewhat 'in the game'? Is there some sense of immersion. Do you feel like you're just watching the game thru a pair of glasses with screens in front of your eyes?" Depending games, in Quake4, hl2, FSX it's great specially fsx due to headtracking, in bf2142 ut2004 stereo effect is not so good as previous named games, flatout2 is cool too but i will try real car sim soon, as you said it's a screen in front your eyes but it render well stereo, in FSX it was the best immersive i had with, otherwise screen is a little bit small when you put it and bigger after 5 minutes, it's a nice device for playing....but don't exept to have a 62" like they said on website it's false. Head Tracking test in HL2:CSS successfull but bug in the tracking configuration program, activation not displayed, it work well with enabling joystick view in hl2 config, but i would use it Quake4 too cause i saw in my windows joystick config the icuiti tracking i think it's already wrapped i will test with http://atzitznet.no-ip.org/Joy2Mouse3/index.html may be it will work for non supported games that use joystick to view. (Message edited by kapi on July 04, 2007) After more testing on headtracker, icuiti direct input emulation doesn't work like a joystick, too bad i asked them to modify that it will better than a patch for each games, joystick can handle 3 axes without problem and could be wrapped into mouse and it could be used in a lot of games to track head movements, especially in simulators games (cars, fps etc...) i agree a patch is better for having yaw axe but joy emul would be a big step... Fear Combat has the better 3d i saw it could hanle a better FOV the biggest i saw it look like a 22 wide screen at 50 centimeters, so depending game stereo the screen could change sizing, bf2142 for exemple has the worse stereo effect, very small and hugly. (Message edited by kapi on July 05, 2007) | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) Junior Member Username: Dom Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Just a quick heads up for anyone based in the UK thinking about buying one of these units. Mine arrived yesterday, along with an import duty of £87.63. So total price to pay is IRO £260 A bit naive of me not to consider it on the purchase - don't recall seeing anything on Icuiti's website either but it's not the most organised company in the world, so it's probably unreasonable of me to expect otherwise. On the whole my first impressions of this kit are not good. I will try and find time to write up my observations and post in the near future. | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Yes for me too, UPS asked 81 euros more, i already paid shipping when i preordered it look like shipping in France 180 euro ???? soon it will be more than the unit...... I call my Bank to opposite at my paiment. | ||
| Luigi (Itou31) New member Username: Itou31 Post Number: 6 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
OOops ! I'm in France too. So the tax is 81 euros ? OK but what is the 180 euros (for shipping) ? already paid 81$ for UPS expedited. Could you confirm me all these ? If I could I will change shipping address to A friend in US directly. Thanks. | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) Junior Member Username: Dom Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Just for clarity, the import costs break down like this: 87.63 pounds sterling 13.9 per cent duty [apparently based on weight and value] 17.5 per cent Value Added Tax [UK thing] £11 UPS 'deferment' fee [captive audience gouge] Plus the shipping fees charged by Icuiti.... I'm canceling the immersion shield and getting a refund - no way am I paying 30 notes for a bit of plastic. | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
No less than 180 sorry 84 euro + ship on the website don't remenber exactly cause it made 100 euro with 50$ preorder+shipping, but not so far ( approx 150) Dominic i turn my lights off and i've a free bit of plastic | ||
| Luigi (Itou31) New member Username: Itou31 Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
Ok, thanks Philippe, I think that is custom tax and UPS fee : + 19,6% TVA france (60€) + 4% custom fee (13€) + UPS fee --> 84 € Shipping to France is about 65€ for me 50$ preorder is deducted from the final price. So you're right : 150€ (tax and shipping). that is 50% of the VR920 price itself !!! Is there any reseller in Europe ? So Philippe, you are french ? cool. I'm in Toulouse. You said that the immersion could be 22" at 50cm, that is enough big ! Not as big as my triple head (http://www.3dchips-fr.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=97414&pagenumber=6&perpage=30#bas) (my pseudo is nah31). That is cool if icuiti could produce a joystick wrapper for the headtracking, that could increase their list of compatibility (joystick) games. (Message edited by itou31 on July 05, 2007) | ||
| Andrew L. Ayers (Cr0sh) New member Username: Cr0sh Post Number: 10 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
Luigi: That's a pretty nice triple-head setup you have going there - real similar to what I want to do, if I ever find the time (I am wanting such a setup under Linux - so I expect some pain in setup, which is why I plan to wait until I do a system upgrade - might as well package all the pain in one box, right?). I like how you took the bezels off to minimize the gaps. What video card(s) did you use? I don't speak French (aside from the bare little I learned in high school - which isn't much), so I couldn't read your explanations. I noticed a black box on the middle monitor on the rear, which was feeding signals into the two side monitors... I am just curious how you have things set up - my plan was to use two video cards - one dual head, and one single (most likely all nvidia based cards to ease setup under linux) - but you are driving all of this with a laptop, correct? So - things must be a little different. Anyhow - great setup, and I enjoyed the pictures! | ||
| Dominic Burns (Dom) Junior Member Username: Dom Post Number: 23 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
@CrOsh I have a tri-head setup here...sort of. I've got a 22" TFT and a 15" TFT running off a dual-head nVidia in my PC and a laptop which acts as the left-hand monitor [plus extra CPU cycles]. I use Synergy to connect the laptop and PC so I can use both computers and all three monitors with a single mouse and keyboard. Dunno if it's any good to you for what you want but I've found it to be excellent. http://synergy2.sourceforge.net/ | ||
| Andrew L. Ayers (Cr0sh) New member Username: Cr0sh Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
Dom: I played around briefly with an extra monitor to try something "weird" on a dual-head setup - just to see if it would work: I have a single-head AGP nvidia card on my *nix box, and I was thinking about dropping in a couple of old PCI VGA cards (S3 Tridents, IIRC) - but I didn't know if it was possible to run multiple different video drivers in X (ie, the S3 driver and the nvidia driver) - but I managed to get it to work (at least to the point where I thought it was feasible). Later, I scrounged a dual-head nVidia card, so only a single PCI card will be needed for the third display - I am planning on picking up three matched 19 or 20 inch LCD panels when I put it all together, but like I said, it is a future project. I am in the middle of a couple of other projects that I need to finish before I can decide to rebuild my workstation - I currently run Mandrake 10.1, and the machine is an AMD Sempron 3200 with 512 MB DDR (or something weird like that - cheap CPU, but waaaay better than the PII-366 I had prior to that). I plan on building a new machine with a newer OS install, but I don't want to do that until I have these other projects out of the way. It isn't a bad system performance-wise, so it may just form the core of the "new" system (although I may go "all the way" - I would like SATA drives in my new box). Thanks for the suggestion, though - I will look into it. | ||
| Luigi (Itou31) New member Username: Itou31 Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi all, Sorry to talk about the tri-screen setup here (out off topic !). @CrOsh : Thanks for the compliment. In fact I use the Triplehead2go from Matrox that split a virtual 3840x1024 resolution screen to 3 monitors. In that case you only need a single VGA output. As my laptop has a VGA output plus the laptop monitor, I can set the external virtual screen as primary (to play games) and the laptop screen as secondary for chatting or system monitoring. The laptop is a dell i9300 with a 7800goGTX. (http://forum.hardware.fr/forum2.php?config=hfr.inc&cat=15&subcat=448&post=21510&page=2&p=1&sondage=0&owntopic=0&trash=0&trash_post=0&print=1&numreponse=0"e_only=0&new=0&nojs=0#t391582) (http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/HardwarePeripheriques/Ecrans/topik-hanns-hc194d-sujet_27139_3.htm#t306918) But the card has not enough power for this setup, I think you need at least a 8800GTS or GTX to play correctly. Sorry for this Off-Topic. So back to the VR920 please. | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Luidgi i'm From Marseille ;p "Is there any reseller in Europe ?" I don't know you'd better ask this to icuiti directly " You said that the immersion could be 22" at 50cm, that is enough big ! " Yes but in some games like Fear, rFactor (very very great with headtracking) Quake4 is a little less but nice too, depending 3d engine i think, some are small and hugly like bf2142, depending on driver settings too, when you decrease F5 to reajust first plan the screen become smaller but your vision is ok , on some game they accept to use F6 to have a wider first plan stereo settings and F4 (separation) to the max that make the screen much more large as the 2d display, but not all games have that good settings without add eyestreighn, headaches or other bad things "Not as big as my triple head (http://www.3dchips-fr.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=97414&pagenumber=6&perpage=30#bas) " Yeah that's cool but really big i will have my 7600gt + 8800 gts soon on the same computer cause i will take a sli motherboard, bored to use only one card and remove other, one for screen and one for vr920 "That is cool if icuiti could produce a joystick wrapper for the headtracking, that could increase their list of compatibility (joystick) games." Yeah i told and explain that to devellopers team, their directinput joystick emulator does not act like a joystick for now may be soon it could be wrapped with mouse after that. | ||
| Stephen (Ste1700) New member Username: Ste1700 Post Number: 11 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
I still have not received my VR920. I wonder if the order is back logged. Does anyone know any more information? | ||
| PCJ (Pcj) New member Username: Pcj Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
'I still have not received my VR920. I wonder if the order is back logged. Does anyone know any more information?' Same here...its in backorder for about a week or 2 | ||
| Luigi (Itou31) New member Username: Itou31 Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hi all, Icuiti has some delay on receiving parts from their parts supplier. I've heard from Todd that could be 1 or 2 weeks from now. I've ordered mine on 30 june. So, wait and see. Are there some more reviews to "eat" while waiting ? (Message edited by itou31 on July 09, 2007) | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
That is a nice question; let it out pals, all of you that have grasped it before the rest-Tell the world your thoughts- every other one will be delighted by your self exoressed judgement xD sE,riously c´mon,, | ||
| Darshan Gayake (Darshan_ind) New member Username: Darshan_ind Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
Dear Friends Hello,my self Darshan and i am from INDIA,i have P4 system, Intel 845WN M.B.,256MB RAM SD with Nvidia GeForce 5200 256MB AGP8X card and i can enjoy good 3D with Anaglyph glasses,i also have Xforce 3D shutter glasses but as my monitor only support 85 Hrtz at 1024X768 i don't use them much. My question to you who have already used VR920 tell me at 60Hrtz is it not full of flicker???. | ||
| Darshan Gayake (Darshan_ind) New member Username: Darshan_ind Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
Dear Friends Hello,my self Darshan and i am from INDIA,i have P4 system, Intel 845WN M.B.,256MB RAM SD with Nvidia GeForce 5200 256MB AGP8X card and i can enjoy good 3D with Anaglyph glasses,i also have Xforce 3D shutter glasses but as my monitor only support 85 Hrtz at 1024X768 i don't use them much. My question to you who have already used VR920 tell me at 60Hrtz is it not full of flickers???. | ||
| Darshan Gayake (Darshan_ind) New member Username: Darshan_ind Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
Dear Friends, Hello,my self Darshan and i am from INDIA,i have P4 system, Intel 845WN M.B.,256MB RAM SD with Nvidia GeForce 5200 256MB AGP8X card and i can enjoy good 3D with Anaglyph glasses,i also have Xforce 3D shutter glasses but as my monitor only support 85 Hrtz at 1024X768 i don't use them much. My question to those who have already used VR920. can you please tell me at 60Hrtz is it not full of flickers???. | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Well, i dont have one yet but the working of this is the same that the majority of HDMs, that is slightly different from the shutterers, whith shutters yo have one monitor to display the images, and a pair of glasses that try to block the light from the outside one eye a time, synchronously with the two perspective images^ represented once at every refresh being synchronous with the refresh rate of the monitor by extension; With 3D HMDs including separate displays for each eye, yo can easyly add an image buffer to each display and mantain the last received frame at the display displayed until new image arrive; this solves in one step. the symmetrycality* refresh rate to image changing, that is the explanation-less or more ;) | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Darshan It's not like glasses like said Decoril , sreens are mounted on an helmet (small looking like more glasses than helmet) For reviews, i've now a DS4 Gigabyte N650i SLI, one pcX for 8800 gts and one for 7600 GT specially for VR920, i needed a lot of tweakings and one other install of XP, in the bios i need to choose what PCX port to start and After what winxp to go with, it work nice now but long to configure, i can't use these two cards at the same times cause they use different drivers with the same file names, i let one on each xp uninstalled (not deactivated cause it make some conflicts dunno why) but windows stopped to ask me for install at now, if i had an ati it will work together but no driver for stereo that's why i need this os switching, i use nhancer too in winxp to remove one core of my e6600 for gaming in 3d, i wait for NVIDIA may be one day they will make a driver who support core2duo and 8800 it would be great for last games like Flight Sim 10, it's nice with 8800 and with vr920 it's great but missing a lot of details, i don't care at now drivers for vista cause i hate these s**t but i would have a F*C**G DRIVERS FOR 3D GAMING NORMALLY WITH MY VR920 | ||
| Darshan Gayake (Darshan_ind) New member Username: Darshan_ind Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
Dear Friends Sorry for same multy posting, i think i have to some extent spoiled the page. sorry again that was due to some connectivity problems. i thought that is not uploaded thats why i tried 3 times @Moderator will you please erase same postings made by me in mistake ?? @Decoril Well still there is one doubt i have, as i never tried any HMD the question is "Add an image buffer to each display and mantain the last received frame at the display displayed until new image arrive;" then also at 60Hrtz.refresh rate there will be 60 frames out of which 30 for each display (as there are 2 disp. in HMD) it will still be effective 30Fps. only so there must be flickers!!! @Andres Hernandez, Can you please tell me your findings !! | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
well, its not the same a 30hrtz refresh rate than a a 30 frames per second movie, in fact in the cinema you have likely a 27 frames per second image and well did you experienced fickering in cinema?, this is the difference, the image stands displayed until new image arrives, you have in each display a refresh rate independent of the video input, then you can have a 30fps with i dont know the display refresh rate but it can be higher than the video input... i have to go to work, sorry | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 47 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Darshan: The VR920 has 2 separate LCD screens on the headset to produce a 3d image (like most HMDs). Each eye receives a different image. So you don't get the ghosting and flicker you do with shutter glasses (xforce 3d, edimential, etc). So each display (each eye) is a full 60hrtz. I found the image to be a lot easier to focus than shutterglasses and you can turn the stereo separation higher without eye-strain. I admit, the displays aren't perfect (as you've probably read in the review), but they are a step up from shutterglasses and/or anaglyph in many aspects. Especially in terms of flicker/ghosting. | ||
| Darshan Gayake (Darshan_ind) New member Username: Darshan_ind Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
@Decoril Thank you Very Much! @Andres Hernandez Frist of all Thank you very much for detailed explanation. Have you tried Stretegy games on VR920 ? what's your feeling ? Correction: Do you play stretegy games ?? I can suggest if you try following title 1)Dawn of War 2)Dawn of War - Dark Crusade it has great 3D and excellant object placement over screen and depths are real. you will get amezing feel from menu screen only as its menu are also competible (less/none abnormalities) or so as i found them. | ||
| Philippe Capitani (Kapi) New member Username: Kapi Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
New thread started on mtbs3d.com forum, this one don't change page and starting to be long to display... thread here http://mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=506 | ||
| PCJ (Pcj) New member Username: Pcj Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
Anybody receive their orders yet? It's been over a month for me. Icuiti states on their website: 'Due to high demand, orders for the VR920 may take 6-8 weeks to ship.' But is that the real reason? I think this is either a very small company or they are taking care of the interest of the big guys first, like the military. | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
Is that tinfoil hat comfy? I got mine already. Yes. They take a long time to ship. They are indeed a small company. Furthermore, their military-oriented tactical displays are another product entirely. http://www.tacticaleyewear.com/ | ||
| PCJ (Pcj) New member Username: Pcj Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
lol Haven't got my 'tinfoil hat' yet. So the consumer division IS small, and their main market is towards military, medical, industry and the like. | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
I've been coding since before midnight and it's now halfway through morning, but I have a program (for Linux! :D) that reads all the head motion tracking information from my VR920 and can calibrate it with some accuracy. Woohoo! Now I sleep. | ||
| Andrew L. Ayers (Cr0sh) New member Username: Cr0sh Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
Cliff/Mal: Although I don't own a VR920, this is great news! Will you be posting a link to the code? Maybe you should contact Icuiti and let them know (although - be careful here - maybe some people here have some ideas - some companies really *hate* it when you RE their products protocols)... Excellent job! | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
I'll post it eventually, I'm sure. Right now it's really messy, though. I've never actually done much in the way of driver development at all so it is a bit of a cheap hack. Basically I used a USB sniffer for Windows to log all the setup information, then replayed that verbatim (it's not much). Now I'm seeing what I can take out and still have it work. Thankfully it seems pretty simple so far, just being a case of claiming the appropriate interface and reading the data. Linux was giving me issues earlier because the USB HID driver likes to claim the head tracking interface but doesn't know what to do with it. The documentation for libusb leaves a bit to be desired so I wasn't sure what to do until a little while ago. (Where I found out that I can check to see if a driver is already claimed by the kernel, then detach it if it is.) So I don't want to be someone who gets stuck with the job of maintaining this. XD This is my first ever attempt at poking around directly with a USB interface and I think anyone who is familiar with this stuff already probably would find this to be a cakewalk. So here's what I can figure out from the data it sends. It'll repeatedly send lines like this... 02 02 00 c8 ff 4c 00 86 01 b5 00 d4 ff ea 00 c9 The first three bytes never seem to change, as well as the last two. Other than that, each pair of bytes is a 16 bit, signed little endian integer. And each pair of those make up an axis (roll/pitch/yaw). It's like the numbers define a point in space, as if it were floating outside the VR920 to define where an axis is pointing. This is kind of hard to describe, so I'll try to make a drawing later. Anyway, these numbers are look like they should be fed into an appropriate arcsin/arccos/arctan function to get a real angle, after finding values to define the min/max of each number by rolling it around in your hand. Then a zero should be set as an offset angle to those. This is, I think, how the real driver works, but there could be more to it than that. | ||
| Andrew L. Ayers (Cr0sh) New member Username: Cr0sh Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
Mal: Very interesting to read about! In a way, this sensor seems really similar to a 3DOF sensor I have that communicates over the serial port. You basically plug it in, set the port up (9600-8-N-1), and it spews data. I think you are on the right track - it probably doesn't do any more than what you have seen - leaving it to the software to interpret and use the results (as you noted, via conversion using the various arc??? functions). Even though I don't own one, it is heartening to see that someone has done something with it under Linux... | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
So the data's a bit more complex than I thought it was. It seems now like the 6 numbers are actually two 3D vectors (one going straight up, and one going off to the side and up to define the axes). I have no experience with 3DOF sensors or anything similar, so I'm kinda shooting in the dark right now. I need to, I think, figure out a matrix transformation that can transform something in an identical way to the orientation of the headset. That'd help out. I suck at this math, though, so... If I have x1, y1, z1, for a vector pointing in the direction of the headset's (+y direction) 'up' in 3D space and x2, y2, z2 pointing in the direction of the headset's 'left' in 3D space (-x direction) (it's actually right and up for some reason, but I can just subtract the up vector from it to get a flat line going to the left), I can figure out a front/back direction vector pretty easily by taking the cross product of the two. The question is: with these values, how can I construct a transformation matrix that will orient, say, a model to the same orientation? I'm sure this is something an instructor went over while I fell asleep in linear algebra class. XD The code's a bit messy right now, so I'm not really ready to upload it. I might stick it somewhere with just the USB interface and no math, though, so everyone else can play around with it. I'm sure some people out there are better at the math than I am. Oh, and a correction from earlier: I said that the last two numbers don't change, when it's actually just the last that doesn't change. | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 48 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
Nice work Mal! I haven't got to toy with the VR920 as much as I'd have liked, I'm jealous ;) Sounds like you are almost there if you've got the headsets facing vector. You will need to use matrix math for this. Its sounds hard at first, but its actually not that bad. Theres a good primer here: http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article695.asp All you need to do is create a rotation matrix from the axis created by the vectors you have. Then you can translate your camera's vector through the matrix to get it to match the headsets orientation. You can parse out the angles for each axis from that vector if you need it to return angles. | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
I'm no stranger to matrix math. I did pass a college linear algebra class (somehow) it's just this particular operation that confuses me a little. Especially because the information from the headset seems a little odd. I may have some other really, really good news, but I'll wait until I can actually say for sure before I tell it. :] | ||
| Darshan Gayake (Darshan_ind) New member Username: Darshan_ind Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
Dear all, Hi Sorry for going off topic I plan to purchase a new PC but afraid that I loose Stereo3D if I go for Core2Duo, I suspect if dual core is problem then AMD X2 (AM2 Dual Core Processors) might also not working with NVIDIA 91.31 Stereo Drivers 1. Can any one tell me weather there is problem of Dual Core or Only 8800 or only Dual Core+8800 2. What is ideal M.Board + Processor+ PCI card if I wish to continue enjoying stereo even after upgrade My present Config is P4 1.6 GHz+ Intel D 845WN M.B.+ Geforce 5200 256 MB AGP 8X } Thank you to all in advance!!!! | ||
| Neil Schneider (Chopper) New member Username: Chopper Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Well, the dual core AND the 8800 will pose a problem if you are using anything NVIDIA stereo driver based. mtbs3D.com has some beta stereo drivers that have had some success with the 8800 cards, but in a best case scenario, you are looking at turning a core off, and getting some stereo gameplay...FOR NOW! I have high hopes that NVIDIA will release something new. Another option is the iZ3D monitor that features dual and quad core support as well as full 8800 series support. Their drivers also support post processing effects too - very exciting stuff. There is some heated discussion here: http://mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=23 and some related links here: http://www.gmntv.net/index.php?action=Videos.view_video&video_id=1129 http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/a62830/meant-to-be-seen-ceo-neil-schneider.html http://www.custompc.co.uk/features/115766/imax-3d-for-pc-gamers-stereoscopic-3d-gaming.html?searchString=stereoscopic If you plan on using something that requires NVIDIA drivers, I recommend a 7600GT or 6800GT graphics card, and a multicore CPU on condition that you are prepared to turn the extra cores off during gameplay. Regards, Neil (Message edited by Chopper on July 27, 2007) | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 49 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
Mal: Try checking out this link on quaternions: http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article1095.asp I believe that the equation you need is on that page. (Message edited by cybereality on July 28, 2007) | ||
| Znith (Znith) New member Username: Znith Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2007 Rating: N/A |
Encase you guys didn't know there's now a dedicated site for the VR920. http://www.vr920.com/ And forums here. Not really any posts yet though. http://forums.vr920.com/ | ||
| Cliff Jolly (Mal) New member Username: Mal Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
Haha. Thanks, Cybereality. Funny thing is, you guys keep giving me advice right after I figure things out on my own. Here's what I did, managing to keep everything with my limited knowledge of matrix math: I took the two vectors, as given by the headset (one going straight up and the other going up left at a weird angle, but to the left perfectly), and got the cross product of those to get the other axis, which will be perpendicular to both. Then I got the cross product of the first vector, going straight up, and the new axis vector, to get the third axis vector. I normalized everything along the way and now I have unit vectors that define the VR920's local axes' alignments in 3D space. With this, I had enough information to make a simple matrix. You know, I've always hated math class, but the fact of the matter is that really using it is fun and interesting. XD So I now have a matrix that will transform any object exactly like the VR920 is oriented! Now I'd like to extract the yaw/pitch/roll values individually from that matrix, though. Oh, and here's that awesome news that I mentioned: I contacted Icuiti, asking for information I'd need to built a Linux driver and they responded, indicating that they want to have a conference call about it so we can see what support/feedback we can give each other. I'm pretty excited about this opportunity, needless to say. Thank you, Cr0sh, for recommending that I try to contact them! | ||
| Aaron (Thorr) New member Username: Thorr Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2007 Rating: N/A |
o reeaaaaly cough* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250155679830&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=015 cough* | ||
| Stephen (Ste1700) New member Username: Ste1700 Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
Man I would bid for it only if I didn't place my order already. I wish Icuiti would hurry up and send it to me. I placed my order back in June. Anybody else waiting that long? | ||
| Stephen (Ste1700) New member Username: Ste1700 Post Number: 13 Registered: 2-2007 Rating: N/A |
I just got word that my unit is shipping next week. Hip-Hip-Hurra | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hurray; i placed my order in may or june and it has been shipped two days ago ç-at last! | ||
| Andres Hernandez (Cybereality) Member Username: Cybereality Post Number: 50 Registered: 1-2007 Rating: N/A |
Lol Decoril! Thats incredible. | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
People, I started a Poll in Icuiti Forums for asking Icuiti to release a muse/joystick emulation, icuiti said that may be, but only if many people are asking for it. Lest figh for a usefull tracking. | ||
| PCJ (Pcj) New member Username: Pcj Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
I see others like myself had their orders seemingly ship on around the same date after a 2-3 month wait. well at least i got it. And satisfied with what I got. The fov is pretty good, being 1.5 larger than iglasses. Headtracking also works pretty good, but no mouse emulation, which means very small game list. | ||
| Luigi (Itou31) New member Username: Itou31 Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2007 Rating: N/A |
Hey, I received mine two week ago but have no time to test it. First thought : it's hot after 10 min ! | ||
| PCJ (Pcj) New member Username: Pcj Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
I have tested mine a little. I first used it with a few games, and found the colors way off. Sure It only took a few minutes to adjust, but this indicates these units were never tested prior to shipment! And the tracking system has no mouse emu and so only works for only a handful of games, and is not 'exstensive' as stated on the website. No word yet on any workable 3rd party tracking software such as GlovePIE, but they are working on it. So keep ya fingers crossed. | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
Do you read the icuiti forums? There is a pre release version of Glove PIE uploaded there three days ago totally working for VR920, i use it, and works like a charm, mouse, joystick, keyboard, you know, everything. Take a look there before posting that things, or if you were to post, post also in the icuiti forums for fighting for your rights and not only cry like a kid. | ||
| PCJ (Pcj) New member Username: Pcj Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
really decoril? put a link up here, then. I forgot to mention I also has the eye shield, but I personally don't think it is needed. The frames themselves do a good enough job, and you can also still see the keyboard unlike the eye shield, which blocks out everything. | ||
| decoril (Decoril) New member Username: Decoril Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2007 Rating: N/A |
It is not the final version and i dont know if i am supposed to share it anywhere, better i link you to the forum topic, you will need to register to access the VR920 specific forums in http://forums.vr920.com/ the download link is accesible when registered in the tracking forum topic http://forums.vr920.com/Topic128-8-1.aspx | ||
| PCJ (Pcj) New member Username: Pcj Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2007 Rating: N/A |
ok great. thanks decoril quick start guide for vr920pie: Click the 'testvr920 script' first, and THEN open it with the PIE command. |
